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Become Your Own Heir After Being Frozen 375

Posted by samzenpus
from the what-could-go-wrong dept.
destinyland writes "A science writer discovered it's possible to finance your cryogenic preservation using life insurance — and then leave a huge death benefit to your future thawed self. From the article, 'Most in the middle class, if they seriously want it, can afford it now. So by taking the right steps, you can look forward to waking up one bright future morning from cryopreservation the proud owner of a bank account brimming with money!' There's one important caveat: some insist that money 'will have no meaning in a future dominated by advanced molecular manufacturing or other engines of mega-abundance.'"

*

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Become Your Own Heir After Being Frozen

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  • by Raindance (680694) * <johnsonmx@gm a i l .com> on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @12:56AM (#30126204) Homepage Journal

    Given the assumption that cryogenic revival will be possible, this may work in principle-- but the insurance industry doesn't exactly function on immutable code-like rules that can be hacked for fun and profit.

    It's much more a game-- and moreover, the game is owned by the insurance industry. You're just playing it. And if you figure out a particularly good trick to beat the house, they're either going to rationalize why certain technicalities mean they don't need to pay you (and thus 'easy money' becomes 'try to drag deep-pocketed defendants into court'), or they'll simply change the rules before you're revived, and you won't have been able to do anything about it because you were dead.

    From a what-do-you-have-to-lose perspective, sure, it's worth a shot. But this simply can't be a dependable part of estate planning.

    • by Lupulack (3988) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:02AM (#30126238)

      On the other hand, it appears that investing my cash in these companies in the business of bilking the terminally optimistic of their earnings *could* be a fine way to ensure my comfortable retirement. Thank you stupid wealthy people!

    • At present, there's no way to thaw a living human after deep freezing. With present day technology, deep frozen person means dead person (not just "mostly dead", either).
      Frozen meat can be cooked after thawing, so somebody in a dystopian future might benefit...
    • by shentino (1139071)

      If you are indeed dead enough to qualify for a payout, then you are presumably too dead to be considered a survivor.

      Kinda like trying to let your unborn child inherit your fortune.

      1) Dead and unable to claim inheritance because of not being a survivor
      2) Alive and unable to trigger a payout

      • by wisty (1335733)

        If you are indeed dead enough to qualify for a payout, then you are presumably too dead to be considered a survivor.

        Kinda like trying to let your unborn child inherit your fortune.

        1) Dead and unable to claim inheritance because of not being a survivor
        2) Alive and unable to trigger a payout

        3) For ethical reasons, your great-great-grandchildren must give permission before you can be thawed out. And reclaim their inheritance.

    • by The Wooden Badger (540258) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @02:48AM (#30126736) Homepage Journal

      The easy "out" would be that you weren't dead, and you owe them for unpaid premiums.

    • by DrXym (126579)
      From a what-do-you-have-to-lose perspective, sure, it's worth a shot. But this simply can't be a dependable part of estate planning.

      Besides which, if you're dead and you left all your money to yourself, I doubt any of your relatives are going to be particularly interested in fighting the insurance company to get the money for yourself. More likely they would fight to have it for themselves and settle if they have to.

      Anyway, if someone is rich, selfish and stupid enough to be cryogenically frozen they sh

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by jellomizer (103300)

      But I want to be frozen and for some odd reason put in a space craft and set adrift for centuries. Then finally picked up by a passing earth space craft and unfrozen by a well meaning android and a meddling doctor. Just in time to act like a complete jerk while they are in the middle of sensitive negations with a violent species of aliens who have a major military power.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:12AM (#30126292)

    There are few things I consider impossible but reviving people after simple freezing is one of them. There's massive damage and it's still not cold enough to arrest decay. Even if you could freeze a body without damage you'd still need to be near absolute zero to arrest most of the breakdown. Freezing essentially explodes the cell walls so there's nothing to revive. Cloning is pointless because it's a middle aged twin at best with none of your memories and no you can't just program them in like a computer the memories are actual structures in the brain that involve growth. I'm not saying there won't be a way to place a body in stasis I'm saying current freezing technologies are at best a joke and at worst a scam.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Normal Dan (1053064)
      Except they've been able to "freeze" then thaw rabbit kidneys. These kidneys were then placed into a living rabbit and they functioned rather well. With more research, I can see how this could be done to entire human brains, or even bodies.

