Missouri Car Dealer To Give Away AK-47 With New TruckComments:66
Posted by
samzenpus
on Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:35 AM
from the forget-the-carfax dept.
Frizbie writes "Max Motors in Butler, Missouri is giving away free AK-47 assault rifles with the purchase of a new truck. The promotion starts in the beginning of August. The video of CNN's coverage of the promotion shows Mark Muller being interviewed by a woman who was taking a very strong stand against what Muller had to say; however, it seems to have backfired pretty heavily."
Heh.
I find your perspective amusing. My girl just answered the interviewer's key question regarding the mix of "God" and "guns" in the dealership slogan.
"Because he believes in God to save his soul, guns to save his home, and guts to actually use them."
Selling an AK for self/home defense is kind of misguided. The slug from an AK will cut through interior walls with relative ease and remain intact even after several trajectory altering contacts. Not a caliber of choice for indoor use.
If you are outside, shooting in, it's great though.
Horses for courses... It would be a bad choice for apartment dwellers. But on a country home on 12 acres (like he mentioned in the video) it is a good choice. And frangible rounds are helpful in dense environments.
Also many people get stuck on how the gun looks... A CZ-52 pistol has far more penetration than an AR-15, but the AR-15 gets all the bad press.
Actually, he has 1,200 acres. It's a ranch and I must say it's a really nice one. I've been there numerous times and even shot a few rifles with Mr. Muller. He is one of the most upstanding individuals I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.
You're looking for more of something like a 12 gauge slug. You don't need to sling a small round a long range, you're looking for the short range stopping power. If the body armor does stop it, they'll be flat on their backs regardless. Then again, any decent bullet hitting any body armor is going to really hurt, so it's only really good for saving their lives, not pretending that they weren't shot at.
Here's some approximate effective ranges of various ammunition.
If the body armor does stop it, they'll be flat on their backs regardless.
conservation of energy does mean that it won't gain energy in flight, so it will not impact with any more energy than what the gun put into the shooter first (except for a recoiless, or mounted gun.) With a person running at you, unless they are too light to shoot the same load without being knocked on their ass, the bullet wont either. So yeah unleash a double barrel 10 gauge and you will both be sitting on you asses, assuming both hit the target. Your going to want something with penetration (small ca
You're missing the fact that the shooter of the slug is accelerating it over the 2ft length of the shotgun barrel, and the body armor is stopping it in a few inches.
A shotgun can easily put an unwary shooter off-balance, so it would do worse to the target. Knocking them down might be marginal, but they'll be severely hurting and knocked around.
Myth busters did bust this myth twice as well [mythbustersresults.com] The difference in 2 feet vs 3in would be 12 milliseconds instead of 1.5 ms. Since it is still the same amount of energy hitting both the gun holder, and the thief. So barring a outside force they would each reach the same speed, the only difference is the shooter would have 1/8th of the acceleration rate, but for 8 times as long of period of time, with both eventually reaching the same final velocity change. So the shooter has a extra 11 milliseconds to countera
I can understand the 7.26x39 for the AK as a typo... but where did you get 7.62x33 for the 30-06? Try 7.52x51mm. Basically, a longer cartridge will have longer range and a bigger kick.
Nothing wrong with the SKS. Shoots the same 7.62x39mm round as the AK-47 and it's typically more accurate (though calling EITHER rifle "accurate" is laughable). Both are very, very reliable too. The AK-47 just buys you select fire (though all civilian versions of the gun sold are semi-auto only anyways) and higher magazine capacity (as well as a detachable magazine). There are aftermarket modifications though that add 30-rnd detachable mags to the SKS making it pretty close to the AK.
Not all of those rifles are manufactured overseas. In fact, there is a mandated % of American parts even on imported ones.
Free AR-15's from toyota? I doubt it, they wouldn't pick such a finicky firearm to give people. There is a reason the ak is still around after all these decades. Its well designed for its task.
