Posted by
samzenpus
on Mon Dec 01, 2008 06:19 PM
from the it's-a-little-dry dept.
jage2 writes "Researchers say they have located the world's oldest stash of marijuana in a tomb in a remote part of China.
The cache of cannabis is about 2,700 years old and was clearly 'cultivated for psychoactive purposes,' rather than as fibre for clothing, or as food, says a research paper in the Journal of Experimental Botany.
The 789 grams of dried cannabis was buried alongside a light-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian man, likely a shaman of the Gushi culture, near Turpan in northwestern China."
Why those mongols kept invading till someone built that big nasty wall up between backyards. I can see it now:
Mongol: Pssst, you got a yuan bag? Wall Guard: Oy! Get out of here, we don't do that at this tower, try two doors down. Mongol: Pssst, is Fey Shong Wei about? He always hooks me up. Wall Guard: I said piss off! I got my boss coming for an inspection in a bit. Mongol: Fine fine, sissy girly man, no wonder you need this big wall to keep out a few baked horsemen! Wall Guard: Get back to your tent you damned hippie! And get a REAL job! And a HAIRCUT! And have a SHOWER!
The 18 researchers, most of them based in China, subjected the cannabis to a battery of tests, including carbon dating and genetic analysis. Scientists also tried to germinate 100 of the seeds found in the cache, without success.
The marijuana was found to have a relatively high content of THC, the main active ingredient in cannabis, but the sample was too old to determine a precise percentage.
Oh yes, the tests included genetic testing and radio-carbon dating. Good to point that out. I'll just speculate what other tests you could do with 2700 year old weed. On a perhaps related note, since they couldn't use spectroscopy or whatever to determine the precise percentage of THC, I wonder what technique they used to come up with the qualitative measurement "relatively high".
I wonder what technique they used to come up with the qualitative measurement "relatively high".
A highometer was used to run a standard highometric analysis on a scale from "not" to "curiously." On the standard scale, "relatively" is the seventh mark on the indicator.
You certainly wouldn't be able to tell by smoking it, all the THC would have degraded by then back into precursor cannabinoids. They likely would have measured the amount of residual compounds leftover from broken-down pot.
The tomb also contained bridles, archery equipment and a harp...
The ancient equivalent of car keys, a gun, and an electric guitar. Considering how much weed there was I say this was probably an ancient rock star and not a shaman.
Conversely, some rock stars are shaman-like figures for modern times. I'm picturing guys like Jimi Hendrix, Robert Plant, Iggy Pop, Peter Gabriel while in Genesis, David Byrne while in The Talking Heads (particularly in albums such as Remain In Light and Speaking In Tongues), Ian Astbury while in The Cult, Wayne Coyne of The Flaming Lips, most certainly extreme characters like GG Allin, or Wendy O. Williams of The Plasmatics. I'd even go out on a limb and place Fredd
Conversely, some rock stars are shaman-like figures for modern times. I'm picturing guys like Jimi Hendrix, Robert Plant, Iggy Pop, Peter Gabriel while in Genesis, David Byrne while in The Talking Heads (particularly in albums such as Remain In Light and Speaking In Tongues), Ian Astbury while in The Cult, Wayne Coyne of The Flaming Lips, most certainly extreme characters like GG Allin, or Wendy O. Williams of The Plasmatics. I'd even go out on a limb and place Freddie Mercury on my list.
It is amusing to note the overwhelmingly strong bias toward "ritual and/or religious" explanations for just about anything we dig up about ancient societies. It makes you wonder what the future will make of us.
At the end of "The Golden Bough" there is a piece on comparison between magic, religion and science.
Some quotes:
In magic man depends on his own strength to meet the difficulties and dangers that beset him on every side. He believes in a certain established order of nature on which he can surely count, and which he can manipulate for his own ends.
