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Dangerous slide (Score:5, Interesting)
Flying into this country is becoming more and more of a hassle [utah.edu] and every time that I fly outside the US, it is apparent that the DHS is completely corrupting business and pleasure travel at the expense of our freedoms and economy.
If our government seriously thinks this is a viable option, then we have truly lost and the slide towards a fascist government will be complete. Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as criminals when they travel.
What I suspect will happen is that this is a trial idea floated to the media and will be explained away as saying "Oh, well.... we intended this to be used for transporting criminals" or some such nonsense like that. This idea is one of the most absurd and dangerous ideas I've heard from my government in a long time and it moves us dangerously close to a threshold that will destabilize this country.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
So TSA's main job now is justifying their job.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not completely sure why the fear level is so high in American culture, but I'd hazard to guess that it's the result of a combination of being too used to being too comfortable and too safe too much of the time - similar to tyrant's paranoia - and the fact that the media and the current administration both cultivate fear (for different reasons).
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Interesting)
The fear level in American culture is, as Noam Chomsky puts it, "off the scale."
The weird thing is that I don't feel afraid (and I travel frequently) and I don't know anyone who is really afraid. Where are all of these scared people ? Who are they ? More importantly, do we know that the above statement is really true, or is it just what we are told ?
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Where are all of these scared people?
They are in the government, and they are scared of getting their budget cut, so they keep a constant state of fear in motion to grease the wheels of spending and reduction of freedom.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not so much that people go around wearing body armor in case some evil foreign-seeming type terrorist blows himself up in the local Starbucks. It's that nobody really protests when government officials say that such a scenario is A) actually plausible and B) can be prevented if we throw out just a couple of tiny little freedoms or spend vast amounts of money on whatever it is they're trying to sell. I have quite a few American friends, and except for a few, most tell me "it's worth it if it prevents another 9/11" whenever we discuss things like the TSA's idiocy, or illegal wiretapping, or whatever it is that goes on at Gitmo, etc.
I would call that a form of fear, though I haven't had much sleep so I'm probably just not coming up with whatever the better word for it is.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish I could mod you up higher than 5. Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex, and we did not listen.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm right here. And I'm scared to death. Of my government.
Years ago, I laughed off an idea like this (tasers strapped to all air passengers). Surely, I said, no one would seriously consider this -- passengers would decline to travel rather than strap on one of these things.
How wrong I was. It seems that no idea is so evil that it can't find a proponent in my government. Fsck me.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to work with several guys from an Air National guard base.
One year they were way under budget, and the commander bought nearly 80 $50 leathermans for his ground crews. They didn't need them, each one was listed as a tool for the their tool boxes but in reality each tool was walked home and a gift to each of the guys.
you never come in under budget in a government job. doing so means next years budget will be slashed to that amount minus 10%.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Interesting)
Way back in the late 70's (or early 80's maybe, I forget) I and several of my friends set up a couple of Dobsonian telescopes in my grandmother's backyard. A half-hour or so later a police car pulls up and two cops get out and come around to the back to ask whats up?
They'd gotten calls that "Suspicious looking people" were setting up "mortars" aimed at the city.
Yes it really happened.
It turns out one of out neighbors had issues with my grandfather and was trying to use the cops as his private thugs. He came out pointing with the classic waving finger prattling on about hippies and pipe bombs and such.
There are a lot of unstable people out there and we are currently dealing with two political parties who both seem convinced that more govt. power is needed. It is now useful for govt. to use these people to shoehorn it's new policies into place.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Just remember, the only thing we have to fear is...
Um...
Well, is our government it seems.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is an example [wikipedia.org] of how fearless we were. This one [wikipedia.org] was approved by the same administration that said we have nothing to fear...
I dig the fangs and the blood-drenched knife. Where are my posters of Muslims with blood-drenched swords to keep me awake at night??
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
American culture doesn't have this level of fear. Nobody I know of has cut short travel plans because of the terrorism threat, though I imagine some people have. Nobody I know of thinks TSA is making air travel safer.
This whole fear thing has been manufactured by the government as an excuse to remove our civil liberties.
Don't ever EVER think that the American people are demanding it. We're not. This is being done TO us, not FOR us.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I stopped flying specifically because of the TSA restrictions, NOT the fear of terrorist hijackings and bombings. I refuse to be treated like cattle by the airlines and shoved into a tiny tin can after being accosted by glorified mall security guards for hours at a time. They're making it as inconvenient as humanly possible to fly in this country these days and frankly, if I need to travel I'll just drive. If I can't drive somewhere and a ship is infeasible then I really don't need to travel there.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody I know of has cut short travel plans because of the terrorism threat,
I suspect far more people cut travel plans short because of the TSA.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless the passengers are taken out by shock bracelets. Good job, TSA!