Yeah I agree why would someone get offended about an AK47 giveaway with vehicle purchase. I would be kind of offended that you had to choose an AK since the AK is not that accurate, would prefer a CETME or maybe m14, but if it is a voucher I guess you could use it towards the purchase of whatever you wanted.
I am so glad I live in the state of Texas where we still have the right to defend ourselves. The news anchor was a bit over the top on her line of questioning and was not being fair and balanced. Who
Her job is not to deliver news to you, even though that's what she would tell you if asked. Her job is to get ratings. She is doing that by generating controversy. She interviewed a car dealer who is running a promotion involving legal but scary-sounding weapons not because it directly affects a national audience, but because she could exploit it.
There might be a picture (as the linked story says) of an AK-47 assault rifle on that page, but (even aside from the mentioned fact that it's a voucher, not a gun, that buyers get) they almost certainly won't be buying an assault rifle, just a lookalike. Unless the dealer is somehow magically and illegally supplying them all with selective-fire capability. Pretty tough (expensive, long process) for ordinary Americans to buy any guns with selective (or plain full-auto) guns; those are only for the gub'mint,
That's not really a "real" AK though. It's a clone version made as a semi-automatic. You CAN indeed buy a "real" select fire AK though if you want. You can buy a real M16 if you want, or a registered full-auto sear kit for an AR15 that converts it to selective fire mode.
It's not a well known fact, but in most US states as long as it was made prior to 1986 it's legal for a civilian to purchase a selective fire/full auto gun (ie, a machine gun). It just takes a background check, notification to your local chief law enforcement officer (sheriff or chief of police), and a special tax stamp from the BATF for each one (it's $300 IIRC). Not many people bother though because they cost a fortune. Not only to shoot (full auto fire is an expensive waste of ammo for fun shooting at the range), but also for the gun itself. $3000 minimum for a junker WW2 relic that barely functions, to upwards of $10,000 for a decent gun. Even just the registered full auto sear for an AR-15 (which is literally a small part that any machinist could churn out of a block of metal for $50) will run you $8000 and up just because finding a part to LEGALLY convert your brand new AR15 rifle into a machine gun is worth that much to people.
Even just the registered full auto sear for an AR-15 (which is literally a small part that any machinist could churn out of a block of metal for $50) will run you $8000 and up just because finding a part to LEGALLY convert your brand new AR15 rifle into a machine gun is worth that much to people.
And isn't that just a kick in the nuts? A gun toting thug that intends to kill rival gang members or commit armed robbery doesn't give a rats ass if he gets an extra charge for having an illegal class III weapon, and has no problem with putting an illegally fabricated auto sear into a gun or making any other illegal modification to a firearm, all he needs is access to a machine shop and a meth head that works there to make it in exchange for some dope. Hell, an electric motor and a paddle gear or a simple a
TTBOMK clone commercial "AK-47s" are not converted military rifles and cannot accept military parts that will allow selective fire without nontrivial (remilling/stamping/drilling the receiver) and illegal modification. Of course there are a few million grandfathered weapons that predate this legal requirement, though it's still illegal to convert them back to full auto. And of course MGBM is right about real Assault Rifles, SMGs, and machine guns that fulfill the proper military definitions of those terms.
An Ak-47 is a hell of a gun an AR won't go through what an AK can.
Depends on what features you're valuing. The AK is certainly more reliable (ie, dirt/lack of cleaning won't cause it to jam as readily). It also hits a bit harder at closer ranges.
On the other hand, the AR is a FAR more accurate rifle, and even though it doesn't hit as hard at close ranges, it's typically effective out to longer ranges (due to it's better accuracy and the lighter, faster bullet having less drop at any given range). The AR is also typically a bit lighter than the AK.
Its not a true ak-47 at the price he's offering the voucher for. A real one, would be in the thousands ( legal that is, i have no idea the black market value ), so its just a semi-automatic rifle.