When he discovers his mistake, when he recognises sadly that both the order of nature which he had assumed and the control which he had believed himself to exercise
But as time goes on this explanation in its turn proves to be unsatisfactory. For it assumes that the succession of natural events is not determined by immutable laws, but is to some extent variable and irregular, and this assumption is not borne out by closer observation. On the contrary, the more we scrutinise that succession the more we are struck by the rigid uniformity, the punctual precision with which, wherever we can follow them, the operations of nature are carried on.
The universe runs on some punctual precision? Sort of like predicting the weather -- oh wait, no. More like quantum mech-- hm. No, not there, either.
In fact, if there's one thing we've learned about the nature of reality through science in the past 100 years, it's that we *don't* live in Newton's clock-work universe. There is no "punctual precision". We live in space-time relativity and quantum uncertainty. Frazier's description of the linear evolution of human thought turns out to be wrong.
I wholly agree with your characterization of the persistence of the grossest superstition to the present day(in fairness, Frazier described "acuter" and "keener" minds as progressing, which is probably accurate; but they sure as hell haven't managed to drag the rest along with them).
I want to note, though, that probabilistic is not clockwork; but it is not arbitrary. A fair die's outcome cannot be predicted; but its behavior is precisely regular. The old Newtonian dream of a perfectly predictable billiar
I want to note, though, that probabilistic is not clockwork; but it is not arbitrary. A fair die's outcome cannot be predicted; but its behavior is precisely regular. The old Newtonian dream of a perfectly predictable billiards universe is nonsense; but the probabilistic phenomena around us seem overwhelmingly to be statistically predictable, rather than merely arbitrary.
Yes, but this belies the radical shift that Einsteinian physics and and quantum physics really was in the world of science. No one is claiming that it is arbitrary. It essentially changed the metaphysical foundation that science had been based on since about the time of Newton. Many scientists at the time refused to accept these theories; they still clung to luminiferous aether and clockwork universe theories, until they all died out and the new school took over completely, in about the 1950s.
You misconstrue my logic. Nowhere have I said that imperceptible phenomena does not exist.
What I am saying is that anybody who interacts with something they cannot perceive, be they germs or spirits, is essentially practicing ritual. They have no way of knowing whether or not their actions will bring about the intended results, because they have no way to perceive the phenomenon they purport to influence. How can this be different from a magic ritual?
Now, some rationalist might jump in at this point an
"The 789 grams of dried cannabis was buried alongside a light-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian man, likely a shaman of the Gushi culture, near Turpan in northwestern China. The man had a very large smile on his face."
"Researchers needed about 10 months to cut red tape barring the transfer of the cannabis to England from China, Russo said."
This is an obscene amount of time for research related materials to have to wait...they should have just stuffed it into some teething rings and imported them through normal distribution channels.
They could have talked with the CIA about it. If they can smuggle tons of heroin out of Southeast Asia, a mere pound of grass shouldn't be a problem...
Not that I know anything about... *cough* yes, we'll just tick the 'Anonymous' box, yes, there we are.
In the Chicago area, for 'Pretty Good' cannabis, you're talking between $200 and $400 per ounce, conservatively. 789 grams is approximately 27.8 ounces, that's $5,400-$10,800 total value, conservative estimate, depending on quality relative to today's standards.
Totally! 789g of Budz would have been awesome to take over into the afterlife, unfortunately this guy was obviously screwed over by his dealer.
In other news, oldest munchies stash found!
Well, that certainly explains Idle (Score:4, Funny)
You'd have to be high to think it was a good addition.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I WAS high until you killed the buzz. :P
Also explains... (Score:5, Funny)
Mongol: Pssst, you got a yuan bag?
Wall Guard: Oy! Get out of here, we don't do that at this tower, try two doors down.
Mongol: Pssst, is Fey Shong Wei about? He always hooks me up.
Wall Guard: I said piss off! I got my boss coming for an inspection in a bit.
Mongol: Fine fine, sissy girly man, no wonder you need this big wall to keep out a few baked horsemen!
Wall Guard: Get back to your tent you damned hippie! And get a REAL job! And a HAIRCUT! And have a SHOWER!
