The Tea Party aren't Hobbits by any stretch of the imagination - hobbits are more like 1970's back-to-the-land hippie organic farmer types.
No, the Tea Party seems to be much more like the Easterlings, who's society has been thoroughly corrupted by promises of power regardless of the decency or lack thereof of the individual members. And Obama seems to be playing the role of Denethor, trying to hold back the tide but not really being able to do so and kinda ambiguous about where he's loyalties really lie.
you, sir, have shown me an entirely new level of disrespect for the concept of communication.
If we had respect for the concept of communication, we'd all be speaking dialects of Quenya [wikipedia.org]. But alas, men have made up thousands of mutually unintelligible languages in which to communicate. So when someone makes an error in what might not be one's native language, please don't use such tone when pointing it out.
Yes, I forgot to change "he's" to "his" at some point over the course of rewording the sentence. I realized that mistake somewhere in between clicking "Submit" and the post going up.
My apologies for any confusion that might have caused.
Disagree. In Tolkien's narrative the Hobbits were clearly an analog for simple English villagers that he grew up around. They want to live life without the bother of the ambitious and the power hungry. The Tea Party are those same simple folk, transplanted into our modern era, who have reluctantly decided to get involved. A few years back they were being denigrated as the inhabitants of "flyover states". Nobody cared about them and they didn't matter, until they decided to get involved and upset the status quo. Because both parties represent two faces of the same shit mountain. Choosing between Democrat and Republican is like choosing between Saruman and Sauron.
"They" didn't choose Republicans. First of all, they didn't organize tightly for the express purpose of making the "they" more difficult to apply. The individual chapters are tied together with nothing more than common ideals. Second, about 30% of those identifying with the Tea Party voted for Obama. It was the Man-Child in chief that constantly chose to denigrate them, because they represent a force that is looking to take his major power away, the ability to tax in order to buy votes with.
The Sauron and Saruman presidential bid provided this country with the strong leadership it needed, backed with wisdom and experience. The Gandalf, Aragorn bid gave us a man on his last legs hitched to an unknown forest ranger from a state not even contiguous with the rest of Gondor!
Now, it's true that the Denethor administration left the country in a terrible way, in considerable debt, fighting losing wars on two fronts, and many were uncomfortable with the presidents stance on religious issues, especially funeral rituals. But that is no reason for people to turn away from strong leadership and a prosperous future, in favour of weed smoking, sound-bites about all the free peoples of Middle Earth, most of whom the majority of Gondorian's don't even know exist outside of legends!
I remind the house that in Mordorian society, there are no taxes, and no unnecessary labour or environmental protection, and all that is needed to succeed is drive, ambition, and a phalanx of orc mercenaries. The Sauruman bid allows us to partake in this forward looking society, abandon the failed liberal policies of Eldarianism, and return Gondor to the glories of its manifest destiny, as it was in the days of Ar-Pharazon!
Therefore, I urge citizen to cooperate with the new regime and offer up their young as orc feed as eagerly as I would offer up my own. Thank you, and God Bless Gondor.
"Ea" is the created world (literally: "being", as in a noun formed from the verb "to be"). It should have been "Eru" or "Iluvatar". That said, there's nothing wrong with "God", it is exactly what he is.
Aragorn has been corrupted by marrying a powerful agent of Rivendell. The affairs of men must remain such! The White Council must be kept in its place, performing magic tricks at Birthday Parties.
And what are these hobbits doing in Gondor? Did anyone check their papers? I hear one of them is even taking a job of tower guard away from decent hardworking Gondorians!
The Libs are likely to say it is McCain. I am not sure there is a Gandalf figure around these days, even considering a global view rather then a US one.
Saruman was accounted among the very wise, and there are no politicians on the national stage I can think of whom I would truly call wise. Wisdom is rarely a trait of politicians.
Sauron would have had great charisma--so Obama is closer than the Republican candidates, though some would say less evil, because he is more charismatic.
Charismatic leaders are more dangerous because they can get away with more before the criticism starts, which could well be too late to do anything about it anymore. Judge your leaders by their actions. Not their words and not their looks.
I think claim is that while the Tea Party see themselves as hobbits, the reality of modern politics and finance does not lend itself to fairy tale endings no matter how much the "hobbits" believe their righteous cause and unwillingness to compromise will prove themselves reluctant heroes. The Wall Street Journal was in fact claiming that they were clueless to reality and will greatly harm the Tea Party and Republican cause.
And the Wall Street Journal has access to universal truths that allow them to see the only clear path out of this mess? Right. Pull the other one. It's got bells on it. The Wall Street Journal is another status quo organization. It's paid to say things that it's readers want to hear.
In fact, I don't think there is a way out of this mess. It's just a question of who can keep the broken machine running a little longer. It has been broken for over 50 years and nobody has bothered to fix it. They've just thro
And the Wall Street Journal has access to universal truths that allow them to see the only clear path out of this mess? Right.
If by universal truths you mean "addition", then yes, it appears the WSJ (and the rest of us) have access to those truths while the tea party does not.
The tea party position is that we can not raise taxes and must balance the budget by cutting spending.
That's not mathematically possible, unless we cut federal government to the point that new drugs don't get approved, corporations can
I think claim is that while the Tea Party see themselves as hobbits, the reality of modern politics and finance does not lend itself to fairy tale endings no matter how much the "hobbits" believe their righteous cause and unwillingness to compromise will prove themselves reluctant heroes. The Wall Street Journal was in fact claiming that they were clueless to reality and will greatly harm the Tea Party and Republican cause.