I mentioned it in an earlier post, but those are generally semi-auto clones (most commonly Romanian, not Russian). A real, select fire AK-47 will run several thousand $$$ and require a lot more bg checks and paperwork than your standard gun purchase. Still, if you want one they can indeed be legally purchased (in most states anyways - in the extremely anti-gun states like California, Maryland, Massachusetts, etc, there are usually state laws that restrict it).
You know why you carry a gun, Because carrying a police officer would be heavy. Police can not save you in quick situations where a few seconds tons of things can happen.
Wow, talk about missing the point. You think it's heavy trying to carry a police officer around, try toting a whole HOUSE! It's a big world out there, outside your mom's basement.
Thanks for doing all that legwork, and actually surveying all those legally armed people to ascertain how often they practice at the range, and how well they shoot. It's nice to see that ignorant, opinionated ACs never pull speculation like that out of their ass and call it fact.
I'm glad you don't know of anyone who ever died of reinforced doors and windows. Because I'm sure that your experience is so broad as to be almost universal. I'm sure that bars on windows and doors don't impede firefighters' a
Considering most people who have a gun for protection can barely use it on the range, you must be retarded to think they will hit anything when their blood is pumping.
I assume you have some concrete numbers that accurately detail this phenomenon of gun owners being inherently unable to operate their firearms, and you're not simply spouting a flagrantly ignorant assumption that you believe to be true but have never considered how utterly retarded it sounds when spoken aloud.
Its beyond me why people spend all that money on a gun when simply using it for home security would be better. God knows I havent heard of anyone who died from having a reenforced door or windows.
Yeah, because we all know that a reenforced door and windows keep those intruders out without exception right? And they even protect you when you are in your car, at the grocery store, at the ATM, or w
the AK-47 is, by definition, an assault rifle. It is designed for attack. It has a long range, and will shoot through your house and all the houses within a straight line of your shot for 1/4 mile. A sawed off shotgun is much better for dealing with an intruder in at your door when you've just been woken up by them shooting the dog. Also, a nice pack of dobermans will probably protect your home better than any gun.
the AK-47 is, by definition, an assault rifle. It is designed for attack. It has a long range, and will shoot through your house and all the houses within a straight line of your shot for 1/4 mile.
You gonna back that up, or are you just using the "I know nothing about guns but I'm just going to make an outrageous statement about how I thinkthings are"? A 7.62x39 will penetrate 2-3 interior walls, not rows and rows of houses. Most people don't realize it, but the AK is not some uber-powerful building destroyer; in fact, it's very similar in range and power to a lever-action.30-30 hunting rifle.
It may surprise you, but "assault rifles" were not actually developed for purposes of "long range attack".
Thanks for that informative post, but if I were to get a firearm, I think I would go with a semi-automatic handgun loaded with snake shot. By far and away, the only think I'm likely to need to shoot is a snake.
A handgun would be less unwieldy for someone like me than a rifle. Any person I could ever see myself needing to shoot would be in the house. Snake shot is unlikely to kill anyone and is extremely unlikely to injure a non-target if I miss. Sure it probably won't stop a very determined attacker, bu
Right. Because dobermans are much better at surviving a gunshot and protecting you than a gun. However, they do make a great addition to a gun for security.
At least make it an AR15 instead of what is likely some ex soviet bloc knockoff - although my guess is that would cost twice as much for them to do....
AK's are great if you get a decent one...Very reliable weapons, but the variation in quality is so wide that unless you know what you're getting, you don't REALLY know what you're getting.
You can see how the fact that this dealer is doing this is generating publicity; very successfully I might add - look at us discussing this, we're all over the world and we'
And just exactly which hands are the right hands to wield lethal weapons? I don't know, I'm not inclined to accept this person's (or anyone else's) opinion about who are the "right" people. But then, I'm just not a big fan of shooting people.
awsoem (Score:2)
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"Because he believes in God to save his soul, guns to save his home, and guts to actually use them."