Summary is wrong (Score:5, Funny)
After researchers tested the stash it seemed seemed like 2700 years had passed. In reality it was only 42 minutes.
Re:Summary is wrong (Score:5, Funny)
After researchers tested the stash it seemed seemed like 2700 years had passed. In reality it was only 42 minutes.
Sources also say that after testing the researchers' hands "looked awesome."
ObSimpsons (Score:4, Funny)
> Sources also say that after testing the researchers' hands "looked awesome."
They call them fingers, but I've never seen them fing.
Oh, wait. There they go.
Re: (Score:2)
In the immortal words of Chech, and Chong, "Far Out Man."
Re:Summary is wrong (Score:5, Funny)
Sun Tzu: "Pssst...hey man, it's Sun Tzu, open the door, I got the stuff..."
Chong: "Sun? Sun Tzu? Sun's not here."
Sun Tzu: "No man, I'm Sun!! Now will you open the door, I got the stuff!!"
Chong: "Sun?"
Sun Tzu: "Yes, it's Sun!!!"
Chong: "Sun's not here!!"
-- several iterations later --
Sun Tzu: "It's Sun!!! S-U-N!!! Now will you open the goddamned door?!?!?!"
Chong: "Oh, sure." -- opens door --
Sun Tzu: "What the hell was that about?"
Chong: "Well, you had this note written on the table: 'If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him.'"
Sun Tzu: "Damn, I must've really high when I wrote that..."
Well there goes my idea... (Score:4, Interesting)
From TFA: "Scientists also tried to germinate 100 of the seeds found in the cache, without success."
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Hey man, if they can bring back a mammoth, they can bring back a pot plant.
Re: (Score:2)
Blue eyes? (Score:2, Funny)
How did they know he had blue eyes? Now, bloodshot, I would understand.
Holy Smoke! (Score:2)
Uh-huh. (Score:5, Funny)
Oh yes, the tests included genetic testing and radio-carbon dating. Good to point that out. I'll just speculate what other tests you could do with 2700 year old weed. On a perhaps related note, since they couldn't use spectroscopy or whatever to determine the precise percentage of THC, I wonder what technique they used to come up with the qualitative measurement "relatively high".
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I'm surprised the editors missed that typo.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
A highometer was used to run a standard highometric analysis on a scale from "not" to "curiously." On the standard scale, "relatively" is the seventh mark on the indicator.
Re: (Score:2)
Bioassays, perhaps.
You certainly wouldn't be able to tell by smoking it, all the THC would have degraded by then back into precursor cannabinoids. They likely would have measured the amount of residual compounds leftover from broken-down pot.
Re: (Score:2)
They smoked it and got "relatively high"
Re: (Score:2)
This probably needs more testing.
Re: (Score:2)
The THC count would do that.
I mean, your trying really, really hard to imply they smoked it. Just failing, in an manner Epic.
In a related anouncement.... (Score:5, Funny)
Keith Richards was greatly relieved it was finally found although he can't recall being in China at the time.
Intersting Tomb Contents (Score:5, Funny)
The tomb also contained bridles, archery equipment and a harp...
The ancient equivalent of car keys, a gun, and an electric guitar.
Considering how much weed there was I say this was
probably an ancient rock star and not a shaman.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Shamans were the rock stars of the day.
Re: (Score:2)
Shamans were the rock stars of the day.
Conversely, some rock stars are shaman-like figures for modern times. I'm picturing guys like Jimi Hendrix, Robert Plant, Iggy Pop, Peter Gabriel while in Genesis, David Byrne while in The Talking Heads (particularly in albums such as Remain In Light and Speaking In Tongues), Ian Astbury while in The Cult, Wayne Coyne of The Flaming Lips, most certainly extreme characters like GG Allin, or Wendy O. Williams of The Plasmatics. I'd even go out on a limb and place Fredd
Re: (Score:2)
But you missed the
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It would smell like victory.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I'm pretty sure future societies will at long last recognize our vast numbers of 16 year old shamans.
