Musicians Protest Use Of Songs By US Jailers 210
The guy who wrote the Barney "I love you" song, and other musicians are banding together to protest the US military using their songs as weapons. The campaign has brought together groups including Massive Attack and musicians such as Tom Morello, who played with Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave. It will feature minutes of silence during concerts and festivals, said Chloe Davies of the British law group Reprieve, which represents dozens of Guantanamo Bay detainees and is organizing the campaign.
Can I protest them back? (Score:3, Insightful)
I've been tortured by morons blasting their music in my apartment complex and out of cars with overly shaky bass systems constantly. I hereby protest these so-called "artists" and their crappy music.
Hmmm (Score:1, Insightful)
So, what does the "I can do anything I want with my music" slashbot crowd think?
There's no point to the whole thing (Score:3, Insightful)
Instead of spending effort tormenting the detainees so that they hate us even more, it seems the time could be better spent re-educating them into lovers of America. We've currently got no reason to keep them there, so at least we could find something remotely constructive to do while this is going on. Then again, our entire prison system is based on locking people away for arbitrary (and long!) amounts of time rather than actually doing anything with those people.
"Torture." Right. (Score:1, Insightful)
I guess we should just not try to extract any information from prisoners. Forget the whole "intelligence" thing. We shouldn't spy, we shouldn't use "torture." If 16 hours of extremely loud rock music (apparently not enough to deafen, though) and 4 hours of complete silence and darkness counts as "torture," people need to visit some other countries more often.
I don't think torture should be used, but I don't think this counts as torture. I guess we should give terrorists a nice cell and good food and hope they feel guilty enough about trying to blow up people that they tell us their secrets, e.g., what is planned for the future?
One other note. It's obvious to me that Morello of RAM isn't particularly upset with the "torture," as he (I presume "humorously" but people don't usually joke about something without meaning some small part of it, at the very least) joked about leveling Guantanamo except for one cell and putting Bush in that cell. Strange thing to say for someone who thinks it is so awfully inhumane. I guess he thinks Bush deserves inhumane treatment, while terrorists who rape, kill, murder, based on religion and political beliefs, deserve humane treatment.
Privitized Prison system... (Score:3, Insightful)
...I'm sure the contractors supporting Gitmo are making bank.
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:3, Insightful)
Wow. So you really buy that whole "terrorists under the beds" nonsense. I guess someone has to.
I suppose you think there's an insurgency in Iraq too.
Re:There's no point to the whole thing (Score:2, Insightful)
Side note: Re-educating them into lovers of America? LOL! Why not just leave them be and send them home to their families. They would probably appreciate that more than any re-education program about how good America is. Not to be rude to American's, but it's just not all about you all the time
Miranda rights, asshole (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, you do have to give "terrorists" a nice cell and good food, as well as a speedy trial by a jury of their peers.
Anything less justifies retribution, whether you call it "terrorism" or not.
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:4, Insightful)
"I guess we should just not try to extract any information from prisoners. Forget the whole "intelligence" thing. We shouldn't spy, we shouldn't use "torture." If 16 hours of extremely loud rock music (apparently not enough to deafen, though) and 4 hours of complete silence and darkness counts as "torture," people need to visit some other countries more often. "
Do you think it would be acceptable to subject YOU to this treatment?
After all YOU are as guilty as they are. Neither of you have even been charged with a crime, neither of you has been convicted of anything, indeed the only real difference between them and you is that THEY are in gitmo and you aren't.
Are YOU willing to trade places with them?
After all, a lot of them are as innocent as you.
Perhaps we should try and "extract" intelligence from you for a few years, and see if you think its still a good idea.
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:3, Insightful)
you need to work on your reading skills. the prisoners aren't being put through just 16 hours of loud music and 4 hours of silence.
prisoners are being locked up without due process and subjected to physical and psychological torture for weeks, months, or even years. sensory deprivation is known to cause psychosis and potentially permanent damage to an individual. and as if the psychological abuse wasn't enough, the prisoners are also being held in stress positions meant to cause pain and/or injury to detainees for up to 2 days at a time.
and even if you have no concern for due process and human rights, torture has been proven to be a very poor way of obtaining accurate information. people will confess to crimes they didn't commit while subjected to torture. so what makes you think that "intelligence" gathered through torture would be of any value?
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:5, Insightful)
What "terrorists"? What, exactly, have the "terrorists" done? Who do they rape, kill and murder? Where and when is this happening?
Well, ok, the us army rapes and murders people based on religious and political beliefs. We call it war.
But these people in cuba? Do you know what they have done? What have they been charged with? What crimes did they commit? Do you even know who they are, where they come from, or what is being done to them?
NO, you dont. But its ok, they are "terrorists." Because the tv told you so.
Bush IS a war criminal. By any modern, humane definition of the term, by the UN's own definition. We hung Saddam. We hung the war criminals tried at Nuremberg.
I just love this new term, "terrorist" it is so meaningless and vague. Lets hope someday you are tagged with it and then we'll see where you stand.
You see, murderers and rapists are tried and sentenced, in any country. These poor people are not charged with any crime, are not sentenced to any punishment.
Yet sick stupid motherfuckers like you continue to sit by while it happens. Hopefully someday you will know what its like. Hopefully.