      Also note, the important part of the brain is the structure. As long as it's kept intact, the memories and personality remain intact as well.
    • by selven (1556643)

      Even a 1% chance to live forever is worth an infinite number of years.

    • Impossible is a big word-- temporize.

      "Freezing essentially explodes the cell walls so there's nothing to revive."

      Absolutely correct. The damage done in cryogenics happens at the start. It's likely not correctable going down the road with a few hundred years technology. Most substances reduce in volume when frozen/changed to a solid state, Water is a substance which expands on freezing..
      The expansion upon freezing comes from the fact that water crystallizes into an open hexagonal form. This hexagonal la

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Pigeon451 (958201)

      We freeze cells and keep them at -80C for future use. Most of the cells turn out to be viable and usable after the freeze/thaw cycle. I realize freezing a body is very different then cells, however, I would hesitate to say freezing a body or head is "impossible".

  • by mxh83 (1607017) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:12AM (#30126294)
    The future will likely disallow this kind of inheritance. The main problem with cryogenics right now is that it is not possible to undo the damage caused by the cryogenic procedure. People who have invested in companies like Alcor have done so in the belief that a solution will soon be available. As soon as that happens the world will see a new set of laws that take care of all these loopholes. I would image that they will make sure you don't wake up with an advantage you do not deserve x years into the future. It will be more about people wanting to experience the future than benefiting from it
  • Yeah right (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Orionn2000au (1491623)
    "some insist that money 'will have no meaning in a future dominated by advanced molecular manufacturing or other engines of mega-abundance."

    Uh huh, sure. And we'll all have flying cars, and we won't need to work because we will have created new ways produce food. And there'll be no wars, and free ice-cream.
    • Why would we need any of those things? We want nice houses because we see nice houses and walk around in nice houses..... Matrix.

      We want to buy nice foods because we enjoy the savory and delicious flavors that they let us experience... Matrix.

      We want fast cars and sports equipment for excitement and thrills... Matrix.

      We want nice clothes and fashionable cars for the way we appear... Matrix.

      Augmented reality, or virtual reality will democratize property. You won't need a factory to build a Lamborghini it'

  • Key legal obstacle (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jacques Chester (151652) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:16AM (#30126320)
    Before coming to my senses, I used to be a law student. Trusts, including estates, was probably my favourite subject. The main vehicle for transmitting wealth between generations is trusts, because they are reliable and well-understood.

    However, in Australia, and other common-law countries such as the UK, Canada and the USA, trusts have a limited life-time. The basic principle is that the dead cannot rule the living. It's called the "rule against perpetuities". If trusts could last forever, more and more of the world's resources would be tied up in trusts with narrow aims and the eventually all the world would be divided between trustees and beneficiaries. So goes the argument, anyhow (this is different from conditional gifts and foundations, by the way, before you start yammering about scholarships and charitable organisations).

    The lifetime of a trust is specified at its creation. In the old days you could make it $DEATH_DATE_OF_SOMEONE + 21 years. So you'd have stuff like "For the life of the Prince of Wales and 21 years", the theory being that it's easy to know when the Prince of Wales carks it. More recently, most jurisdictions have introduced legislation allowing an optional ability to simply fix some time period, usually up to 80 years.

    And that's the problem. If you go into cryo-storage for 81 years, then on awakening you may find that your trust was dissolved and the benefits distributed to your descendants. And until it's proved that you can really come back from death via cryogenic storage, I'd be amazed if the courts changed their stance. Because too many people would try to break the rule against perpetuities by being "frozen".

    Of course, IANAL, this isn't legal advice, YMMV yadda yadda.
    • by mister_playboy (1474163) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:28AM (#30126384)

      Shouldn't this same line of logic apply to corporations and copyrights? Because right now, I would say the system is definitely breaking this "rule against perpetuities"...

    • The rule against perpetuities is not as ironclad as it used to be in the classic common law times. There are a lot of statutory exceptions and some states have even completely abolished the rule.

