DHS Official Considered Shock Collars For Air Travelers 673
"The Washington Times is reporting that the DHS wants to replace your boarding pass with a GPS-enabled shock bracelet. Plans for the device include subduing passengers remotely as well as onboard interrogation. There's even a promotional video."
Perhaps Paul Ruwaldt (the official named in this story) has been watching "The Coneheads" a bit too much, or not actually flying enough. Expressing interest is not quite the same as ordering mass quantities, but it's scary enough.
Give me your agonizer!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Life imitates "Mirror, Mirror." Swell.
Nothing to see here, move along (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF? (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, it's NOT funny. DON'T LAUGH! This is scary, not funny.
I would want independent confirmation of this. (Score:3, Insightful)
Living in the DC area, and seeing the Washington Times (owned by the unification church) in action, I don't consider it a reputable paper and would want some independent confirmation of this.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
So TSA's main job now is justifying their job.
So what if I... (Score:3, Insightful)
This helps terrorists if implemented (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How much is a pilot license? (Score:5, Insightful)
That is just it... I can load just about anything I want into my private plane and fly anywhere in the US without having to go through security, without having to provide biometric ID, without having to take my shoes off, without having to wear shock collars, etc...etc...etc...
That is why this whole thing is security theatre.
On a practical note. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
you're an airline pilot. A terrorist organization just used Semtex to destroy your reinforced door. I know my gut reaction is to look at a list of passengers and type in an id number to shock a specific individual.
As much as I don't like Tasers, it makes more sense to have a Taser gun than Taser wristbands. Those wristbands have to either be activated individually by number - not happening in an attack - or all at once - pissing everyone off.
For those that want to get outraged, this is an area where big business (airlines) can be your friends. The airlines won't allow this. Anything that makes flying more of a pain reduces their profits - even things like the new security fees on airline tickets reduce their profits. They aren't going to pay more money (I'm guessing at least $15-a-bracelet for the materials, location tag, and shock element considering that a Taser costs hundreds of dollars) to piss off customers.
So, this won't happen.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as criminals when they travel.
Why stop at travel? Why not just have everyone wear these all the time? You'd probably have to randomly test-shock people to deter tampering, but hey, such is the price you pay for Freedom. Er.. Liberty? No, what was it the US government always swore to defend, again?
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not completely sure why the fear level is so high in American culture, but I'd hazard to guess that it's the result of a combination of being too used to being too comfortable and too safe too much of the time - similar to tyrant's paranoia - and the fact that the media and the current administration both cultivate fear (for different reasons).
Re:On a practical note. . . (Score:2, Insightful)
No clearly you press the "shock all, sort it out later" button. In fact you press that when you hear a bump on the reinforced door - better safe than sorry!
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless the passengers are taken out by shock bracelets. Good job, TSA!
"Running Man" anyone? (Score:3, Insightful)
Flight crew would use them to punish passengers (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Insightful)
From an "evolutionary" standpoint,this is probably the beginning of the end for "big birds" and large long flights.
Fuel is an issue as well as alternative travel options,now we have DHS. I admire their enthusiasm but they lack in the brains dept.
I predict that the small aircraft industry and charter flights is gonna boom because of the added aggravation.
Big birds can't get any lighter without using toilet paper in place of aluminum and fuel costs are already killing the industry. I predict people will drive long distances now in silly little cars or motorcycles.Tents will replace campers.
People will chose comfort and peace of mind over cost and aggravation any day of the week.
So long 747,I might see you flying across oceans now and then,but your days are numbered.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Just remember, the only thing we have to fear is...
Um...
Well, is our government it seems.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
That's right, keep the conspiracy flying.
I don't think the passengers had time to watch the news, call their families, and say goodbye.
Right. Because the recorded phone messages of flight attendants and some of the passengers are completely fabricated. The families made them up after the plane went down to gain sympathy.
Re:So what if I... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it's the randomness of it that scares people, not the novelty and shock value.
