Cameras To Watch Cameras In Maryland 297
Cornwallis writes in with a story reminding cameras everywhere that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't watching you. "Many people find speed cameras frustrating, and some in the region are taking their rage out on the cameras themselves.
But now there's a new solution: cameras to watch the cameras. One is already in place, and Prince George's County Police Maj. Robert V. Liberati hopes to have up to a dozen more before the end of the year.
'It's not worth going to jail over a $40 ticket or an arson or destruction of property charge,' says Liberati."
um... (Score:5, Funny)
That's a race condition if I ever saw one...
Re:um... (Score:4, Funny)
One possible future: two giant cameras watching each other.
(While everybody goes goes about their lives, unhindered).
Infinite Recursion (Score:5, Funny)
That's a race condition if I ever saw one...
Sounds more like an infinite recursion, if you ask me:
installMonitoringCamera(Camera cameraToMonitor) {
Camera monitoringCamera = new Camera(cameraToMonitor);
monitoringCamera.monitor();
if(monitoringCamera.observesSomeAssholeSettingFireToMonitoredCamera())
installMonitoringCamera(monitoringCamera);
}
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Sadly, knowing people, they'll move to a longer range mechanism of destruction, that will be much less feasible to observe with a detection net.
And of course, some of these people will miss. Some of these misses will damage property of innocent 3rd parties, possibly harm innocent bystanders, and possibly even kill innocent bystanders. The sad part is, these people, will pass blame for their actions onto the government, rather than taking responsibility for what they've done, and feel completely justified in
Re:um... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:um... (Score:5, Interesting)
Not that I've given any thought to this in the past...or.....anything....
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I don't doubt that somebody will break out the anti-materiel rifle that they normally use for hunting armored moose; but the more plausible response would seem to involve paintball gear.
It's cheap, it's close to silent, BATF doesn't give a damn about it, so its relatively anonymous, and it coats visible light optics just fine, freeing you to come closer and give your target a dose of tire-iron surprise.
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I don't know why this doesn't happen now. .22 rifle from a few hundred yards. Problem solved AND your gun sighted in.
Re:um... (Score:4, Interesting)
The sad part is, these people, will pass blame for their actions onto the government, rather than taking responsibility for what they've done, and feel completely justified in doing so. The response to this will be the government putting up more cameras...
Well, the blame IS largely on the government, as often these camera programs are slipped in "under the radar", so to speak, as most city/county councils/governments are aware that in many cases most of the constituents are against them. Also to blame are judges that are fine with witnesses that can't be cross-examined (the camera) used to "prove" guilt.
Maybe these camera-snipers would be more effective if they changed targeting priorities to the government officials responsible for pushing these programs and accepting them as legal proof of guilt, if they refuse to listen to their constituents when they object to Big Brother style surveillance? The camera system makers/contractors and the Feds are throwing a lot of gold at these officials to adopt camera surveillance and enforcement systems, so lacking gold, maybe the populace should throw hot lead instead?
Thomas Jefferson and his contemporaries knew that government, despite their best efforts to keep it in check, would grab more and more power and confiscate ever more of the people's wealth. They envisioned the citizens rising up using the 2nd Amendment and forcibly "downsizing" the government every few decades. According to TJ and his buddies, we've been slacking at decorating the trees in the town square and downtown D.C. with government officials swinging by their necks at the end of a rope.
Just sayin'...
Strat
Re:um... (Score:4, Insightful)
Nobody needs to get violent. There still is this thing called a ballot box. Anyone who has voted for an incumbent official no matter where or when is part of the problem. Don't hang the unresponsive officials, but just vote them out and let them get a real job in the private economy, if they can find one.
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it's funny how in the effort to fight a perceived abuse of authority, we find thugs ready to endorse a worse kind of abuse
murder
because of traffic light cameras
what an asshole
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But... (Score:2, Funny)
Who watches the cameras that watches cameras?
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they'll just have more camera to watch those .. ad infinitum ....
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I'm not sure why it is inconceivable that both cameras are in each others' field of view, so that they watch *each other*...
Not that it is necessarily the case, nor do I think this is a good idea... I'm just sayin...
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Which will mean higher power longer range attacks will be used. Thus endangering more people. I am not saying people should do that, but they will.