I think of them more as the Jar-Jar Binks of politics. Stupid, annoying, don't really add anything at all in the way of ideas, and ultimately responsible for the destruction of the Republic (well, not _really_, just the unwitting tool of those who sought said downfall).
That's ok, because they all see you as stupid, annoying, don't really add anything at all in the way of ideas, and ultimately responsible for the destruction of the Republic. At least we can all agree on something.
The hobbits are NOT just the members of the fellow ship of the ring but the entire people who believed that if they didn't mind the outside world the outside world wouldn't mind them. The majority of hobbits wanted nothing to do with the outside world problems. Only when the troubles came to them and a few hobbits helped them did they finally make a stand when they had no other option. Scouring of the Shire, the bit that did NOT make it into the movie.
Really kid, READ a book. Just once, it won't bite.
Well, if you RTFA, you would have saw the context of the WSJ article was the hobbits that were heroes and won the war...Really kid, READ TFA. Just once, it won't bite...it was not some great anthropological study of hobbits...it was a sarcastic remark about the Tea Party appearing to be stuck in a fantasy world...
When the tea party stops trying to impose their morality on me perhaps.
Currently they have no real sense to them.
The backman's live off of government money (our evil government funded medical programs and farm subdidyy)I wonder how motivated they willl be to cut things.
Additionally as government shrinks you need more lawwsuits , yet nobody that supports a reduction of goovernment wants to make sueing easier or more attainable.
The Tea Party are not the simple folk who don't want to be bothered. The simple folk who don't want to be bothered are the "silent majority" who are not that interested in getting involved, but when pushed hard enough, or bothered enough will finally join the fight. The Tea Party is "supposed" to represent those people, but so are the Republican and Democratic parties. Realistically, the parties represent only themselves. If we're going to qualify the Tea Party as a distinct and separate party from the
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Thursday July 28, 2011 @12:35PM (#36909830)
You gotta be fucking kidding me. There is nothing simple, wholesome, grassroots, or legitimate about any teaparty candidate. It's an image that's been sold to you and nothing else. These people did not "decide to get involved" there were handpicked by rich conservative interests to front for extreme pro-business and pro-wealthy agenda.
Recent effective uncapping of campaign contributions let private investors buy elections with unrelenting media saturation. You just don't care to question where the money came from. Nobody has ever been to a teaparty fundraiser.
Their voting record reveals the truth. Complete lockstep, unwavering synchronization. Zero deviation among the ranks of a group of people that are supposed to be 'grassroots', 'mavericks', and 'fiercely independent'. They're employees, not politicians.
Fake politics, fake people, fake values, fake truth. This is the modern republicanism. Real conservatives are gone.
"Their voting record reveals the truth. Complete lockstep, unwavering synchronization. Zero deviation among the ranks"
That would match the Democrat and Republican statistics. Most of our current "representatives" could be replaced with central party robots without anyone noticing.
that comparison holds up is if Hobbits were as virulently racist as the Tea Baggers. Seriously; there are more minorites in an Abercrombie & Fitch catalog than any attending a Tea Bagger rally. Be honest; if polled, around 90% of Baggers would state they believe Obama isn't a Christian or a US citizen or both. Their rallying cry wasn't "Budget!", it was "Ni**er!!".
Provide a link. I've never heard any racial rhetoric, or accusations, from any reliable media source. Otherwise I'm just going to assume you have nothing of substance to add and dismiss this ridiculous accusation out of hand.
The cardinal virtues in Lord of the Rings are courage and willingness to sacrifice. The isolationism and disinterest of hobbits in the world at large is not depicted as a virtue, nor is fear and distrust of the elites (the elves and Gandalf) which is characteristic of most hobbits. What makes the laziness, insularity and gluttony of the hobbits acceptable is that they're willing to put them aside; to do without in the service of a greater cause.
"The isolationism and disinterest of hobbits in the world at large is not depicted as a virtue..."
Bullshit.
"nor is fear and distrust of the elites (the elves and Gandalf) which is characteristic of most hobbits."
Double bullshit. Look what happened to the elite Saruman and Wormtongue. Nor is fear and distrust of the Elves and Gandalf "characteristic of most hobbits."
"The refrain you hear over and over is "I want my country back." Can you imagine *Frodo* saying such a thing? "
I reread that chapter every year, and have for the past three decades. Frodo did not fight in the scouring of the Shire, and none of the actions he took were to save his country for *himself*. As for Saruman and Wormtongue, most hobbits didn't know they existed.
Only the ignorant hobbits like Ted Sandyman take no interest in the outside world, or are suspicious of Gandalf or the Elves. The noble hobbits are without exception interested in the outside world and often have surprising connections to it (Bilbo
But the Hobbits didn't ally themselves with Sharky willingly, whereas the Tea-party "we're just common folk" types are gladly in bed with big corporations.
The Tea Party are those same simple folk, transplanted into our modern era, who have reluctantly decided to get involved.
I was with you up until the reluctance part.
There's nothing "reluctant" about the Tea Party. They are an exceptionally vocal minority with a political influence far exceeding their proportion of the population due to their exceptional organization, unity and cohesion. Not to mention the leverage of very, very deep pockets by members who are wealthy capitalists.
No, the closest analogy I can think of is the Sheriffs of the Shire that Frodo and Sam discovered after they returned from Mordor.