For example, the suicide bombings in Israel are neither novel nor particularly shocking, but the factor of "Oh shit, this could have happened to my family" is what gets to most people.
Freedom is really troublesome (Score:5, Insightful)
To authoritarian people, the very idea that the masses have freedom is a scary.
Whether true or not, this story shows a very real reaction some people have to idea that they can't control other people. Freedom is, amongst other things, is also based on a "trust." At some point, a free people will rebel against an increasingly oppressive government. I think we are seeing the U.S. government racing to reach a state of control and surveillance BEFORE people start to rebel en mass.
The race is to get to a point where there is no way the people can rebel without losing their jobs, savings, houses, lives, etc. This is why students and kids protest, because they don't have a life's work of savings to lose.
The irony is that the corrupt powers that be had better fix the economy pretty damn quickly, as people with a lot to lose are easier to control that people who have lost everything. Once we have a major depression, the ideologies of abortion, gun control, "family values," become second to jobs.
If a mob of 1,000,000 people march on the white house with pitchforks and tourches demanding justice, there will be justice.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
American culture doesn't have this level of fear. Nobody I know of has cut short travel plans because of the terrorism threat, though I imagine some people have. Nobody I know of thinks TSA is making air travel safer.
This whole fear thing has been manufactured by the government as an excuse to remove our civil liberties.
Don't ever EVER think that the American people are demanding it. We're not. This is being done TO us, not FOR us.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
There will never be another hijacking of a plane with americans on it.
Exactly. That's why all four planes were hijacked in the same hour. Flight 93's reaction ("it's them or us") is now the default.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Where are all of these scared people?
They are in the government, and they are scared of getting their budget cut, so they keep a constant state of fear in motion to grease the wheels of spending and reduction of freedom.
I don't understand why (Score:5, Insightful)
What I suspect will happen is that this is a trial idea floated to the media and will be explained away as saying
These kinds of proposals aren't random; by making ridiculous suggestions like this, they move the boundaries of what is acceptable. Compared to shock collars, some of the other things they come up with will seem tame now.
What I don't understand is why people go for this bullshit. Why is it the government's responsibility to make air travel safe? Who cares? I've been flying for nearly 40 years, and the same risks we have today existed all that time and were just as obvious. And except for the fact that in 2001, the air planes plowed in a big building in Manhattan, 9/11 seems not much different from any of the numerous other plane hijackings.
People should just not vote for any president or representative supporting such measures.
So my twisted mind... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I stopped flying specifically because of the TSA restrictions, NOT the fear of terrorist hijackings and bombings. I refuse to be treated like cattle by the airlines and shoved into a tiny tin can after being accosted by glorified mall security guards for hours at a time. They're making it as inconvenient as humanly possible to fly in this country these days and frankly, if I need to travel I'll just drive. If I can't drive somewhere and a ship is infeasible then I really don't need to travel there.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
With these devices it would seem far more likely to happen. All you'd need to do is hack the system that controls the bracelets and you've just subdued the entire passenger compliment. This seems like a massively stupid idea.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is an example [wikipedia.org] of how fearless we were. This one [wikipedia.org] was approved by the same administration that said we have nothing to fear...
I dig the fangs and the blood-drenched knife. Where are my posters of Muslims with blood-drenched swords to keep me awake at night??
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody I know of has cut short travel plans because of the terrorism threat,
I suspect far more people cut travel plans short because of the TSA.
Re:So don't compalin about your seat (Score:1, Insightful)
"What if I'm doing something they think is wrong?" and then go on to give examples of common things they do that could be outlawed just-because... usually makes them angry but sometimes gets them to shut up...
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
I agree with you -- it's not average Americans who are doing this. Average Americans are going WTF??
But the media has discovered that fear makes a good eyeball magnet, and they're all about selling eyeballs to advertisers. So the more they can convince us we're in fear of [insert bogeyman here] the richer the media outlets become.