"wrote" the I Love You song? (Score:2, Insightful)
Like all those crappy Barney songs, they just added a few trivial lyrics to a PD song ("This Old Man" in this case).
They also used "Yankee Doodle" and others. One of the reason I used to detest Barney; Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers Neighborhood used real original songs.
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:5, Insightful)
If 16 hours of extremely loud rock music (apparently not enough to deafen, though) and 4 hours of complete silence and darkness counts as "torture," people need to visit some other countries more often.
You disgust me. The United States of America is supposed to be a shining beacon of light to the entire world. But you're fine with this sort of abuse as long as we're better than Egypt or North Korea? Screw being a beacon unto others, at least we're better than certain squalid dictatorships!
Re:Can I protest them back? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Can I protest them back? (Score:4, Insightful)
You obviously have never been forced to be around toddlers for any length of time. If you're not used to it and/or already emotionally geared towards it, that's torturous enough even without the big gay purple dino (or Tinky Winky etc) to deal with.
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know. Give them a fair trial and a sentence of some determinable time?
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:2, Insightful)
And what would be the determinable time for murder, terrorism, rape, etc? In other words, should society hold no crime serious enough that the punishment is as serious as prison for life? Or should punishment no longer fit the crime.
Re:Miranda rights, asshole (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey, guess what? As long as we're being stereotypical, please allow me to assert that you must be from the South, being that you're inbred as far as you are. You just might be a redneck if your family tree has no branches. I'll bet your sister is your favorite aunt, and the lazy-eyed kids you two have together must sure be special. Et cetera, and so on, and so forth. Ad nauseum. Ad infinitum.
But I digress.
We don't really have any evidence that these folks have done anything wrong, because if we did, we'd have a trial for them, and THEN we'd have locked them up forever, or for however long their crimes may warrant. Meanwhile, there's no reason to torture anyone. Whether it be water-boarding, thumbscrews, humiliation, or simple sleep deprivation brought on by 16 hours of loud music followed by a 4 hour respite of quiet, it's torture.
And, as a GTA-playing tinnitus sufferer, torture is just not how I want to see things done. This is not the America that I want to be a part of.
You don't like being called inbred without any supporting evidence, I'd guess. And I don't like jailing terrorists without a public trial.
To each his own, I suppose. I'm all for defending the country, but without limits on how we treat all humans, we're no better than any other offensive, fear-mongering, repressive society of the past.
I want to be remembered as having lived during a time of greatness and good virtue, not insolence.
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:3, Insightful)
"suspected" terrorists.
Guantanamo has had to let huge percentages of its prisoner population go because they weren't terrorists. There's no proof that any of the rest will ever be convicted of anything either. Your problem is you believe the government and military are only torturing guilty people. By that logic, lets torture everyone in south-east LA, there's a higher percentage of real crime happening there per capita than Guantanamo.
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Fuck that. We shouldn't be imprisoning people just to gain intelligence. Prove a crime was committed and punish them, or do not detain them. To do otherwise runs contrary to the entire set of principles on which the USA was founded.
There are no military personnel in Guantanamo (Score:5, Insightful)
The ones picked within the US can be charged in a civilian court, deported, or both. That's it.
Those picked up on the battlefield have done absolutely nothing wrong. If you invade a country, the civilians there have every right to attack your soldiers. That's war, sweetheart.
If you don't like it, don't wage it. Imprisoning people for defending their homes is not on.
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:5, Insightful)
You're talking about the insurgency in the 70's that put Saddam in power right?
Let's get this straight: In 2003 there was an invasion of Iraq by US forces (oh, and a smattering of allies, woo!) Since then there has been an occupation of Iraq by those same forces. One of the first actions of the occupying force was to disband the Iraqi army. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers were told to go home. Their pay severed. For a while they tried to get jobs but, due to the widely publicized incompetence of the occupying forces, there was no jobs to be had. The looting and destruction of both private and public property was tolerated and ignored by the occupying forces. National treasures that had been preserved over millennia were destroyed. Seeing that their country was being systematically reduced to rubble they formed a militia and began fighting to remove the occupying force.
This is not insurgency. If someone invaded your country, fired the government, fired the military and replaced it with nothing you'd rise up and try to eject them too. If you didn't, you'd hardly be a patriot.
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:4, Insightful)
Why not?
Perhaps because they were sent to gitmo so that US law would not apply, regardless of court decisions since, this was an enclave deliberately created to allow the US to commit acts thaat would be illegal in the US itslef.
Gitmo has destroyed the image the US once had as a country that beleved in fairness and the rule of law.
Re:There's no point to the whole thing (Score:2, Insightful)
There is a subset of the prisoner population which either doesn't want to return to their coutry of orgin because they believe they will be tortured or that we do not want to send to their country of orgin because those governments will not guarantee they will not be tortured.
If no other country will take these people, then what do you do with them?
Re:"Torture." Right. (Score:3, Insightful)
Not quite. The Iraqi army effectively disbanded itself. They simply went home.
No.. they were standing ready.. by executive order they were disbanded.
..and exactly what would you have had the US forces do and to what level of force would have had them use? There wasn't enough forces available to protect all of that property.
Gee, I fucking wonder why?!!
Re:There's no point to the whole thing (Score:2, Insightful)
Bluntly, if you can't prove their guilt and can't deport them, then let them stay in your country.