It was a sarcastic remark - he was quoting the Wall Street Journal who was saying that the Tea Party rather simplistically see themselves as being heroic good little hobbits out to vanquish the obviously evil Mordor without regard to reality. Basically, the Wall Street Journal was saying the Tea Party worldview was rather fucked up, and McCain was emphasizing this.
According to the WSJ, their view in this instance seems to be that if they shut-down government and cause the US to go into default, that somehow everyone in the country will place all of the blame upon Obama while seeing the Tea Party as heroes, and that this miracle of somehow the general public placing all the blame on Obama will be outweigh the damages in the long run caused by the default and lowering of the US's ratings because the Tea Party would then have free reign to enact all the financial polici
There are Hobbits and then there are Frodo and his friends. The Hobbits pretty much kept to themselves, eating six meals a day, drinking, doing the minimal work, not really advancing the world is what we would call a productive manner. This is pretty much the Tea Party, whining because thier entitlements as white americans are going away.
This is really about entitlement. The US was founded based on the idea that birth did not define one's future. This was basically started in England with the Civil lis
So the guys asking for a balanced budget, reduction in government size/cost, and generally looking to reduce government payouts are the ones "whining" because they're losing entitlements? I think you have it backwards. They don't think anyone is entitled to education, housing, sustenance, and healthcare: they want you to work for it.
Unfortunately, people believe these lies because they, in fact, are the ones who want to remain oblivious to the problems in our nation. Just like Fermion, they want to shoot the messenger, and keep swiping the credit card.
This is pretty much the Tea Party, whining because thier entitlements as white americans are going away.
That's the exact opposite of the Tea Party.
The Tea Party are the working class who spend 40-80 hours a week busting their hump, come home and barely make their ends meet, and then Uncle Sam takes 30% of their money away with a threat of imprisonment, all the while saying "Next year, it'll be 40% because this is simply not enough for me."
What part of "TEA stands for Taxed Enough Already" did you not understand? People who aren't making money are not taxed to the point of frustration. You've been brainwashe
That is a pretty good analogy and description.....of the Democrats - whining about entitlements. The Republicans represent the New Aristocracy and protects their wealth. Nothing you said is an accurate description of the Tea Party though. Start doing your own thinking and stop sealing sound bites from everyone else and you won't present yourself as having no idea what you are talking about.
So you're saying people who don't work deserve nothing but people aren't entitled to a job. So you're saying some people just intrinsically deserve nothing regardless of their willingness to contribute to society? That they need to get busy knowing the right people so they can get work?
That sounds wrong somehow.
If you're going to demand that people work for a living, then by virtue of that demand you DO owe them an opportunity to meet that demand. That is, they are owed a job. Otherwise, they have every mor
If any LOTR character is a good match for the Tea Party, I would have to go with Tom Bombadil. Completely fucking nuts, make absolutely no sense, have an annoying tendency to speak in song, and (hopefully) forgotten by the end of the first book.
If any LOTR character is a good match for the Tea Party, I would have to go with Tom Bombadil. Completely fucking nuts, make absolutely no sense, have an annoying tendency to speak in song, and (hopefully) forgotten by the end of the first book.
I was thinking the Orcs, but that works. I always hated that part, it makes you wonder exactly what Tolkien put in his pipe.
he served as a balance to the drop into the basest worries throughout the book. By showing Frodo Bombadil timeless nature - that of the universes - against evil and the ring in specific, he provided Frodo with the spiritual strength to survive in his darkest moments. Frodo's flashes of insight in mordor about the moon and realization of the passing nature of Sauron's realm got Frodo through his darkest moments... that's the point of Bombadil
Well, that's what all the characters said, but what, exactly, did he do to demonstrate such power? He didn't help the Fellowship at all - you could make a better argument for Boromir being more powerful, since he actually accomplished something. Don't get me wrong: I love Tolkien, but the entire Bombadil thing was just bad storywriting.
Actually, that helps the metaphor. The Tea Party, if you listen to the news, is powerful and will probably wipe out at least one of the major parties, if not upset the entire
If any LOTR character is a good match for the Tea Party, I would have to go with Tom Bombadil. Completely fucking nuts, make absolutely no sense, have an annoying tendency to speak in song, and (hopefully) forgotten by the end of the first book.
Tim! Tim! Benzedrine!
Hash, boo, Valvoline
Clean, Clean, Clean for Gene
First. Second. Neutral. Park.
Heigh the hence, you leafy Narc!
The Tea Party aren't Hobbits by any stretch of the imagination - hobbits are more like 1970's back-to-the-land hippie organic farmer types.
No, the Tea Party seems to be much more like the Easterlings, who's society has been thoroughly corrupted by promises of power regardless of the decency or lack thereof of the individual members. And Obama seems to be playing the role of Denethor, trying to hold back the tide but not really being able to do so and kinda ambiguous about where he's loyalties really lie.
The TEA Party wants LESS government power, not more. Think of them as "Fiscal Libertarians".
So, if they are corrupt, as you say, wouldn't that means they want MORE government power? I think you got it backwards.
they think they are getting that too! That's what's so sad/infuriating! What they are getting is the chance to be controlled by a new master, not the lack of one. One they can't vote out.
As if "less government power" or "small government" was a virtue in itself. That's pretty much the core of the problem, the tea party has no ideology, except for an irrational hate towards everything "government" and in extension, everything democratic. Should they actually succeed to break the US, which is the only goal they seem to share, you'll be able to watch a quite entertaining power grab by them. Expect a feeding frenzy, pigs on the trough.