And the younger generation of yuppies who've never lived outside their city cocoons are already half-afraid of anything unfamiliar (in much the same way little kids are often afraid of the dark), so it's easy to for the media to embue them with a culture of fear, even tho in truth they have "nothing to fear but fear itself".
This will work great (Score:3, Insightful)
Until the terrorists figure out that you can circumvent it with a small strip of aluminum foil.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
At least during WWII, there was something to actually fear; the world was at war. This fear of terrorism is a joke.
Very insightful, during WWII there were a lot of German submarines outside the east coast, and there were also a few Japanese outside the west coast of the US.
Using aircrafts as tools for terrorism is probably no longer a feasible issue, the idea behind terrorism is just to kick in when least expected. Give it 10 more years and we shall start to worry because then every mistake made in security will repeat itself.
Worry more about all the containers arriving from other countries. A large-scale destruction of a major harbor will certainly cause problems.
Increasing the security checks on airline passengers is just what the terrorists are after. Why not require sedating of all passengers on international flights?
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
I agree with your conclusion, but not your reasoning. I think it is time that Americans (and I am one) wake up and realize that anyone, anywhere, anytime can be killed, intentionally or by accident. Put MORE fear into the bastards. It's kind of like the kids who grow up washing their hands every two seconds for fear of germs. When they finally do go outside they have chronic asthma and allergies and god knows what other health problems. All because their immune systems are overwhelmed by never being exposed previously. Me? I was force-fed mud pies by my siblings and now have the immune system of an ox. Same with fear. I realize just how fragile a human being is and how scary the world can be. But I don't let it paralyze me. I make smart choices, weigh the risks, and generally try to be a good person. If a crazed terrorist kills me then that sucks. But I will NEVER strap a f*$%ing taser to my wrist voluntarily.
Stop trying to bubblewrap the playground equipment or put every airline passenger into suspended animation before they travel or require cavity searches to enter a courthouse. There was a time when people took personal responsibility and that risk kept them from acting like total assholes to everyone else. While I don't advocate going back to vigilante-ism, I strongly advocate letting people take the risks they are comfortable with and not trying to make the government into a nanny state. Because that is exactly what this is pandering to, the idea that the big strong government will protect you from the monsters under the bed if you just do what they tell you and eat your vegetables.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to work with several guys from an Air National guard base.
One year they were way under budget, and the commander bought nearly 80 $50 leathermans for his ground crews. They didn't need them, each one was listed as a tool for the their tool boxes but in reality each tool was walked home and a gift to each of the guys.
you never come in under budget in a government job. doing so means next years budget will be slashed to that amount minus 10%.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not so much that people go around wearing body armor in case some evil foreign-seeming type terrorist blows himself up in the local Starbucks. It's that nobody really protests when government officials say that such a scenario is A) actually plausible and B) can be prevented if we throw out just a couple of tiny little freedoms or spend vast amounts of money on whatever it is they're trying to sell. I have quite a few American friends, and except for a few, most tell me "it's worth it if it prevents another 9/11" whenever we discuss things like the TSA's idiocy, or illegal wiretapping, or whatever it is that goes on at Gitmo, etc.
I would call that a form of fear, though I haven't had much sleep so I'm probably just not coming up with whatever the better word for it is.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish I could mod you up higher than 5. Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex, and we did not listen.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
I suspect that an attack by the British in 1812 doesn't really count as making people able to cope with risks in the modern world on a day to day basis.
Anyway, if you guys had just knuckled under and bought the damn Tea, I'm sure none of this would be happening...
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
What was it... Southpark or Team America? Anyway, did you see the scene where the bunch of scared white guys (in funny hats) leave England, come over to the US, find themselves surrounded by friendly natives and, being scared white guys, shoot them all?
Re:I don't understand why (Score:2, Insightful)
While the system has many flaws, if you compare the risks of airline flight in the 50s with today, there has been a huge increase in safety. Some would have happened without the intervention of the government, but a lot of it might have been delayed or never happened without government intervention.