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I did not even mean hunting rifles. These kinds of cameras are not very high resolution, so even small caliber firearms have enough reach.
Re:But... (Score:5, Interesting)
I would have to agree that you are putting way too much faith in us. I used to work at Mobile before it merged with Exxon, and it was right off the interstate. It was fairly common for bullets to hit the glass as high as the 14th floor.
People love to shoot at things that irritate them, and these cameras are nothing more than revenue machines.
Considering far too many of these speed cameras and the associated street lights they monitor, have been caught shortening yellow light times beyond federal standards to 'catch' people running the light, I would question their motives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6he1M5wexic [youtube.com]
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I hear in the UK paintball guns are the norm.
Apparently, it's to hook a tyre (filled with a bit of petrol) around the elbow in the camera pylon, and then light it ablaze causing enough heat on the camera box that it will self-destruct. At least thats what this site suggests: http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm [speedcam.co.uk]
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Cameras in my town (near Philadelphia, PA) have been shot, run over and set on fire. I've heard of similar happenings in Texas so it wouldn't surprise me. And as further evidence that you either over estimate how responsible people are or under estimate how willing they are to protect their love of speeding our cousins across the pond in the UK have taken to destorying their Orwellian amount of surveilance camer
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I somehow doubt people are using hunting rifles on speed traps, I further doubt that they would do that in america, but maybe I put too much faith in my fellow americans.. Now I would *not* be surprised to hear about this happening in the types of country where everyone walks around carrying high powered rifles all the time, but those countries have much larger troubles than speed traps anyways.
You mean, like Switzerland? Yes, I agree, they do have bigger problems than speedsters, leiderhosen wedgies are horrible!
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Re:But... (Score:5, Funny)
I think he was actually saying that many folks are wearing incorrectly sized leiderhosen.
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Yeah, except the Swiss would never shoot out a speed camera.
Correction: The Swiss wouldn't be speeding in the first place.
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Given that 'bored and/or drunk hicks shooting at the fiber' is an actual cause of outages in rural runs, I'd be overwhelmingly surprised to hear that people aren't using hunting rifles on speed traps...
Re:But... (Score:5, Interesting)
It can more simple than that.
RC Helicopter. Just create a payload with a strong magnet. Fly by, stick it to the camera, and detonate. Small controlled explosion with no collateral damage. Even better, just design something to block the camera itself. Sticks on and is passive. No damage to anything.
What about high powered lasers? Cameras can't be watching everywhere. Set a laser up to hit the camera over a longer period of time and it will be slow damage, but ultimately very effective. Has an added bonus that anybody caught while the camera was an impaired can effectively argue against the ticket due to the damage.
I'm all for civil disobedience and the destruction of these cameras, but that's not an excuse to break out the ol' RPG.
What would be the optimal solution is actual mass protests. Have real human beings blocking cameras and sensors with their own bodies. That stops the cameras from functioning and has the added benefit of a quite visible protest.
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RC Helicopter. Just create a payload with a strong magnet. Fly by, stick it to the camera, and detonate. Small controlled explosion with no collateral damage.
Talk about a geek site solutions
Or, you know, you could just wear a mask or a baseball hat?
Re:But... (Score:5, Funny)
It's cameras all the way down?
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Voyeurs and Xzibitionists.
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Voyeurs and Xzibitionists.
Fans of famous rapper, actor, and ride-pimper Xzibit? Wow they are nicer people than I thought! Or, are they hoping that by watching out for these speed cameras, Xzibit will grace them with a pimped out ride?
Re:But... (Score:4, Funny)
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Oh, shit, I actually didn't think of that... Woosh for me, I clearly need to spend more time studying knowyourmeme.com
Re:But... (Score:5, Funny)
Voyeurs and Xzibitionists.
Yo dawg! We heard you like cameras. So we put a camera on your camera, so your camera can watch your camera!
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LOL, you beat me to it.
Of course, now they'll need a camera to monitor the camera which monitors the speed camera.
Because if you take out the one which prevents you from vandalizing the speed camera, you can then vandalize the speed camera.
It's a freakin' arms race.
Re:But... (Score:4, Funny)
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Pics or it didn't happen.