The TP wants less government power over big business. They couldn't care less if you have to be forced by the government to carry any pregnancy to term.
The Tea Party was a grassroots movement in response to both Bush and Obama increasing the size of the government, with I/R/D fiscal conservatives becoming disillusioned at their lack of good choices at the ballot box.
While Koch is the Soros of the right wing (why not rant about all the crazy shit Soros funds, eh?), he more capitalized on the grassroots movement than started it.
I think the Tea Party is crazy on some issues, like eliminating the Federal Reserve
"It turns out that the tea parties don’t represent a spontaneous outpouring of public sentiment. They’re AstroTurf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by the usual suspects. In particular, a key role is being played by FreedomWorks, an organization run by Richard Armey, the former House majority leader, and supported by the usual group of right-wing billionaires. And the parties are, of course, being promoted heavily by Fox News." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/ [nytimes.com]
Ah, yes, Krugman. A totally unbiased opinion. Even a fairly liberal NPR article on "Is the Tea Party a grassroots organization" admits that is a real grassroots movement, with some opportunists jumping on the bandwagon once it got rolling (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129926390).
They're not astroturf. The TP really is a grassroots organization, as I have friends and family involved with the organization at the local leve
AstroTurf means that there's hardly any real supporters, and what you see on the news have to be paid to show up/Bussed in.
I've been to several Teaparty events, and that wasn't the case. And what about the march on Washington? Are you saying the majority of those people were simply PAID to be there?
Look at the budget battle. The country is already crashing into the ground. If the Tea Party didn't exist, you would see this exact same scene a few years from now as people refuse to loan the US any more money,
It doesn't matter if ALL of funding came from "Baby Eaters Anonymous".
Unless you see "More baby eating!" as a written goal of the party somewhere, it's not part of the party!
You're working off of the old rules. Where the leader can keep it's goals secret until they have the power to implement them. The Tea Party doesn't have one of those, and it's not built that way. The goals are open and distributed so everyone can work on them to the best of their ability, at their own pace.
The TP wants less government power over big business. They couldn't care less if you have to be forced by the government to carry any pregnancy to term.
Strange. Everyone I know that has attended a TEA Party rally doesn't give a rat's ass about big business. They want the federal government out of THEIR lives. Also, abortion is not a TEA Party position. Letting the states decide whether or not to allow abortion, however, is. I've met just as many TEA Partiers that want the legality of marijuana to be state issue as I've met that abortion to be a state issue. And sure, there are those at the really that are just there because they are further right tha
>>The people who attend the rallies are being spoon-fed dogma to guide their votes
I love how your worldview is so distorted, and that you so entirely lack fiscal conservative friends, that you are completely unaware of the amount of voter anger there was in America over our drunken-sailor spending habits in the last 10 years (it's not just anti-Obama, it's anti-Bush as well).
The only way your mind can deal with the cognitive dissonance is to invent the theory that these people *weren't* actually angry
America is no doubt not pleased with the Bush era spending.
But you and your TP moron friends are dead wrong as to the solution.
Over 70% of Americans want the Bush tax cuts repealed, and over half want taxes raised even further on high-income individuals, who have successfully skated on having to pay for what the Republicans did to this nation.
The TP is the epitome of cognitive dissonance, a pretend grass-roots organization whose democratic end goal is the installation of a plutocracy. An organization whose
>>America is no doubt not pleased with the Bush era spending.
Correct. Though to be fair, the stimulus is both Bush and Obama's fault. And a lot of congressmen from both parties.
>>But you and your TP moron friends are dead wrong as to the solution.
Naturally. Your little mind cannot comprehend those scary "numbers".
50% increase in spending, 20% decrease in revenues, in five years. It might hurt your brain cell to realize it, so I'll explain it to you slowly. We've spent too much money.
What you have seen with your own eyes is called "anecdotal evidence", and is not probative. That the Tea Party includes people who believe they created it is their own cognitive dissonance. The facts are clear. It's paid for by people who would sell you for cattle feed.
Ah, but did you read the actual survey, as opposed to the Pew Survey (and other one that agrees with the Pew survey). If you phrase it as keeping the Bush Tax cuts, people are evenly divided between keeping them, keeping them for people $250k, then 72% said yes.
Also, that very NYT survey shows that people favor reducing spending over raising taxes by a 2-to-1 margin.
>>The facts are clear.
The facts are clear in your mind. That people can't disagree with you.
Does their "less government and regulations" include stopping their attempts to ban abortion, teach creationism in schools, etc.?
It looks like a lot of the same old republicans, just pretending they are narrowly focused on the single fiscal issue they have been caught ignoring.
First I cannot fit the Tea Party into Lord of the Rings, there really isn't a faction they relate too. As for Obama, he is Saruman. When he speaks people fall under a spell which removes them from reality. The Democrats and Republicans are Mordor, they are willing to burn up the American public to hold onto power. This means they refuse to accept the reality that there is a limit to other people's money. They are quite willing to throw Main Street under the wheels in favor of political power - both while in
Obviously McCain doesn't understand the story (Score:5, Insightful)
The Tea Party aren't Hobbits by any stretch of the imagination - hobbits are more like 1970's back-to-the-land hippie organic farmer types.
No, the Tea Party seems to be much more like the Easterlings, who's society has been thoroughly corrupted by promises of power regardless of the decency or lack thereof of the individual members. And Obama seems to be playing the role of Denethor, trying to hold back the tide but not really being able to do so and kinda ambiguous about where he's loyalties really lie.