Re: (Score:2)
That's not a "fertility symbol", it's ur-Porn.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
At the end of "The Golden Bough" there is a piece on comparison between magic, religion and science.
Some quotes:
In magic man depends on his own strength to meet the difficulties and dangers that beset him on every side. He believes in a certain established order of nature on which he can surely count, and which he can manipulate for his own ends.
When he discovers his mistake, when he recognises sadly that both the order of nature which he had assumed and the control which he had believed himself to exercise
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But as time goes on this explanation in its turn proves to be unsatisfactory. For it assumes that the succession of natural events is not determined by immutable laws, but is to some extent variable and irregular, and this assumption is not borne out by closer observation. On the contrary, the more we scrutinise that succession the more we are struck by the rigid uniformity, the punctual precision with which, wherever we can follow them, the operations of nature are carried on.
The universe runs on some punctual precision? Sort of like predicting the weather -- oh wait, no. More like quantum mech-- hm. No, not there, either.
In fact, if there's one thing we've learned about the nature of reality through science in the past 100 years, it's that we *don't* live in Newton's clock-work universe. There is no "punctual precision". We live in space-time relativity and quantum uncertainty. Frazier's description of the linear evolution of human thought turns out to be wrong.
Most anthropo
Re: (Score:2)
I want to note, though, that probabilistic is not clockwork; but it is not arbitrary. A fair die's outcome cannot be predicted; but its behavior is precisely regular. The old Newtonian dream of a perfectly predictable billiar
Re: (Score:2)
I want to note, though, that probabilistic is not clockwork; but it is not arbitrary. A fair die's outcome cannot be predicted; but its behavior is precisely regular. The old Newtonian dream of a perfectly predictable billiards universe is nonsense; but the probabilistic phenomena around us seem overwhelmingly to be statistically predictable, rather than merely arbitrary.
Yes, but this belies the radical shift that Einsteinian physics and and quantum physics really was in the world of science. No one is claiming that it is arbitrary. It essentially changed the metaphysical foundation that science had been based on since about the time of Newton. Many scientists at the time refused to accept these theories; they still clung to luminiferous aether and clockwork universe theories, until they all died out and the new school took over completely, in about the 1950s.
To say that
Re: (Score:2)
"...the punctual precision with which, wherever we can follow them, the operations of nature are carried on...."
He is referring to repeatability. i.e. falsifiable tests.
Effectively this is the precursor to the scientific method.
Re: (Score:2)
He is referring to repeatability. i.e. falsifiable tests.
Are you sure? Could you provide a reference, please?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
What I am saying is that anybody who interacts with something they cannot perceive, be they germs or spirits, is essentially practicing ritual. They have no way of knowing whether or not their actions will bring about the intended results, because they have no way to perceive the phenomenon they purport to influence. How can this be different from a magic ritual?
Now, some rationalist might jump in at this point an
And here's the last song he played... (Score:2)
I was gonna pillage you,
But I got high.
I was gonna sack your village too,
But I got high.
I'm stuck here in this tomb, and I know why.
Because I got high, because I got high, because I got hi-igh.
Re: (Score:2)
missing from the summary (Score:3, Funny)
"The 789 grams of dried cannabis was buried alongside a light-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian man, likely a shaman of the Gushi culture, near Turpan in northwestern China. The man had a very large smile on his face."
Red Tape (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
780 grams? That's not mucking about! (Score:3, Funny)
Well Well, Excellent. (Score:2)
So my only question is was this Bill or Ted? Time Travel and George Carlin come to mind :)
And look what happened to the guy who smoked that (Score:5, Funny)
He's dead!
Take note kids.
Hey man.... (Score:5, Funny)
Street value (Score:2, Informative)
In the Chicago area, for 'Pretty Good' cannabis, you're talking between $200 and $400 per ounce, conservatively. 789 grams is approximately 27.8 ounces, that's $5,400-$10,800 total value, conservative estimate, depending on quality relative to today's standards.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And by "blond part" I assume you mean Bill S. Preston Esquire. Jesus... uncultured swine around here.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)