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In case you didn't know, Kansas is a state. Missouri is also a state.
He's a blue state (ignorant, the "best" kind) elitist bastard, who I started ignoring ASA I saw that stupid comment of his.
Re: (Score:2)
Selling an AK for self/home defense is kind of misguided. The slug from an AK will cut through interior walls with relative ease and remain intact even after several trajectory altering contacts. Not a caliber of choice for indoor use.
If you are outside, shooting in, it's great though.
Horses for courses... It would be a bad choice for apartment dwellers. But on a country home on 12 acres (like he mentioned in the video) it is a good choice. And frangible rounds are helpful in dense environments.
Also many people get stuck on how the gun looks... A CZ-52 pistol has far more penetration than an AR-15, but the AR-15 gets all the bad press.
Re: (Score:1, Interesting)
Actually, he has 1,200 acres. It's a ranch and I must say it's a really nice one. I've been there numerous times and even shot a few rifles with Mr. Muller. He is one of the most upstanding individuals I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You're looking for more of something like a 12 gauge slug. You don't need to sling a small round a long range, you're looking for the short range stopping power. If the body armor does stop it, they'll be flat on their backs regardless. Then again, any decent bullet hitting any body armor is going to really hurt, so it's only really good for saving their lives, not pretending that they weren't shot at.
Here's some approximate effective ranges of various ammunition.
9mm pistol - 50 yards
45 cal pistol - 10
Re: (Score:2)
American walls or European ones? ;)
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My front door faces a hill. ;)
Re:watched too many movies? (Score:3, Interesting)
If the body armor does stop it, they'll be flat on their backs regardless.
conservation of energy does mean that it won't gain energy in flight, so it will not impact with any more energy than what the gun put into the shooter first (except for a recoiless, or mounted gun.) With a person running at you, unless they are too light to shoot the same load without being knocked on their ass, the bullet wont either. So yeah unleash a double barrel 10 gauge and you will both be sitting on you asses, assuming both hit the target. Your going to want something with penetration (small ca
Re: (Score:2)
You're missing the fact that the shooter of the slug is accelerating it over the 2ft length of the shotgun barrel, and the body armor is stopping it in a few inches.
A shotgun can easily put an unwary shooter off-balance, so it would do worse to the target. Knocking them down might be marginal, but they'll be severely hurting and knocked around.
Re: (Score:2)
Myth busters did bust this myth twice as well [mythbustersresults.com]
The difference in 2 feet vs 3in would be 12 milliseconds instead of 1.5 ms. Since it is still the same amount of energy hitting both the gun holder, and the thief. So barring a outside force they would each reach the same speed, the only difference is the shooter would have 1/8th of the acceleration rate, but for 8 times as long of period of time, with both eventually reaching the same final velocity change.
So the shooter has a extra 11 milliseconds to countera
Re: (Score:2)
I can understand the 7.26x39 for the AK as a typo... but where did you get 7.62x33 for the 30-06? Try 7.52x51mm. Basically, a longer cartridge will have longer range and a bigger kick.
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That was a typo. It's 7.62x63mm [wikipedia.org].
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I was going to comment but this kind of stupidity really inflames me and I honestly don't have the time to explain all the ways I see this as wrong.
No kidding, we (as in USA consumers) bail out GM, so the dealer gives away a commie AK-47. What a rip.
What's next, an american made AR-15 with every Toyota Prius?
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It's funny how the most lasting icon of soviet communism has been embraced in the US.
I guess it's nice that there are more important things that patriotic or ideological pride, though rate of fire might not be a great improvement. :D
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It's funny how the most lasting icon of soviet communism has been embraced in the US.
That's because we know a good firearm when we see it.
Sadly, we also don't care about buying crap, which is why so many SKS have been sold.