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It was so bad that my mind auto-corrected it inline... Thank you for pointing it out.
If someone's English is better than your Quenya (Score:2)
you, sir, have shown me an entirely new level of disrespect for the concept of communication.
If we had respect for the concept of communication, we'd all be speaking dialects of Quenya [wikipedia.org]. But alas, men have made up thousands of mutually unintelligible languages in which to communicate. So when someone makes an error in what might not be one's native language, please don't use such tone when pointing it out.
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If we had respect for the concept of communication, we'd all be speaking dialects of Quenya [wikipedia.org]
Obviously, that would impose no communicative or epistemological difficulties...
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Yes, I forgot to change "he's" to "his" at some point over the course of rewording the sentence. I realized that mistake somewhere in between clicking "Submit" and the post going up.
My apologies for any confusion that might have caused.
Re:Obviously McCain doesn't understand the story (Score:4, Interesting)
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And picking the Tea Party is like picking Melkor.
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He prefers Morgoth, btw
Re:Obviously McCain doesn't understand the story (Score:4, Informative)
The problem is, it seems when picking their leader they rather went with Saruman and Sauron rather than Gandalf.
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"They" didn't choose Republicans. First of all, they didn't organize tightly for the express purpose of making the "they" more difficult to apply. The individual chapters are tied together with nothing more than common ideals. Second, about 30% of those identifying with the Tea Party voted for Obama. It was the Man-Child in chief that constantly chose to denigrate them, because they represent a force that is looking to take his major power away, the ability to tax in order to buy votes with.
The Tea Part
Re:Obviously McCain doesn't understand the story (Score:5, Funny)
The Sauron and Saruman presidential bid provided this country with the strong leadership it needed, backed with wisdom and experience. The Gandalf, Aragorn bid gave us a man on his last legs hitched to an unknown forest ranger from a state not even contiguous with the rest of Gondor!
Now, it's true that the Denethor administration left the country in a terrible way, in considerable debt, fighting losing wars on two fronts, and many were uncomfortable with the presidents stance on religious issues, especially funeral rituals. But that is no reason for people to turn away from strong leadership and a prosperous future, in favour of weed smoking, sound-bites about all the free peoples of Middle Earth, most of whom the majority of Gondorian's don't even know exist outside of legends!
I remind the house that in Mordorian society, there are no taxes, and no unnecessary labour or environmental protection, and all that is needed to succeed is drive, ambition, and a phalanx of orc mercenaries. The Sauruman bid allows us to partake in this forward looking society, abandon the failed liberal policies of Eldarianism, and return Gondor to the glories of its manifest destiny, as it was in the days of Ar-Pharazon!
Therefore, I urge citizen to cooperate with the new regime and offer up their young as orc feed as eagerly as I would offer up my own. Thank you, and God Bless Gondor.
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Thank you, and God Bless Gondor.
So much perfection destroyed by that one line. Should've been "Ëa bless Gondor."
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"Ea" is the created world (literally: "being", as in a noun formed from the verb "to be"). It should have been "Eru" or "Iluvatar". That said, there's nothing wrong with "God", it is exactly what he is.
Re:Obviously McCain doesn't understand the story (Score:4, Funny)
an unknown forest ranger from a state not even contiguous with the rest of Gondor!
Good point, I never even saw Aragorn's birth certificate.
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Aragorn has been corrupted by marrying a powerful agent of Rivendell. The affairs of men must remain such! The White Council must be kept in its place, performing magic tricks at Birthday Parties.
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And what are these hobbits doing in Gondor? Did anyone check their papers? I hear one of them is even taking a job of tower guard away from decent hardworking Gondorians!
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+1 from me if I had mod points.
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The problem is, it seems when picking their leader they rather went with Saruman and Sauron rather than Gandalf.
Now you lost me... Just who this Gandalf is?
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The Libs are likely to say it is McCain. I am not sure there is a Gandalf figure around these days, even considering a global view rather then a US one.
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Saruman was accounted among the very wise, and there are no politicians on the national stage I can think of whom I would truly call wise. Wisdom is rarely a trait of politicians.
Sauron would have had great charisma--so Obama is closer than the Republican candidates, though some would say less evil, because he is more charismatic.
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Charismatic leaders are more dangerous because they can get away with more before the criticism starts, which could well be too late to do anything about it anymore. Judge your leaders by their actions. Not their words and not their looks.
Re:Obviously McCain doesn't understand the story (Score:4, Informative)
I think claim is that while the Tea Party see themselves as hobbits, the reality of modern politics and finance does not lend itself to fairy tale endings no matter how much the "hobbits" believe their righteous cause and unwillingness to compromise will prove themselves reluctant heroes. The Wall Street Journal was in fact claiming that they were clueless to reality and will greatly harm the Tea Party and Republican cause.
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And the Wall Street Journal has access to universal truths that allow them to see the only clear path out of this mess? Right.
If by universal truths you mean "addition", then yes, it appears the WSJ (and the rest of us) have access to those truths while the tea party does not.
The tea party position is that we can not raise taxes and must balance the budget by cutting spending.
That's not mathematically possible, unless we cut federal government to the point that new drugs don't get approved, corporations can
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I think claim is that while the Tea Party see themselves as hobbits, the reality of modern politics and finance does not lend itself to fairy tale endings no matter how much the "hobbits" believe their righteous cause and unwillingness to compromise will prove themselves reluctant heroes. The Wall Street Journal was in fact claiming that they were clueless to reality and will greatly harm the Tea Party and Republican cause.