The DHS and TSA on the other hand, are the worst thing to happen to US aviation ever.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Insightful)
PUT US TO SLEEP (Score:2, Insightful)
I can't fly and I doubt anyone else can either!
Promise faster flights and even the business "I work while I fly" types will submit.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
Where are all of these scared people?
Actually, I think I found them the other day. Now, I need to preface this by saying that I grew up in a rural area near a college town-- I now live in a city. The girlfriend and I went for a weekend in the mountains. It was mostly peaceful, except for when we went for a jog. 10 minutes into the run, and we discovered that the dirt road we chose was basically un-runnable. Every hundred yards or so, some person's big, snarling guard dog would race out of a no-trespassing-staked-yard, barking like mad, with every intention of tearing us limb from limb, until the owner, invariably some person holding some kind of weapon, noticed that we were just runners and called off the dog. It got to the point where we just turned around.
Now, I believe that people have the right to live however they want, within reason, and that if people feel the need to barricade themselves up, well, power to them. But it left me with the impression that these people were deeply paranoid, and clearly hostile to outsiders. Despite the fact that this place was probably vastly safer than the city I spend most of my time in.
YMMV, of course. Best to take the above experience with a grain of salt and treat as probably apocryphal. But, for me, it was food for thought.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I live in the southeast.
The region is packed full of these "scared people".
The flags on display here remind me very much of the prevalence of the swastika in nazi germany, and people here think bush is the next best thing since apple pie.
Interestingly and predicatbly enough, a large number of these people are also creationist, and in the past couple years a so called "psychic" on a nearby road bulldozed her tar paper shack and built a 6000 square foot mc-mansion because her business has taken off so much.
This region is where things like kinoki foot pads get shipped to by the train-full.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
Just responding to reinforce your situation. I have a 10" solid tube dob (Orion XTi) that I would set up on the campus of the university where I worked on clear nights.
One such night, a university cop pulled up and asked what I was up to. He didn't seem alarmed, but made a off-hand comment as he left, saying that it looked like I was sighting in a mortar.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude, that's a pretty scary illogical leap.
The question of what I might choose, or you might choose, in a hypothetical scenario is irrelevant to the matter of what actually happened. Even if I agree arguendo that it could be justified, that is not in any way evidence that that is what took place on 9/11.
Seriously.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:2, Insightful)
But there are just too many that come in, and better security there would not be noticed by anyone. Hence, it's not good security theater.
That is the point of all this: security theater. Our government wants to act unilaterally abroad, and be above criticism at home. Security theater allows them to do both. I wonder how many senators have stock in popcorn manufacturers?
Re:How much is a pilot license? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:1, Insightful)
Seems like it should be easy enough. Just start shooting the passengers one by one until they give in and open the door.
... please don't tell anybody you got the idea from me!
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
And any pilot with half a brain knows that a cabin full of dead people is still better than a plane and building full of dead people.
Re:Your Agonizer, Komrade!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Yep... so explain to me again how this will stop anyone from executing their nefarious plans??
And no need to prepare; just pull out your hanky, or get some toilet paper from the commode, and shove it under the contacts.
Re:Conservatives/Fly-Over People (Score:4, Insightful)
None. Now. if you had asked how many people are willing to let the gov't snoop into their neighbors lives and bedrooms, then lots.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:They are your average uneducated citizens (Score:4, Insightful)
is that so mad? I remembe catching a train out of london that day, and being a bit nervous about the whole 'being in a packed capital city that jet airliners fly over every minute' until I got home (out of London)
It's easy to forget the uncertainty of that day. The first plane was an accident, the second and some heavy shit was going down. By the time I saw footage of the pentagon covered in smoke and rubble, I was on the phone wanting to speak to my family. Once a military icon like the pentagon is on fire, its not too many steps to see a nuke being lobbed at Afghanistan in response, and it all going haywire from then on.
Thank fuck it didn't go that way, but I don't blame anyone for feeling jittery on the day.