      I think the bigger problem is to find a way to make your re-created self be the beneficiary. There is absolutely no legal concept of someone dying and then reviving. And usually (although i am not 1oo% sure) if you make yourself the only beneficiary of a trust, the trust will get invalidated as a sham trust.

      Oh yes,

    • by roman_mir (125474)

      Convert what you can to gold and hide it somewhere, hopefully some place that won't be discovered for the next 1000 years, I guess that would be the difficulty.

      I predict that there will be a bank, maybe in Switzerland, maybe some place else, that will provide services helping the folks like that to hide their money, including from the law of other countries, for a percentage of annual interest perhaps.

      • Gold is worthless... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by denzacar (181829)

        And so are jewels, Confederacy dollars, Reichsmarks and Enron shares and stocks.
        Jewels can be replicated today - they are pricey because they are artificially kept pricey.
        Gold will probably be attainable from led or even rocks in the future.
        Companies and countries cease to exit.

        Several things will have (increased) value after a period of time.

        One is land.
        There is a limited amount of it on the planet. Even if you dry out oceans to make more - "old land" will still have premium value due to being closer to hu

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by dkleinsc (563838)

      the theory being that it's easy to know when the Prince of Wales carks it

      Of course, in practice, it would be really challenging to know when the Prince of Wales carks it, because periodically the Prince of Wales becomes the King of England, and one of his sons becomes Prince of Wales. There are in fact only 4 Princes of Wales that died while holding that title (Edward the Black Prince, Arthur Tudor, Henry Stuart, Frederick Louis). In other words, those trusts could be around a lot longer than intended, unless they were listed as basing the timing off of when the current Prince o

  • by 93 Escort Wagon (326346) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:16AM (#30126322)

    Just leave 93 cents in the bank. After 1000 years accruing interest you'll have 4.3 billion dollars.

    I do suggest changing your PIN number though, just in case.

    • by XanC (644172)

      I'd like a cheese pizza and a large soda, please.

    • by mister_playboy (1474163) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:30AM (#30126392)

      ...and with the way inflation works, your 4.3 billion dollars will buy you half a slice of bread once you've been thawed.

      • by JimboFBX (1097277)
        no, in some bizarre twist, everything will cost the same it does today. Guh!
      • by lee1026 (876806)

        Historically, real interest rates (the nominal interest rate - inflation) have been about 2%. So in 1000 years, that 93 cents will be worth about 370 million in inflation adjusted terms. A respectable sum.

        • by mpe (36238)
          Historically, real interest rates (the nominal interest rate - inflation) have been about 2%. So in 1000 years, that 93 cents will be worth about 370 million in inflation adjusted terms. A respectable sum.

          Depending on inflation. Has there yet been a bank or currency which has lasted that long?
          • by Jardine (398197)

            Depending on inflation. Has there yet been a bank or currency which has lasted that long?

            Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena was founded in 1472. So halfway there.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by tomtomtom (580791)

            Has there yet been a bank or currency which has lasted that long?

            Gold. Plus, if you get gold coins rather than bullion there's a chance that that they will acquire rarity value over 1000 years (due to the milling, engraving etc) over and above the value of the base metal itself and so enhance your rate of return. Ancient coins still have a high value attached to them despite the empires to which they belonged being long-dead.

          • by Krneki (1192201)

            Historically, real interest rates (the nominal interest rate - inflation) have been about 2%. So in 1000 years, that 93 cents will be worth about 370 million in inflation adjusted terms. A respectable sum. Depending on inflation. Has there yet been a bank or currency which has lasted that long?

            The modern banking started during the Renaissance in the 14th–16th centuries.

            And in the final sum you have to calculate also the account expenses the banks charges. It's possible, if the sum is not high enough, to own money to the bank after 1000 year.

    • I had $25 left in a bank account for a couple of years. The bank ate it all up with service charges until the balance went negative and then when I didn't pay the bill they closed out the account and said I was lucky they didn't come after me.

      Fuck the banks. I can't wait for the economy to totally crash and for all the monkey men and monkey women in suits to flip out and destroy themselves. Sure, I'll probably die myself, but I'm going to go laughing while pointing out that I told them so.

