Environmental Enforcement Agents Targeting Guitars 379
tetrahedrassface writes "According to the Wall Street Journal, Federal agents again raided guitar maker Gibson this past week, seizing several pallets of wood and computer documents. At the heart of the issue is the wood that is being used in guitars and whether or not it comes from sustainable sources. The company insists it is being harassed and made to 'cry uncle' to the government's enforcement laws. The article notes that exotic fret and tone woods are protected in order to prevent the equivalent of 'blood diamond like trade,' but the ramifications now extend to guitar owners. If you play a vintage guitar, or a hand-built guitar made of old stock woods that were legally obtained years ago, you better not fly with it. John Thomas, a law professor at Quinnipiac University and a blues and ragtime guitarist, says, 'there's a lot of anxiety, and it's well justified.' Once upon a time, he would have taken one of his vintage guitars on his travels. Now, 'I don't go out of the country with a wooden guitar.'"
It's about time (Score:4, Insightful)
LAND OF THE FREE? (Score:5, Insightful)
Innocent until proven guilty?
Burden of evidence on the accuser?
Hope you enjoyed the "War on Drugs". Seizure logic is now your new normal.
Just wow (Score:0, Insightful)
I'm beginning to wonder if I should be proud to be an American anymore...
Comment removed (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Big Deal over nothing. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yup - because all transactions are reversible.
Everything is a luxury.
All markets are infinite.
Regulations are never ever ever corrections to the market. People are not part of the market.
This is why environmentalism has a bad name (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, this is absolutely ridiculous. Arresting someone, fining them, and taking their guitar because they can't trace every last component it's made of? Or fining someone $17,000 with clearly grandfather ivory keys (which everyone acknowledges are legitimate to own) simply because his paperwork was a little out of order? FFS, we wonder why our world is so fucked up when artists (some actually talented people) are forced to put up with shit like that. Hell, I bet taking a Stradivarius out of the country would probably get it "seized" and a major fine levied on you, simply because it would be absolutely impossible to trace all its components.
All this in the name of "environmentalism." Why the hell is a guitar or antique musical instrument even considered a piece of "flora or fauna" anyways? Are we gonna have to register cotton shirts next, to make sure slavery wasn't involved in the manufacture? As a bit of a musician myself (I play violin as a hobby), these sorts of things really piss me off. Laws shouldn't be created to force people to prove the legality of what they are carrying. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? In this case, it looks like you need paperwork proving you're innocence or you are automatically guilty. Also, I don't think the wood used in guitars is a major contributor to deforestation. In fact, I think that ranks right down there as the least possible thing they could worry about. What's next, making sure pipes are made of sustainable sources of wood?
Sure, I know poaching of elephants is a major problem. This sort of BS isn't helping the cause any though.
Re:It's about time (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd miss it. For every dollar that the EPA spends on stuff like this, or even on less frivolous but still apparently controversial things like protected rivers from over use, they spend dozens on things like keeping factories and power plants in check. Lets not forget what things were like before the EPA. CO2 and global warming would be the least of our problems without someone with the authority to prevent outright abuse of the ecosystem.
Dear Music Industry (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems as if for years, you have been using the BanHammer of the Government to force others to comply with your agenda of increased control and profits. Now, that you have gotten what you asked for, why are you unhappy? The environmentalists are getting their agenda pushed by the government, just like yours. Why on Earth would you be surprised. Ohh that's right, you artsy types haven't heard of the law of unintended consequences. Congratulations, welcome to the club of people who realize Government interference in everything isn't a good thing. I hope you enjoy getting what you asked for.
Sincerely,
Everyone else.
Re:LAND OF THE FREE? (Score:4, Insightful)
I believe the point is that it should be the states responsibility to prove that the guitar is made with illegally harvested wood, not my responsibility to prove that it isn't. For the most part, customs/immigration has never really operated on any kind of presumption of innocence and the current climate isn't likely to make that any better.
Re:I love hearing right-wingers complain about EPA (Score:4, Insightful)
Nixon certainly was a right-winger. He may not have been a fascist like most of the current right-wingers, but he was definitely right-wing.
Fascists were left-wing. And in what universe are price and wage controls now 'right wing' policies? If Obama was proposing them people would be calling him a commy.
Re:LAND OF THE FREE? (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't even a compliance issue. The U.S. government objects to the importation of unfinished wood (raw imports), while Gibson has imported finished wood from India. However, the U.S. contends that the wood is not finished ENOUGH, although the Indian government is quite satisfied with the paperwork on their end (no objection and considers the wood properly finished).
So although all the paperwork is technically in order, the US government is on a massive fishing expedition to force Gibson into 'compliance' even though they haven't broken any laws.
Indian article here:
http://m.timesofindia.com/PDATOI/articleshow/9756435.cms
This reminds me of the way the government has sent those mortgage liars to jail:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/business/26nocera.html
Pop the little guys because all the big fish are too hard to catch. Government at work for you.
Re:Please go after Gibson, not my Gibson (Score:4, Insightful)
I think most sensible people would agree that Gibson should have to prove the rare wood used in their factory was legally obtained.
No, people should expect the accuser to prove their accusation, not the defendant.
Re:Musicians (Score:2, Insightful)
I love it when wingnuts try to tell us we should have voted for the octogenarian and rent-a-nitwit. The fact is the we didn't vote for the better of the two; most of us voted for the least worse. True, Obama hasn't lived up to what he promised, let alone what we hoped he'd do, but we're still better off.
I'm happy about this (Score:3, Insightful)
Ebony is one of the slowest growing woods in the world, and it's absolutely central to the incredibly fragile and unique Madagascar ecosystem. As long as there is a illegal market in it, somebody will have the incentive to permanently destroy that ecosystem. What's worse, too few will have the incentive to start sustainable ebony plantations. Somebody needs to close the loopholes, flash some badges and make the punishment hurt, or we will completely destroy Madagascar's forests before we transition to sustainable ebony. We need strict laws if we are to make the transition now.
I can understand why people complain about documentation regarding older instruments, but if there were no such requirement, anybody could just say "Oh, this guitar? Yeah, it's old, the laws don't apply to it!" - which would be a gigantic loophole. Authorities need to have the right to say "Prove that it's old". It sounds like this system needs streamlining, but it's absolutely right that we have it in place.
By the way, I own a bass guitar with an ebony fingerboard and I'm certainly not an opponent of musicians who want the finest instruments. But I'm also an environmentalist, and I don't want musicians to be responsible for destroying the third world that they never visit.