I think of them more as the Jar-Jar Binks of politics. Stupid, annoying, don't really add anything at all in the way of ideas, and ultimately responsible for the destruction of the Republic (well, not _really_, just the unwitting tool of those who sought said downfall).
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That's ok, because they all see you as stupid, annoying, don't really add anything at all in the way of ideas, and ultimately responsible for the destruction of the Republic. At least we can all agree on something.
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Tea Party supporters are living a fairy tale, but continuing to spend 40% more than you makes all the sense in the world?
I see.
Read a book (Score:2)
The hobbits are NOT just the members of the fellow ship of the ring but the entire people who believed that if they didn't mind the outside world the outside world wouldn't mind them. The majority of hobbits wanted nothing to do with the outside world problems. Only when the troubles came to them and a few hobbits helped them did they finally make a stand when they had no other option. Scouring of the Shire, the bit that did NOT make it into the movie.
Really kid, READ a book. Just once, it won't bite.
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Well, if you RTFA, you would have saw the context of the WSJ article was the hobbits that were heroes and won the war...Really kid, READ TFA. Just once, it won't bite...it was not some great anthropological study of hobbits...it was a sarcastic remark about the Tea Party appearing to be stuck in a fantasy world...
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When the tea party stops trying to impose their morality on me perhaps.
Currently they have no real sense to them.
The backman's live off of government money (our evil government funded medical programs and farm subdidyy)I wonder how motivated they willl be to cut things.
Additionally as government shrinks you need more lawwsuits , yet nobody that supports a reduction of goovernment wants to make sueing easier or more attainable.
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The Tea Party are not the simple folk who don't want to be bothered. The simple folk who don't want to be bothered are the "silent majority" who are not that interested in getting involved, but when pushed hard enough, or bothered enough will finally join the fight. The Tea Party is "supposed" to represent those people, but so are the Republican and Democratic parties. Realistically, the parties represent only themselves. If we're going to qualify the Tea Party as a distinct and separate party from the
Re:Obviously McCain doesn't understand the story (Score:4, Insightful)
You gotta be fucking kidding me. There is nothing simple, wholesome, grassroots, or legitimate about any teaparty candidate. It's an image that's been sold to you and nothing else. These people did not "decide to get involved" there were handpicked by rich conservative interests to front for extreme pro-business and pro-wealthy agenda.
Recent effective uncapping of campaign contributions let private investors buy elections with unrelenting media saturation. You just don't care to question where the money came from. Nobody has ever been to a teaparty fundraiser.
Their voting record reveals the truth. Complete lockstep, unwavering synchronization. Zero deviation among the ranks of a group of people that are supposed to be 'grassroots', 'mavericks', and 'fiercely independent'. They're employees, not politicians.
Fake politics, fake people, fake values, fake truth. This is the modern republicanism. Real conservatives are gone.
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By European, and even by Canadian standards, the Democrats are a conservative party.... What's gone in the US is liberalism.
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Strong words...too bad you don't believe them.
People stand behind their words when they matter. When they don't, they're just useless whispers from the shadows... Anonymous Coward.
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"Their voting record reveals the truth. Complete lockstep, unwavering synchronization. Zero deviation among the ranks"
That would match the Democrat and Republican statistics. Most of our current "representatives" could be replaced with central party robots without anyone noticing.
Disagree: the only way (Score:2)
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The Tea Party are orcs.
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Well, if you're going to labor the point....
The cardinal virtues in Lord of the Rings are courage and willingness to sacrifice. The isolationism and disinterest of hobbits in the world at large is not depicted as a virtue, nor is fear and distrust of the elites (the elves and Gandalf) which is characteristic of most hobbits. What makes the laziness, insularity and gluttony of the hobbits acceptable is that they're willing to put them aside; to do without in the service of a greater cause.
If courage and sac
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Could I imagine Frodo saying such a thing?
Before or after the scouring of the Shire?
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You obviously missed the point of the book's ending.
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"The isolationism and disinterest of hobbits in the world at large is not depicted as a virtue..."
Bullshit.
"nor is fear and distrust of the elites (the elves and Gandalf) which is characteristic of most hobbits."
Double bullshit. Look what happened to the elite Saruman and Wormtongue. Nor is fear and distrust of the Elves and Gandalf "characteristic of most hobbits."
"The refrain you hear over and over is "I want my country back." Can you imagine *Frodo* saying such a thing? "
You need to reread the penultima
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I reread that chapter every year, and have for the past three decades. Frodo did not fight in the scouring of the Shire, and none of the actions he took were to save his country for *himself*. As for Saruman and Wormtongue, most hobbits didn't know they existed.
Only the ignorant hobbits like Ted Sandyman take no interest in the outside world, or are suspicious of Gandalf or the Elves. The noble hobbits are without exception interested in the outside world and often have surprising connections to it (Bilbo
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But the Hobbits didn't ally themselves with Sharky willingly, whereas the Tea-party "we're just common folk" types are gladly in bed with big corporations.
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The Tea Party are those same simple folk, transplanted into our modern era, who have reluctantly decided to get involved.
I was with you up until the reluctance part.
There's nothing "reluctant" about the Tea Party. They are an exceptionally vocal minority with a political influence far exceeding their proportion of the population due to their exceptional organization, unity and cohesion. Not to mention the leverage of very, very deep pockets by members who are wealthy capitalists.