      (Nah. I'll pro

    • by blackest_k (761565) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @05:17AM (#30127258) Homepage Journal

      one slight problem with that

      http://www.unclaimedfinances.co.uk/facts-dormant-bank-accounts-government-act.html [unclaimedfinances.co.uk]
      In November 2008 the government passed the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Act. One of the major principles of the act is to reinvest unclaimed money back into the community. So what exactly does this mean for those who are looking to reclaim their lost money?

      Dormant Bank Accounts and Unclaimed Assets
      In banking terms a bank account is dormant if there has been no customer activity within a set time period; usually between three and 15 years. Most banks will write to customers asking if they wish the account to remain active. However, in a number of cases banks will not be able to reach customers due to reasons such as moving home or name changes. Customers can still reclaim money in dormant bank accounts even if the money has been redistributed under the Dormant Bank Account Act.

    • Just be sure to turn your lights off before you go [youtube.com]
  • by Concerned Onlooker (473481) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:17AM (#30126338) Homepage Journal

    Just be prepared for what is bound to happen. Your bike will likely get stolen.

  • hah.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by okmijnuhb (575581) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:23AM (#30126368)
    Your cryogenic machine will be unplugged by some of the 78 trillion inhabitants of earth and your body will be used for food. Power shortages will have already rendered your flesh ripe and unpalatable, but you will be consumed regardless.
    But worry not, your fortunes would have been confiscated by the corrupt state, and were you to be revived, you would owe a small fortune for the "maintenance" of your rotted corpse, despite the fact that your machine has too been cannibalized for it's parts and scrap.
    Had you awoken in the future, you'd have felt you left a virtual paradise, for a poisoned and hellish war zone, your debilitated body and mind only barely aware that the band of rogues that revived you only did so for profit, and are holding you hostage, with yourself as the source of ransom. When it's found you are without value, your decayed body will be allowed to die it's second and final death.
    • What? No talking apes? I paid for talking apes living in mud huts with rifles they have no industry capable of providing ammunition for!

      Damn YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

      -FL

  • Great plan as long as your frozen head can withstand the blunt force trauma of being hit like a baseball.
  • It'll be pretty awesome when this actually works, and becomes popular, and inflation adjusts for the fact that thousands of people who have done nothing but use electricity for a century or two all have an amount of money equal to a sizable life insurance payout. :V
  • "If you take a large amount of money and invest it carefully, at a good rate of return, compounded annually, it will eventually be worth nothing" Robert Heinlein. How much is a Drachma worth today? or a Lira, or a Spanish, or a Deutch Mark - yeah, they don't exist anymore and are worth diddly squat...
    • You could get coin collectors to buy your money.
    • by Eivind (15695)

      That's not actually true. First, money that is -invested- is generally used to buy something of value, typically something like land, commodities or fractions of companies (i.e. stock)

      Second, wise investment means diversification. Certainly, some of the things you buy, will become worthless, but that's acceptable if you invest in a wide selection of different things.

      A diversified portfolio only becomes worth zero if EVERY one of the items invested in, simultaneously drop to zero value.

      I can't see that happ

      • Yeah, but you'd have to be several degrees above "Carbonite" in order to properly manage your portfolio.

        -FL

    • If you have your drachma in notes, they're still worth 1/340.75 of a euro, at least until the 1st of March 2012 [bankofgreece.gr], because the Bank of Greece will still exchange them based on the face value.

      If your drachma were sitting in a bank account then they were probably converted automatically to euros.

  • Before you decide to put yourself on ice, listen to the "This American Life" podcast.

    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1291 [thisamericanlife.org]

    Right.

    Let me decompose into wormfood quietly, please.

  • Looks like Heinlein was right again.

    Time to buy some more Hired Girl stock!
  • Niven (Score:3, Informative)

    by MadUndergrad (950779) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:50AM (#30126486)

    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Larry Niven short story about Gil the ARM and the organleggers.

  • Let's say you're cryogenically frozen, and that cryogenic freezing is lethal as seems to be the case.