Re:Nothing to see here, move along (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, I don't think a public servant ought to be pilloried for thinking, even about a bad idea. It's not thinking that is the problem, it's acting without thinking.
"Conceiving" that somebody might "envision" using this for general use is hardly a ringing endorsement. It seems to me to be a self-evident truth. If this thing is in specialized use, then in some future scenario there will be a suggestion to put it into general use. Probably that future scenario will be like 9/11 -- an environment where people are demanding action, not reflection.
So, if the technology exists, then I think we ought to consider using for everybody. I expect we'll discover all kinds of reasons to reject the idea, which will be good to know when the demand is to do something, anything.
If an administration is foolish enough to put this into effect except in the aftermath of a 9/11 type event, then it'll deserve what it gets.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:2, Insightful)
That won't work if there's no door to open. All this security theater could be avoided if we would just seal off the cockpit from the cabin, and have the pilots use a separate entrance.
No more hijackings, and I can bring a reasonable size bottle of liquor in my carry on again.
Re:Your Agonizer, Komrade!! (Score:3, Insightful)
This is just getting ridiculous...
It's bad enough that some kook at the Washington Times twisted some mild interest shown by the DHS in a restraining device into a government conspiracy to fit every passenger with a shock collar. It's bad enough when someone submits the editorial to Slashdot without checking any facts.
Now I'm reading posts speculating on cost to implement, IT security of the system that will be put into place, and complications for passengers with pacemakers. Even though the original supposition is false, you've invented this reality where you'd really jack things up by putting your mad hacking skillz to work. Really.
Read the DHS letter referenced by the op-ed piece. You will not only do a disservice to the authors (who bank on sheeple accepting what they write as spoon-fed truth), but you will also realize that there is no plan to outfit air travelers with shock collars. The DHS official expresses interest in adopting the technology for detainee management. He makes the mistake of including possible applications in the air travel area (likely to manage detainees in airports or on passenger flights). From this, these authors spin up a pretty good tale of science fiction, where a government organization spends several billion dollars per year on a nefarious plot to put dog collars on airline passengers. Wait, what?
Any discussion further down this train of thought is the worst kind of mental masturbation. We may as well discuss how to cause chaos on the Enterprise by hacking into its computer and initiating a self-destruct sequence, or rigging the transporter to reassemble people inside out. That has about as much of a tie to reality as this discussion.
Re:Your Agonizer, Komrade!! (Score:4, Insightful)
While what you say is correct... in the current climate of eroding personal rights and increasingly invasive government, I think discussion of how gov't agencies COULD get out of hand is a useful exercise, in that it gets people thinking about the "What if" aspects, and how both current and potential gov't (mis)behaviour can impact their everyday lives. What could we do if the situation came to pass? How would it be implemented? how much will it cost us in tax dollars? what alternatives would we have? Better yet, how could we prevent it? In California, sometimes the best way to halt stupid legislative ideas is to show the costs (including failure of revenue) to the Appropriations Committee.
Far from being mental masturbation, this is good exercise for sheeple not accustomed to thinking in terms of how good technologies can become bad policies. And f protest rises against even a nonexistent erosion of our rights, it serves as notice to those we elect and appoint that this is not acceptable to the Citizenry, and if they do have any such thoughts, they'd best rethink 'em.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Using up the Budget (Score:3, Insightful)
The difference is that in the private business, you probably get rewarded for inventing something that can cut costs.
When you're working with the government, you get punished (i.e. get less money) if you manage to save some.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm right here. And I'm scared to death. Of my government.
Years ago, I laughed off an idea like this (tasers strapped to all air passengers). Surely, I said, no one would seriously consider this -- passengers would decline to travel rather than strap on one of these things.