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{
public:
void watch(Camera * watched)
{
Camera* c = new Camera;
watched->watch(c);
}
}
Excellent! (Score:5, Insightful)
Except... (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no possible way someone would think of destroying the camera-observing-camera BEFORE the speed camera.
Then you end up with TWO broken cameras, and didn't accomplish anything.
Re:Except... (Score:5, Insightful)
Common sense... (Score:2)
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Except that speed cameras are only allowed to take pictures of speeders, so they'll use TWO cameras, speed, watching the speed camera ....and one to watch the camera that watches the speed camera....they'll use THREE cameras.
And then someone will wear a jumpsuit and a ski mask just to prove they can do it.
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Or use, say, a gun, or a crossbow, or perhaps even a well-thrown rock, to destroy it from beyond its range of vision.
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The solution is having three cameras in-line with the speed camera in the middle and the other two watching.
Why did that get dirty all of a sudden?
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There's no possible way someone would think of destroying the camera-observing-camera BEFORE the speed camera.
Then you end up with TWO broken cameras, and didn't accomplish anything.
Except anonymity of both crimes lol.
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Why can it not be used?
If I am mugged in view of a speed camera and it catches the incident, why can they not admit it?
*This is of course assuming it's taking video.
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Maryland speed camera pictures should show an uptick of people in Guy Fawkes masks.
Blind the camera (Score:2)
Doesn't a simple strobe light work?
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Mythbusters disproved the "blind the camera" idea. Along with everything else. They tried multiple ways to fool the speed camera and found nothing.
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So the solution is to trick the camera into constant triggering.
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Re:Blind the camera (Score:4, Insightful)
Besides... do you think they'd show everyone how to defeat a law enforcement device?
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I didn't see that episode. Did they try the slave flash idea? You put a high output flash pointing at where the camera(s) would be when you go through the intersection, with a slave sensor. The moment the traffic cam flashes, the slave goes off, significantly overexposing the image.
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Do you really think that if they found one way that actually worked to defeat the speed cameras, that they would show that on Mythbusters??
I kinda doubt it...
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I seem to remember an episode about cheating on urinalysis tests. At the end they said that they did find one semi valid way to do it but weren't going to disclose it and then pronounced it busted. Or maybe it was the breathalyzer episode... I just don't remember anymore.
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The proper way to handle speed cameras (Score:5, Informative)
Simply burn them. Here are burnt Gatsos in the UK: http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm [speedcam.co.uk]
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I think you're completely missing the point. TFA is saying that they're putting up cameras to watch the cameras. You know, for when people try to do things like burn them.
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That just makes it an arms race. Before long, you get a set of cameras that are mutually pointing at each other, transmitting to a remote recorder. A better solution is to just get the things taken down. A town near here just did that. It's possible, and if everybody hates the things, it shouldn't be too hard to do. I'm really in favor of people running lights getting tickets, not so much of cameras that just snap a picture and send you a ticket.
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Simply burn the cameras watching the speed cameras first. The speed cameras are only allowed to record speeding violations when they occur.
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I think you're completely missing the point. TFA is saying that they're putting up cameras to watch the cameras. You know, for when people try to do things like burn them.
Why not fry it from a moderate distance with, say, a strong magnetron? The equipment could conceivably fit into a van with plastic bodywork, without anyone seeing what's actually going on. With a sufficiently directional antenna, the pulse could be quite reasonable for a mobile equipment. That would make targeting a bit difficult, but I guess the difficulties are not insurmountable.
In Soviet Russia... (Score:5, Funny)
...camera watches camera!
In the United States, it's the other way around.
Gee, that really increases the difficulty (Score:3, Insightful)
Oblig: "Who Watches the Watchmen?" (Score:2)
First of all (Score:5, Insightful)
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get rid of all the cameras (Score:5, Insightful)
Who watches the watchers? (Score:3)
While I can't say I'm a fan of speed cameras, and in fact the thought of vandalizing them has crossed my mind on occasion, the two I encounter routinely in Baltimore County are right out in front of elementary schools with lots of cute little pedestrians around them. So, it's hard for me to be entirely critical of the effort - at least because it does what it's supposed to - it reminds me to slow down before I run over some kid. If instead they were everywhere, I would be much more in opposition to them.