    Either:

    1) You are already dead, and thus revival is already a moot point
    2) The freeze kills you, revival is impossible, and the cryoplant is now on the hook for murder.

    Given the current evidence against revival, anyone that places you in cryostasis while you are still alive is guilty of murder since they ought to know damn well you won't be coming back.

    And if you're already dead, well, even if cryostasis d

  • by Edmund Blackadder (559735) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @01:59AM (#30126520)

    Of course it is a bad scam preying on old people. But there are many such scams. The brilliant thing about cryogenics or whatever they call it is that the scammers can never be discovered. Let's face it it will not be possible to revive those poor dead people for a long time and probably forever. Even if micro biology advances it will not be possible because freezing tissue destroys all the cells and turns everything into mush. They need more than micro biology they need someone to reverse entropy, and good luck with that.

    But anyways, let's imagine, for the sake of argument that it does become possible to revive those ppl. Even if that happens it will be far far in the future. And then of course when the people discover that everything has been stolen and there is no money in those funds, the perpetrators will be looong gone. Of course it is likely that by that time someone will have stopped paying the bills, the freezers would be switched off and some unlucky municipal government will have a hundred thousand rapidly thawing severed human heads to deal with.

    • by DrBuzzo (913503) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @02:21AM (#30126628) Homepage
      It's not a scam, and even if it were, it wouldn't be a good one. For one thing, nobody is making huge amounts of money on it and for another thing, nobody is making unreasonable promises. Nobody says anywhere that you will be revived or even that it is highly probable that you will. It is well known and never denied that it is speculative. It is well known and not hidden that the technical, biological and chemical aspects of repairing a body that has been ravaged on the cellular level are enormous. It is simply sold as the only shot you have at even possibly maybe perhaps coming back. And that is exactly what it is.

      Of course, a major economic shakeup or an extended power failure could mean you rot. There's no telling what the future holds. They have kept people in the deep freeze for 30 years and continue to maintain them.

      Will these people eventually have their brains scanned into a computer? have genetically modified microbes repair their bodies? I don't know and neither do you. I would say the chances are slim, but they are not zero. On the other hand, burrial or cremation = zero.

      It has also been pointed out that the deep freeze method, even with biological antifreeze does cause a good deal of damage on the cellular level. Of course, this is a big problem. But, it still is the best we have. No, it's far from perfect for preserving someone. Sit there are criticize it all you want, but can you offer something better? I assure you, for all it's flaws, it is orders of magnitude less destructive than the alternatives: Formaldehyde fixation, pasteurization, wax impregnation, dehydration - all these are many many times worse in terms of damage.

      Here is the ultimate question: Would you rather have a possibility of returning of an unquestionable and undeniable zero, or would you rather have a slim chance? Would you take the chance even knowing that the future, even if you are alive, could be a culture shock or you will find that you don't have any money? Some people are willing to take that chance. It's not entirely illegitimate to consider it.


      By the way - entropy is easy to reverse. There's no need for entropy to rise or for it to not be reversible, unless you're in a closed system. We're not in one and I reverse entropy every time I turn on my air conditioner.
      • Using an air conditioner in a room, as a comparison to reversing entropy on someone who has been frozen, is a pretty huge stretch...
    • "The largest cryonics organization today, in terms of membership, was established as a nonprofit organization by Fred and Linda Chamberlain in California in 1972 as the Alcor Society for Solid State Hypothermia (ALCOR)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcor_Life_Extension_Foundation [wikipedia.org]
    • by bkr1_2k (237627)

      Even if micro biology advances it will not be possible because freezing tissue destroys all the cells and turns everything into mush.

      This is an honest question... why do people keep saying this? Frozen meat is still meat when it's thawed, it hasn't lost anything except "life" as we understand it. It still has the same texture, it still has the same consistency, and, if you pass a current through it, the muscle will still contract in some cases.

      Please explain what it means to "turn everything into mush" be

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jdavidb (449077)

      freezing tissue destroys all the cells and turns everything into mush

      Right, that's why if you freeze an embryo, you can't revive it and implant it and expect it to develop into a fetus and later a baby. It's just dead, because it was destroyed in the freezing process.