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Nothing wrong with the SKS. Shoots the same 7.62x39mm round as the AK-47 and it's typically more accurate (though calling EITHER rifle "accurate" is laughable). Both are very, very reliable too. The AK-47 just buys you select fire (though all civilian versions of the gun sold are semi-auto only anyways) and higher magazine capacity (as well as a detachable magazine). There are aftermarket modifications though that add 30-rnd detachable mags to the SKS making it pretty close to the AK.
I will also admit t
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Not all of those rifles are manufactured overseas. In fact, there is a mandated % of American parts even on imported ones.
Free AR-15's from toyota? I doubt it, they wouldn't pick such a finicky firearm to give people. There is a reason the ak is still around after all these decades. Its well designed for its task.
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Right... like your erratic neighbour will know what your username is on here if you register. Unless you tell him, I suppose...
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Yeah I agree why would someone get offended about an AK47 giveaway with vehicle purchase. I would be kind of offended that you had to choose an AK since the AK is not that accurate, would prefer a CETME or maybe m14, but if it is a voucher I guess you could use it towards the purchase of whatever you wanted.
I am so glad I live in the state of Texas where we still have the right to defend ourselves. The news anchor was a bit over the top on her line of questioning and was not being fair and balanced. Who
Re: (Score:2)
Not "assault rifle" -- just a scary black rifle (Score:2, Informative)
There might be a picture (as the linked story says) of an AK-47 assault rifle on that page, but (even aside from the mentioned fact that it's a voucher, not a gun, that buyers get) they almost certainly won't be buying an assault rifle, just a lookalike. Unless the dealer is somehow magically and illegally supplying them all with selective-fire capability. Pretty tough (expensive, long process) for ordinary Americans to buy any guns with selective (or plain full-auto) guns; those are only for the gub'mint,
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Re:Not "assault rifle" -- just a scary black rifle (Score:4, Informative)
That's not really a "real" AK though. It's a clone version made as a semi-automatic. You CAN indeed buy a "real" select fire AK though if you want. You can buy a real M16 if you want, or a registered full-auto sear kit for an AR15 that converts it to selective fire mode.
It's not a well known fact, but in most US states as long as it was made prior to 1986 it's legal for a civilian to purchase a selective fire/full auto gun (ie, a machine gun). It just takes a background check, notification to your local chief law enforcement officer (sheriff or chief of police), and a special tax stamp from the BATF for each one (it's $300 IIRC). Not many people bother though because they cost a fortune. Not only to shoot (full auto fire is an expensive waste of ammo for fun shooting at the range), but also for the gun itself. $3000 minimum for a junker WW2 relic that barely functions, to upwards of $10,000 for a decent gun. Even just the registered full auto sear for an AR-15 (which is literally a small part that any machinist could churn out of a block of metal for $50) will run you $8000 and up just because finding a part to LEGALLY convert your brand new AR15 rifle into a machine gun is worth that much to people.
Re: (Score:2)
Even just the registered full auto sear for an AR-15 (which is literally a small part that any machinist could churn out of a block of metal for $50) will run you $8000 and up just because finding a part to LEGALLY convert your brand new AR15 rifle into a machine gun is worth that much to people.
And isn't that just a kick in the nuts? A gun toting thug that intends to kill rival gang members or commit armed robbery doesn't give a rats ass if he gets an extra charge for having an illegal class III weapon, and has no problem with putting an illegally fabricated auto sear into a gun or making any other illegal modification to a firearm, all he needs is access to a machine shop and a meth head that works there to make it in exchange for some dope. Hell, an electric motor and a paddle gear or a simple a
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
TTBOMK clone commercial "AK-47s" are not converted military rifles and cannot accept military parts that will allow selective fire without nontrivial (remilling/stamping/drilling the receiver) and illegal modification. Of course there are a few million grandfathered weapons that predate this legal requirement, though it's still illegal to convert them back to full auto. And of course MGBM is right about real Assault Rifles, SMGs, and machine guns that fulfill the proper military definitions of those terms.