No, the closest analogy I can think of is the Sheriffs of the Shire that Frodo and Sam discovered after they returned from Mordor.
Re:Obviously McCain doesn't understand the story (Score:5, Informative)
It was a sarcastic remark - he was quoting the Wall Street Journal who was saying that the Tea Party rather simplistically see themselves as being heroic good little hobbits out to vanquish the obviously evil Mordor without regard to reality. Basically, the Wall Street Journal was saying the Tea Party worldview was rather fucked up, and McCain was emphasizing this.
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The tea party world view is not just fucked up, it is naive and childish. They have nn concept of the world we live in and the stupidity is spreading.
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According to the WSJ, their view in this instance seems to be that if they shut-down government and cause the US to go into default, that somehow everyone in the country will place all of the blame upon Obama while seeing the Tea Party as heroes, and that this miracle of somehow the general public placing all the blame on Obama will be outweigh the damages in the long run caused by the default and lowering of the US's ratings because the Tea Party would then have free reign to enact all the financial polici
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This is really about entitlement. The US was founded based on the idea that birth did not define one's future. This was basically started in England with the Civil lis
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So the guys asking for a balanced budget, reduction in government size/cost, and generally looking to reduce government payouts are the ones "whining" because they're losing entitlements? I think you have it backwards. They don't think anyone is entitled to education, housing, sustenance, and healthcare: they want you to work for it.
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Look at the Tea Party whining that the government won't give them jobs.
I am somewhat confused by just where you get this idea. The whole Tea Party movement grew out of an idea that the government is too large.
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This is pretty much the Tea Party, whining because thier entitlements as white americans are going away.
That's the exact opposite of the Tea Party.
The Tea Party are the working class who spend 40-80 hours a week busting their hump, come home and barely make their ends meet, and then Uncle Sam takes 30% of their money away with a threat of imprisonment, all the while saying "Next year, it'll be 40% because this is simply not enough for me."
What part of "TEA stands for Taxed Enough Already" did you not understand? People who aren't making money are not taxed to the point of frustration. You've been brainwashe
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This was basically started in England with the Civil list and the Magna Carter ...
I think you were referring to the Magna Carta. The Magna Carter is Laura [wikipedia.org]
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So you're saying people who don't work deserve nothing but people aren't entitled to a job. So you're saying some people just intrinsically deserve nothing regardless of their willingness to contribute to society? That they need to get busy knowing the right people so they can get work?
That sounds wrong somehow.
If you're going to demand that people work for a living, then by virtue of that demand you DO owe them an opportunity to meet that demand. That is, they are owed a job. Otherwise, they have every mor
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"This was basically started in England with the Civil list and the Magna Carter "
I dunno. The 70s was a long time ago. Is that really relevant today?
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If any LOTR character is a good match for the Tea Party, I would have to go with Tom Bombadil. Completely fucking nuts, make absolutely no sense, have an annoying tendency to speak in song, and (hopefully) forgotten by the end of the first book.
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If any LOTR character is a good match for the Tea Party, I would have to go with Tom Bombadil. Completely fucking nuts, make absolutely no sense, have an annoying tendency to speak in song, and (hopefully) forgotten by the end of the first book.
I was thinking the Orcs, but that works. I always hated that part, it makes you wonder exactly what Tolkien put in his pipe.
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Well, that's what all the characters said, but what, exactly, did he do to demonstrate such power? He didn't help the Fellowship at all - you could make a better argument for Boromir being more powerful, since he actually accomplished something. Don't get me wrong: I love Tolkien, but the entire Bombadil thing was just bad storywriting.
Actually, that helps the metaphor. The Tea Party, if you listen to the news, is powerful and will probably wipe out at least one of the major parties, if not upset the entire
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If any LOTR character is a good match for the Tea Party, I would have to go with Tom Bombadil. Completely fucking nuts, make absolutely no sense, have an annoying tendency to speak in song, and (hopefully) forgotten by the end of the first book.
Tim! Tim! Benzedrine!
Hash, boo, Valvoline
Clean, Clean, Clean for Gene
First. Second. Neutral. Park.
Heigh the hence, you leafy Narc!
(Sorry, it just fell out of my brain)
Re:Obviously McCain doesn't understand the story (Score:4, Insightful)
The Tea Party aren't Hobbits by any stretch of the imagination - hobbits are more like 1970's back-to-the-land hippie organic farmer types.
No, the Tea Party seems to be much more like the Easterlings, who's society has been thoroughly corrupted by promises of power regardless of the decency or lack thereof of the individual members. And Obama seems to be playing the role of Denethor, trying to hold back the tide but not really being able to do so and kinda ambiguous about where he's loyalties really lie.
The TEA Party wants LESS government power, not more. Think of them as "Fiscal Libertarians".
So, if they are corrupt, as you say, wouldn't that means they want MORE government power? I think you got it backwards.
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The TP wants less government power over big business. They couldn't care less if you have to be forced by the government to carry any pregnancy to term.
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I'm part of the Tea Party.
Where in the world has "Less power over big business" been listed as a Tea Party goal?
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Look at your sources of funding. The TP was created by the Koch brothers.
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>>The TP was created by the Koch brothers.
The Tea Party was a grassroots movement in response to both Bush and Obama increasing the size of the government, with I/R/D fiscal conservatives becoming disillusioned at their lack of good choices at the ballot box.