Your Agonizer, Komrade!! (Score:5, Interesting)
This technology is well-understood and widely available -- the canine shock collar first came into use in the 1950s. Today's models are highly refined, capable of variable shocks from "barely a tingle" to "FRY". (Note: as a professional dog trainer, this falls into my area of expertise.)
Setting aside the "Your agonizer, Komrade!" aspects for the moment... how much will this cost us in tax dollars? How many passengers are in the air at any one time, at a wild-assed guess about 50,000?? The most basic canine unit costs about $200, but that one won't be sufficiently reliable or securable for airline use, nor does it have enough range for a large terminal, so let's upgrade to the $700 unit (which has a range of up to one mile under ideal conditions). That's $35 million just to purchase the units.
[And the average lifespan, in daily use, is about 3 to 5 years, then it's off to The Collar Clinic, which charges about 30% of the value of the collar for repairs.]
As to hackability -- this has been a problem since way back; one of the design challenges was ensuring that the transmitter from one collar didn't make another go off by mistake. And there are only so many radio frequencies available, and that too is old tech.
If I were bent on causing chaos on a plane, I wouldn't even get on board myself. I'd hide a scanning transmitter in the luggage, which would start transmitting "FRY" across the spectrum at random intervals. Passengers would never know who was going to get shocked next, or when the next shock was coming. Wouldn't that do wonders for air travel! (Encrypted signal required, you say? Okay, I'll just set my trigger to hit the electronics AFTER the decryption point.)
These devices are generally safe, as they are designed to be painful yet harmless. But someone with a weak heart or epilepsy could be in big trouble -- on FRY the shock is similar to a weedburner-type electric fence; it'll put you right on your ass. Even on "tickle", what happens to someone wearing a pacemaker??
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Funny)
Wrong!
If they put a shock collar on me, I'd blow the damn plane up on general principle.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
That's right, keep the conspiracy flying.
I don't think the passengers had time to watch the news, call their families, and say goodbye.
Right. Because the recorded phone messages of flight attendants and some of the passengers are completely fabricated. The families made them up after the plane went down to gain sympathy.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Interesting)
What conspiracy ? Given a choice between shooting down a plane and killing everyone onboard or letting some lunatic ram it into a building, killing everyone onboard anyway and lots of people besides them, which would you choose ? Cold-hearted, perhaps, but also the path of least corpses.
BTW. Is the edit box in this section supposed to be postal stamp -sized ?
My work here is done (Score:5, Funny)
I found the problem with your post.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
And any pilot with half a brain knows that a cabin full of dead people is still better than a plane and building full of dead people.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
There will never be another hijacking of a plane with americans on it.
Exactly. That's why all four planes were hijacked in the same hour. Flight 93's reaction ("it's them or us") is now the default.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as criminals when they travel.
Why stop at travel? Why not just have everyone wear these all the time? You'd probably have to randomly test-shock people to deter tampering, but hey, such is the price you pay for Freedom. Er.. Liberty? No, what was it the US government always swore to defend, again?
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as animals when they travel.
There. Fixed that for you.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Insightful)
From an "evolutionary" standpoint,this is probably the beginning of the end for "big birds" and large long flights.
Fuel is an issue as well as alternative travel options,now we have DHS. I admire their enthusiasm but they lack in the brains dept.
I predict that the small aircraft industry and charter flights is gonna boom because of the added aggravation.
Big birds can't get any lighter without using toilet paper in place of aluminum and fuel costs are already killing the industry. I predict people will drive long distances now in silly little cars or motorcycles.Tents will replace campers.
People will chose comfort and peace of mind over cost and aggravation any day of the week.
So long 747,I might see you flying across oceans now and then,but your days are numbered.
I'm all for it (Score:4, Funny)
I don't understand why (Score:5, Insightful)
What I suspect will happen is that this is a trial idea floated to the media and will be explained away as saying
These kinds of proposals aren't random; by making ridiculous suggestions like this, they move the boundaries of what is acceptable. Compared to shock collars, some of the other things they come up with will seem tame now.
What I don't understand is why people go for this bullshit. Why is it the government's responsibility to make air travel safe? Who cares? I've been flying for nearly 40 years, and the same risks we have today existed all that time and were just as obvious. And except for the fact that in 2001, the air planes plowed in a big building in Manhattan, 9/11 seems not much different from any of the numerous other plane hijackings.
People should just not vote for any president or representative supporting such measures.
Shocking ! (Score:5, Funny)
Nothing to see here, move along (Score:5, Insightful)
Letter from Ruwaldt (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg2HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf [lamperdlesslethal.com]
Re:Nothing to see here, move along (Score:5, Funny)
Why did this fake story even get posted?
Because it's amusing? If only they had tagged it with a Monty-Python style foot and posted it to 'idle' so that we had some indication that it was silly instead of serious news...
Re:Nothing to see here, move along (Score:5, Informative)
TFS liks to a blog post which itself links to part of a letter (page two, so we don't even get to see the whole letter).