  • setting aside the issues of the technical difficulties and the uncertainty that you will ever be alive again, and assuming it will happen...

    Put aside money in a trust fund as part of your will and allocate the purpose of the fund to be for the care and upkeep of your body and any needed maintenance to the freezers that is beyond the organization keeping you or to pay for the expense of any procedures necessary for your revival. You can set up a simple trust for this and the interest will compound. Yo
  • It was PROVEN that were you to emerge from a tunnel at a speed of greater then 30 miles an hour, the air blast would kill you. How hard do you drive?

    Lots of things were impossible, before someone did them.

    No, I don't see how someone's frozen head could be revived but think this. HOW many of you think it is possible to create an animal from a cell?

    Yet the idea in Jurassic Park is not nearly as far fetched anymore is it? Used to be that dinosaurs came back in movie land because someone found some eggs that

  • Forget cryogenic temperatures. After I die I want my brain to preserved by injecting it with a polymer that can preserve the positions of all of my neurons. Forget saving my DNA and cells, my DNA is already a mess. Just preserve my neural patterns and do it so my brain can survive at room temperatures for thousands of years. Think of an insect trapped in amber. You can never revive it, but you can take scans of it in a computer to make a "virtual" copy of it in computer memory. That way your "co

    • by slashmojo (818930)

      Android Body with enough computation power

      Not to mention enough electrical power to keep your android body moving for some useful length of time. Assuming you have a life-size humanoid body I would think that that's going to require a lot of power.

  • But I discovered a cheaper way to achieve similar if not better results, there is a thing called sex.
    My heir currently fills his diapers.

  • ..to the world of tomorrow!

    Yeah, you are a head in a jar, your money got ripped off 30 minutes after you were frozen and you owe the government $100 squillion in cryo-tax and you will be kept in this cupboard till you pay up.

  • by goodmanj (234846) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @03:33AM (#30126928)

    So say I run an insurance company. Someone comes to me and says they'll give me a pile of money on the condition I give them a huge payout after they return from the dead. I know that the odds that they'll be back someday are essentially nil. So basically, they want to give me free money. YES PLEASE!

    As a general rule, you shouldn't be surprised that insurance companies will insure you against X, if X is impossible.

  • by jandersen (462034) on Tuesday November 17, 2009 @05:04AM (#30127212)

    destinyland writes "A science writer discovered it's possible to finance your cryogenic preservation using life insurance -- and then leave a huge death benefit to your future thawed self. From the article, 'Most in the middle class, if they seriously want it, can afford it now. So by taking the right steps, you can look forward to waking up one bright future morning from cryopreservation the proud owner of a bank account brimming with money!' There's one important caveat: some insist that money 'will have no meaning in a future dominated by advanced molecular manufacturing or other engines of mega-abundance.'"

  • by rpjs (126615)

    These guys should go read Larry Niven's novel A World Out of Time [wikipedia.org] and decide if they still think being cryogenically frozen is a good idea.

  • You die and get frozen. A death certificate is issued. The life insurance policy pays out and the money is stashed. Many years later a frozen body is revived and (somehow) goes to the bank[1] to claim the money.

    The cashier says "certainly sir, I just need you to provide some identification." And that's where it all falls apart. How does a person (who's officially dead) prove that they're not dead. Especially when all their money is being held by the bank who won't release it until the proof come s through

  • You may also wake up in the future just to find out that revolution has swept away all laws that made self-inheritance possible. So now you're broke, don't speak the language or understand society, and the only work you're apt for is the okral mines on Neptune. So you have to either slave away there to earn your existence or face the molecular disintegrator.

  • When the machine AIs destroy the Earth, we won't be able to cash in though. But we can become famous and rich by writing about life in the 21st century!

    For those that don't get it, read Dan Simmon's Hyperion Cantos, learn about Martin Silenus, and refer to my signature.

  • There will always be meaning for money, though it changes over the generations. People like having a way to distinguish themselves and money is the easiest of these to flash around. Money will always have a place in society, even if we get to some highly enlightened place as a species (which is unlikely in the next few millennia.) We are a caste based species, whether we want to admit it or not, and money is the "new" deciding factor. It won't go away any time soon.

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