How wrong I was. It seems that no idea is so evil that it can't find a proponent in my government. Fsck me.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry, but as much as I'd like to shoot someone's yappy dog with some 00 buckshot, climbing a 6-foot block wall and shooting into someone else's back yard will land you in a heap of trouble, even here in gun-happy Arizona. Not only would you be in trouble for trespassing, firing a firearm within city limits without cause, and animal cruelty (though I don't see how such a quick death is in any way cruel, compared to its suffering by sitting outside in 115-degree heat), you'd also get sued by the stupid white-trash family for killing their "poor little" dog and some stupid bleeding-heart jury (which we have tons of here in AZ) would rule in their favor.
Our way went much better. These morons went to court on a criminal charge (not civil), were prosecuted by the city, made utter and complete fools of themselves by trying to defend themselves against this charge first by claiming it wasn't their dog (shot down by prosecuter using their own witnesses), then claiming it wasn't barking at all (they admitted they weren't even home to know this, and the cop testified that it was barking), then by claiming harassment (judge laughed that one out). They were finally found guilty by the judge (there was no stupid jury on this one), given a pitiful $200 fine (because they claim to have given away the dog), but the good news for us, besides seeing them make fools of themselves in court, was that they'll now have a criminal record.
It was a pain in the ass for us, having to take time out to go to court, but that's much better than 1) just listening to barking dogs at all hours, or 2) getting in serious financial and legal trouble for taking the law into our own hands.
What's sad is that it isn't even the dog's fault, it's the stupid owners'. The dog is just a dumb animal, and it goes nuts when the people leave it alone all day. If you ask me, people in these subdivisions with these postage-stamp lots have NO business owning most dogs, especially larger ones or active ones. Small, lazy dogs that like to stay inside all day are probably fine (chihuahuas are good indoor dogs I think), but that's about it. If you want a dog, especially a large one, you need to live in a rural area with 40 or more acres for it to run around on. If you can't afford that, you have no business with a dog. There's a lot of stupid people here in Arizona who buy a dog, and then leave it chained up outside in the back yard all day, which amounts to nothing less than torture when it's summer and the temperatures are 110-115 every day. While I frequently wish I could kill these peoples' dogs to get some peace and quiet, and to put the animal out of its misery, it would really be more just if the owners could be killed instead, because they truly deserve it for what they do to these helpless animals.
Re:My work here is done (Score:2, Insightful)
I think it's funny how Democrats can simultaneously believe that Bush is a moron who sat reading My Pet Goat during the biggest attack on the continental US since Pearl Harbour and at the same time an evil genius who had been planing it since his inauguration as a sort of Reichstag fire to allow him to set up a empire.
The fact is the US government sucks at anything. They couldn't catch the terrorists because of turf wars. But those same turf wars, couple with the fact that everything the government does gets leaked to hostile media also means that it would be career suicide for any politician to plan some sort of cover up or inside job. Though it's true from what I can see that the US and UK both expected to fight another war in Iraq at some point since Saddam never had any intention of abiding by the treaties he signed at the end of the Gulf War. Actually it seems like he probably did tell his minions to get rid of his WMDs, but for some insane reason he didn't tell the weapons inspectors, so the US assumed he still had them. Now the UK wanted a legal war, and WMDs gave them that legality. But actually that was a bullshit reason to invade even if it was true. And because the government sucks at everything, even though they had 10+ years to work out contingency plans for an invasion they still didn't seem to have one when they finally did it.
Actually there's another thing which is funny here. Republicans are supposed to believe in small government. Since when did that include invading foreign countries and setting up a democracy there? Ok it worked in Japan and Germany, but there the US had no choice and both of those countries had been democratic in the past. There was never any sign that US troops in Iraq would fare any better than they did in Lebanon for example. Sure they can slaughter the Iraqi army in short order, but it should have been clear to the people that planned the invasion that they would be a magnet for totalitarian/terrorist movements that wanted to inflict casualties on them, force them to pull out and then take over Iraq. This is what the Democrats should have concentrated on, not implausible conspiracy theories
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
Just go to any home owners' association meeting in any American suburb, and you'll see them in droves.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:3, Insightful)
I would be very surprised if FedEx has not made plans against this. It's kinda obvious.