Well, WRT page 1, I used my superior hacking skills to alter the URL http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg2HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf [lamperdlesslethal.com] to http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg1HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf [lamperdlesslethal.com].
I don't think it is so far fetched for the FAA to want to know about this technology. Wanting to know about it doesn't necessarily mean they intend to mandate it for general use. In fact the letter mentions what occurred to me to be some obvious legitimate applications of the technology, such as prisoner transport.
The Onion (Score:5, Funny)
Hahaha, man.. The Onion has the best articles!
Hahaha... wait, wtf?!
%#$$%#@!!!
This helps terrorists if implemented (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh no (Score:5, Funny)
Instead of shocking people with a collar (Score:5, Funny)
...why not just show them Slashdot's new interface?
On a practical note. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
you're an airline pilot. A terrorist organization just used Semtex to destroy your reinforced door. I know my gut reaction is to look at a list of passengers and type in an id number to shock a specific individual.
As much as I don't like Tasers, it makes more sense to have a Taser gun than Taser wristbands. Those wristbands have to either be activated individually by number - not happening in an attack - or all at once - pissing everyone off.
For those that want to get outraged, this is an area where big business (airlines) can be your friends. The airlines won't allow this. Anything that makes flying more of a pain reduces their profits - even things like the new security fees on airline tickets reduce their profits. They aren't going to pay more money (I'm guessing at least $15-a-bracelet for the materials, location tag, and shock element considering that a Taser costs hundreds of dollars) to piss off customers.
So, this won't happen.
Re:On a practical note. . . (Score:4, Informative)
Flight crew would use them to punish passengers (Score:4, Insightful)
Freedom is really troublesome (Score:5, Insightful)
To authoritarian people, the very idea that the masses have freedom is a scary.
Whether true or not, this story shows a very real reaction some people have to idea that they can't control other people. Freedom is, amongst other things, is also based on a "trust." At some point, a free people will rebel against an increasingly oppressive government. I think we are seeing the U.S. government racing to reach a state of control and surveillance BEFORE people start to rebel en mass.
The race is to get to a point where there is no way the people can rebel without losing their jobs, savings, houses, lives, etc. This is why students and kids protest, because they don't have a life's work of savings to lose.
The irony is that the corrupt powers that be had better fix the economy pretty damn quickly, as people with a lot to lose are easier to control that people who have lost everything. Once we have a major depression, the ideologies of abortion, gun control, "family values," become second to jobs.
If a mob of 1,000,000 people march on the white house with pitchforks and tourches demanding justice, there will be justice.
Re:Freedom is really troublesome (Score:4, Informative)
If a mob of 1,000,000 people march on the white house with pitchforks and tourches demanding justice, there will be justice.
No, they will be labeled a "Violent Mob", and the Anti-Riot control Sonic weapon vehicles can be deployed to drive away the protesters. Or the National Guard, Military etc.
You Americans may have the right to unseat an unwanted government via a second revolution, but the Government also has the right and duty to preserve the peace and can use any means required to stop a violent protest can't it?. I have never understood that dichotomy personally speaking
To me it looks like the US is sliding slowly down the path to fascism of a sort, all in the name of supporting corporate profits and the continuation of the current government. Its kind of frightening to watch actually, but I hope it all turns out well :P
Terrible extrapolation of facts (Score:5, Informative)
There are no "plans for the device" on the part of DHS. The idea for outfitting passengers has originated from the company trying to sell them, Lamperd FTS. Why? Because selling tens of millions of these bad boys is a lot more exciting to the business than selling a few thousand.
By reading the response from the DHS (http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg1HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf [lamperdlesslethal.com]) you'll see exactly what they think of the idea. DHS asks for a written proposal, and outlines the areas of interest for them, which are almost solely around prisoner detention and transport. The official also finds it "conceivable to envision a use to improve air security, on passenger planes," but the tone of the letter effectively takes Lamperd's pie in the sky multi-billion dollar contract off the table. Lamperd sends DHS a brochure with their cockamamie idea, DHS responds saying "we can see how you got there. Now here's how *we* would use it, so send us a proposal that focuses on our needs."
That's it. End of story. Yet some kook at the Washington Times puts two and two together and gets ZOMG THE BUSHNAZIS WANT TO PUT SHOCK COLLARS ON US!!!11!!!!ONE!!1!!
Re:How much is a pilot license? (Score:5, Insightful)
That is just it... I can load just about anything I want into my private plane and fly anywhere in the US without having to go through security, without having to provide biometric ID, without having to take my shoes off, without having to wear shock collars, etc...etc...etc...
That is why this whole thing is security theatre.
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Funny)
No, TSA-mandated 12" exploding buttplugs would be scary. (which is what it'll take for the public to wake up)
Shock collar boarding passes are merely funny.
Re:WTF? (Score:4, Funny)
I dunno... exploding 12" butt plugs sound funny to me.