While Koch is the Soros of the right wing (why not rant about all the crazy shit Soros funds, eh?), he more capitalized on the grassroots movement than started it.
I think the Tea Party is crazy on some issues, like eliminating the Federal Reserve
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You are being played for a sucker.
"It turns out that the tea parties don’t represent a spontaneous outpouring of public sentiment. They’re AstroTurf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by the usual suspects. In particular, a key role is being played by FreedomWorks, an organization run by Richard Armey, the former House majority leader, and supported by the usual group of right-wing billionaires. And the parties are, of course, being promoted heavily by Fox News."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/ [nytimes.com]
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>>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/opinion/13krugman.html
Ah, yes, Krugman. A totally unbiased opinion. Even a fairly liberal NPR article on "Is the Tea Party a grassroots organization" admits that is a real grassroots movement, with some opportunists jumping on the bandwagon once it got rolling (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129926390).
They're not astroturf. The TP really is a grassroots organization, as I have friends and family involved with the organization at the local leve
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AstroTurf means that there's hardly any real supporters, and what you see on the news have to be paid to show up/Bussed in.
I've been to several Teaparty events, and that wasn't the case. And what about the march on Washington? Are you saying the majority of those people were simply PAID to be there?
Look at the budget battle. The country is already crashing into the ground. If the Tea Party didn't exist, you would see this exact same scene a few years from now as people refuse to loan the US any more money,
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It doesn't matter if ALL of funding came from "Baby Eaters Anonymous".
Unless you see "More baby eating!" as a written goal of the party somewhere, it's not part of the party!
You're working off of the old rules. Where the leader can keep it's goals secret until they have the power to implement them. The Tea Party doesn't have one of those, and it's not built that way. The goals are open and distributed so everyone can work on them to the best of their ability, at their own pace.
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The TP wants less government power over big business. They couldn't care less if you have to be forced by the government to carry any pregnancy to term.
Strange. Everyone I know that has attended a TEA Party rally doesn't give a rat's ass about big business. They want the federal government out of THEIR lives. Also, abortion is not a TEA Party position. Letting the states decide whether or not to allow abortion, however, is. I've met just as many TEA Partiers that want the legality of marijuana to be state issue as I've met that abortion to be a state issue. And sure, there are those at the really that are just there because they are further right tha
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Don't let reality form yours:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129926390 [npr.org]
The people who attend the rallies are being spoon-fed dogma to guide their votes, while the candidates they elect have an agenda set by the $$'s.
It's a McParty, and it's willing to destroy the country and sell off the pieces.
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>>The people who attend the rallies are being spoon-fed dogma to guide their votes
I love how your worldview is so distorted, and that you so entirely lack fiscal conservative friends, that you are completely unaware of the amount of voter anger there was in America over our drunken-sailor spending habits in the last 10 years (it's not just anti-Obama, it's anti-Bush as well).
The only way your mind can deal with the cognitive dissonance is to invent the theory that these people *weren't* actually angry
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America is no doubt not pleased with the Bush era spending.
But you and your TP moron friends are dead wrong as to the solution.
Over 70% of Americans want the Bush tax cuts repealed, and over half want taxes raised even further on high-income individuals, who have successfully skated on having to pay for what the Republicans did to this nation.
The TP is the epitome of cognitive dissonance, a pretend grass-roots organization whose democratic end goal is the installation of a plutocracy. An organization whose
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>>America is no doubt not pleased with the Bush era spending.
Correct. Though to be fair, the stimulus is both Bush and Obama's fault. And a lot of congressmen from both parties.
>>But you and your TP moron friends are dead wrong as to the solution.
Naturally. Your little mind cannot comprehend those scary "numbers".
50% increase in spending, 20% decrease in revenues, in five years. It might hurt your brain cell to realize it, so I'll explain it to you slowly. We've spent too much money.
We need to r
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I don't have maniacs in my family, and don't consider idiots my friends.
Seventy-two percent support raising taxes on income above $250,000 [nytimes.com]
What you have seen with your own eyes is called "anecdotal evidence", and is not probative. That the Tea Party includes people who believe they created it is their own cognitive dissonance. The facts are clear. It's paid for by people who would sell you for cattle feed.
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Ah, but did you read the actual survey, as opposed to the Pew Survey (and other one that agrees with the Pew survey). If you phrase it as keeping the Bush Tax cuts, people are evenly divided between keeping them, keeping them for people $250k, then 72% said yes.
Also, that very NYT survey shows that people favor reducing spending over raising taxes by a 2-to-1 margin.
>>The facts are clear.
The facts are clear in your mind. That people can't disagree with you.
If you've actually gone out and talked with
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How's that Hope and Change working out for ya? Don't pretend politics are different in any other party.
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Talk about being deluded, Obama is Saruman (Score:2)
First I cannot fit the Tea Party into Lord of the Rings, there really isn't a faction they relate too. As for Obama, he is Saruman. When he speaks people fall under a spell which removes them from reality. The Democrats and Republicans are Mordor, they are willing to burn up the American public to hold onto power. This means they refuse to accept the reality that there is a limit to other people's money. They are quite willing to throw Main Street under the wheels in favor of political power - both while in
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They're the Ents, obviously. Slow-moving and a little bit stuck-in-their-ways, but finally pissed off enough to uproot and go on the offensive.
?Easterlings? (Score:1)
No, the Tea Party seems to be much more like the Easterlings
I am an Easterling you insensitive ...
Seriously, it has been a long time sense I read the hobbit, were there really a people in the book called the Easterlings?