Re:Who watches the watchers? (Score:4, Insightful)
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There are five in our town (part of a "trial period" that's lasted over ten years) and exactly zero are within six blocks of a school. They tend to be in busy intersections, and when I've seen them go off it's almost always because someone has followed a car into the intersection in heavy traffic and gotten trapped there when the light went red. Still a technical violation of the law (you're not supposed to enter an intersection until there is room on the other side to pass completely through) but arguabl
Brought to you by... (Score:2)
The Department of Redundancy Department.
A tool for every job (Score:2)
This is why they make sniper rifles, high power lasers, and explosives with remote detonators. I would have added artillery and other sundry indirect-fire ordnance, but I'm not a big fan of collateral damage, meatsack or otherwise.
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I thought about .50 BMG from a distance, but worried that the slug would pass through the camera and travel off for parts unknown. Wouldn't want to try it. It's important to remember that it's the government at fault, not the population.
second camera not needed (Score:2)
Just mount a mirror so each camera sees itself. Then it will know when it's about to get smacked.
Or even better, a real-time monitor so it can see itself seeing itself....
Department should have been... (Score:2)
Disguises? (Score:2)
But then the spy-camera sales rep probably didn't bring that up when he and the town council went to that luxury resort for the weekend to discuss the camera contract.
PROPOSAL: fines' profit = traffic flow analysis (Score:3)
From the article,
Liberati says the cameras aren't a case of Big Brother nor a cash grab, police are simply trying to keep the public safe from reckless drivers.
That's a hard sell; speeding tickets (et al) pay police/transit dept budgets. This makes it hard for the public to understand that the police are there to help. The problem with speeding is that it can be done safely, and there are plenty of people who regularly speed without risk of accidents. I've encountered more near-accidents created by Highway Patrol than by speeders (which is in part a public stupidity item -- the radar gun already clocked your speed well before you slammed on the breaks and forced the guy behind you to do likewise).
I'm a stats guy. I would support these cameras if they were used for statistical purposes, and I do not support them due to the current money flow. Here is my modest proposal:
Police Brutality Cameras to Follow (Score:4, Insightful)
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Someone put some super bright IR LEDs in a baseball cap. That way normal people wont see it but if hes in front of a camera the light will drown out the image around his face.
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Someone put some super bright IR LEDs in a baseball cap. That way normal people wont see it but if hes in front of a camera the light will drown out the image around his face.
Hmm, like the idea, but I don't always wear a hat...
How bright do you think the LEDs would have to be to obscure my face, if I embedded them in my lapels?
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The issue is the cameras are not perfect and here in my city you could not argue them in court.
So people were getting tickets for speeding or going through red lights even though it was allowed and it was the camera that was inaccurate. (Motion sensor would commonly go off when making a right hand turn which is 100% legal)
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The companies lobbying for speed cameras now are using the revenue from earlier speed camera income to do so. That's a fundamental flaw in how our government is structured, the ultimate cause of many problems. If you allow a company to profit from shady activities, then they can use those profits to hire lobbyists supporting even more of their shady activities, that is a sound business model. You can't expect regular people to out-lobby them; where does their money come from? Me the anti-camera guy, I h
Re:Good. (Score:4, Insightful)
The law is the law, and if the speed limit is 55 or 60 inside Baltimore City then that's what the drivers should be doing. If they find that objectionable rather than destroy the cameras, they should be lobbying to have the speed increased to 65.
Except that my observation is that almost everyone wants to drive above the speed limit. If almost everyone wants to do something, should it be illegal? Perhaps yes, but I think it's a good question to ask.
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Glad I don't live in Maryland, in Missouri you are still entitled to due process of law and jury trial for moving violitions.
In Missouri we also have the Handcock Admenment.
Good video of lawyer getting owned by citizen , about half way through the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFwaX2QRvW4 [youtube.com]
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The speed limit laws are not as important as privacy here. Ultimately, the loss of privacy will prove far more harmful to society than some speeders.
If the speed cameras were only designed to catch speeders and it was impossible to gather mass information that violates citizens privacy I would readily agree with you. However, it is not. They are recording license plates and amassing a database that has only one purpose. Violate citizens privacy.
The whole thing is a farce. If the true purpose of speedin
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Speeding tickets here are as low as $15.
"Court costs" are a total BS $130 or so, though. As if the cost of disposing of my case in 2 minutes actually costs that.