Re: (Score:2)
An Ak-47 is a hell of a gun an AR won't go through what an AK can.
Depends on what features you're valuing. The AK is certainly more reliable (ie, dirt/lack of cleaning won't cause it to jam as readily). It also hits a bit harder at closer ranges.
On the other hand, the AR is a FAR more accurate rifle, and even though it doesn't hit as hard at close ranges, it's typically effective out to longer ranges (due to it's better accuracy and the lighter, faster bullet having less drop at any given range). The AR is also typically a bit lighter than the AK.
It really depends on w
Not an AK-47 (Score:2)
Its not a true ak-47 at the price he's offering the voucher for. A real one, would be in the thousands ( legal that is, i have no idea the black market value ), so its just a semi-automatic rifle.
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I mentioned it in an earlier post, but those are generally semi-auto clones (most commonly Romanian, not Russian). A real, select fire AK-47 will run several thousand $$$ and require a lot more bg checks and paperwork than your standard gun purchase. Still, if you want one they can indeed be legally purchased (in most states anyways - in the extremely anti-gun states like California, Maryland, Massachusetts, etc, there are usually state laws that restrict it).
Stupid News Woman. (Score:1)
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Wow, talk about missing the point. You think it's heavy trying to carry a police officer around, try toting a whole HOUSE! It's a big world out there, outside your mom's basement.
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I'm glad you don't know of anyone who ever died of reinforced doors and windows. Because I'm sure that your experience is so broad as to be almost universal. I'm sure that bars on windows and doors don't impede firefighters' a
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Considering most people who have a gun for protection can barely use it on the range, you must be retarded to think they will hit anything when their blood is pumping.
I assume you have some concrete numbers that accurately detail this phenomenon of gun owners being inherently unable to operate their firearms, and you're not simply spouting a flagrantly ignorant assumption that you believe to be true but have never considered how utterly retarded it sounds when spoken aloud.
Its beyond me why people spend all that money on a gun when simply using it for home security would be better. God knows I havent heard of anyone who died from having a reenforced door or windows.
Yeah, because we all know that a reenforced door and windows keep those intruders out without exception right? And they even protect you when you are in your car, at the grocery store, at the ATM, or w
Defense? (Score:1)
Assault vs. defense (Score:2)
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the AK-47 is, by definition, an assault rifle. It is designed for attack. It has a long range, and will shoot through your house and all the houses within a straight line of your shot for 1/4 mile.
You gonna back that up, or are you just using the "I know nothing about guns but I'm just going to make an outrageous statement about how I thinkthings are"? A 7.62x39 will penetrate 2-3 interior walls, not rows and rows of houses. Most people don't realize it, but the AK is not some uber-powerful building destroyer; in fact, it's very similar in range and power to a lever-action .30-30 hunting rifle.
It may surprise you, but "assault rifles" were not actually developed for purposes of "long range attack".
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks for that informative post, but if I were to get a firearm, I think I would go with a semi-automatic handgun loaded with snake shot. By far and away, the only think I'm likely to need to shoot is a snake.
A handgun would be less unwieldy for someone like me than a rifle. Any person I could ever see myself needing to shoot would be in the house. Snake shot is unlikely to kill anyone and is extremely unlikely to injure a non-target if I miss. Sure it probably won't stop a very determined attacker, bu
Re: (Score:1)
At least make it an AR15 (Score:2)
At least make it an AR15 instead of what is likely some ex soviet bloc knockoff - although my guess is that would cost twice as much for them to do....
AK's are great if you get a decent one...Very reliable weapons, but the variation in quality is so wide that unless you know what you're getting, you don't REALLY know what you're getting.
You can see how the fact that this dealer is doing this is generating publicity; very successfully I might add - look at us discussing this, we're all over the world and we'
"...so that guns end up in the right hands."???!!! (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)