HP Shatters Excessive Packaging World Record 359
An anonymous reader writes "HP customers will be familiar with their bizarre packaging practices (5 pounds of packaging for 8 license keys!); lets just say this story is not an isolated incident ... " I've seen some excessive packaging, but perhaps nothing to top this.
Crazy (Score:5, Funny)
I've seen something crazy, but not that crazy. That's just ... crazy.
Re:Crazy (Score:5, Funny)
Could it have something to do with the wording of the "shrink wrap license"? Like "by opening this box you agree..."?
That would be really depressing.
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More like "by entering"... (Score:5, Funny)
By venturing more than 3 feet into the depths of this 'box' you agree that any encounters that may result between the entrant and any:
I - trolls
II - goblins or
III - beings of origins
a - Extraterrestrial
b - Indeterminate
c - Unknown
are the sole responsibility of the recipient.
Furthermore, you agree that any objects discovered therein, including but not limited to:
I - treasure,
II - artifact,
III - relics of historical significance, or
IV - the shipped product
are to remain the property of HP, inc. in perpetuity and are to be returned with 28 calendar days, with attachment of a check for the full value of any life insurance policies, savings, properties or outstanding paychecks of any of the intended package recipients who may have perished within.
Re:More like "by entering"... (Score:5, Funny)
You enter the box. It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Crazy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Crazy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Crazy (Score:5, Funny)
One could just imagine that each would come from HP inside its own 40' shipping container filled with those "environmentally friendly" peanuts that turn into snot when they get wet... LOL
Re:Crazy (Score:5, Funny)
You can scatter those things outside; they're just starch. Something will eat them. Maybe birds? If I don't have too many to deal with I just flush them.
Don't do any of that if they're styrofoam. Those have to be thrown out or reused. Although if you have even a little acetone you can have fun with the styrofoam ones. They vanish right into it, way better than the starch ones do in water. One prank people used to pull in the labs where I went to college (I only heard about this) was to hand the new guy a styrofoam cup and tell him to go downstairs and get some acetone.
Can also be done with Xylene! (Score:3, Informative)
It can also be done more cheaply with Xylene (paint thinner). I just love to see huge chunks of styrofoam melt into a goo! :D Plus if you're really out for a good time, the resulting goo should still be flammable...obviously there are safety and environmental issues there though.
Re:Can also be done with Xylene! (Score:5, Informative)
It can also be done more cheaply with Xylene (paint thinner). I just love to see huge chunks of styrofoam melt into a goo! :D Plus if you're really out for a good time, the resulting goo should still be flammable...obviously there are safety and environmental issues there though.
Back in high school, we used to mix Styrofoam and gasoline. We'd hit the furniture store dumpster after closing on delivery-day and load the cars up with all the Styrofoam we could stuff in. Then go out to the desert, pour a couple of gallons of gas in a waste basket and start chucking in the Styrofoam. Pour our the resulting sludge and light. It burns hot and burns for a long time.
Very environmentally unfriendly and you're likely to inhale way too much vaporous gasoline, but good fun for juvenile fire-bugs.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
One reason for using boxes is that they are harder to steal by dropping them in a pocket. But ONE of those inner boxes would have sufficed without being complete overkill. Though common sense calls for a 9x12 envelope or mailer.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
One reason for using boxes is that they are harder to steal by dropping them in a pocket. But ONE of those inner boxes would have sufficed without being complete overkill. Though common sense calls for a 9x12 envelope or mailer.
Many companies send far more important documents in ordinary envelopes by courier.
Re:Crazy (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not just overseas mail... international mail TO the US suffers that way, also. A few years ago, my father tried to send me a box of chocolates from Europe (Belgian chocolates, sent from England). Like a fair amount of my overseas mail (and my baggage, every time I fly here! I should've known better than to study the effects of terrorism on a democracy for my Master's - and admit it once to an immigration official who promptly searched me!), it arrived with a little slip indicating that it had been inspected. The box of chocolates was intact with one minor detail: all the chocolate was gone! A perfectly formed box, re-taped shut... but no chocolate.
Last Christmas, I talked to a few (usually also immigrants) people who had their Christmas purchases in the US arrive opened, also.
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LOL
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It was at that point I thought a change in career would be a lucrative decision. I figured if I could be the corrugated supplier for HP, I'd be all set.
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I can top that (Score:5, Funny)
MSDN (Score:5, Insightful)
And I thought the MSDN CDs ya get posted were bad.
They come in a box about the size of an Eee PC (but taller), and contain just a CD in a sleeve cover.
Re:MSDN (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:MSDN (Score:5, Funny)
I've had a box the same size for a charger adapter. Perhaps it is the only size of box they have?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
HP has given me boxes that size for 4 screws in a plastic bag, wrapped in foam. Repeatedly.
If they do this so regularly as your comment and many others seem to suggest, I just cannot help but wonder: How do things go so wrong to begin with? Also, one would think that the errors of their ways ought to be completely obvious to anyone involved, so whyever do they not fix it?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh, and on another
No wonder HP is a mess. (Score:5, Insightful)
Cost of shipping 150$?
Entry in Roget's Thesaurus: (Score:5, Funny)
Nothing new here (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds about typical for HP. Back many years ago when I was primarily an HP-UX SA, excessive packaging was the norm as well.
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Re:Nothing new here (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Nothing new here (Score:5, Informative)
But... but... HP and Dell scored top marks from Greenpeace. Clearly the packaging was needed to protect the license papers which means you'd kill more tree for more paper if they are damaged.
[This also show that Greenpeace ranking is irrelevant]
Re:Nothing new here (Score:4, Interesting)
While I'm not familiar with how Greenpeace came up with its ranking, I do know that the book "Paper or Plastic: Searching for Solutions to an Overpackaged World" by David Imhoff included an anecdote that HP reduced packaging and lowered supply-chain losses and costs all in one.
Instead of shipping printers (perhaps only a certain model or type) in individually-packaged boxes on skids, HP had a tray-like thing (like what you get at a fast food place for drinks) that held many printers. This was then wrapped with clear skid wrapping.
Because they weren't boxed individually, you could fit many more on each skid. Because the contents were visible from the outside, forklift operators were more careful and there was less damage in warehouses.
It is very likely that HP pre-packages its licenses in these boxes, and the economics of it probably works out that most of them are sent individually. It is thus simpler for them to send out many individually-packaged boxes to customers who purchase multiple licenses, than to have someone remove the papers from the boxes in the warehouse, find an appropriate envelope to put them in, and then do something with the box.
You, the customer, would no longer get the many boxes, but they would probably be used and discarded further up before they get to you, analogous to when recycling bins get emptied into the same dumpster as the trash.
- RG>
(the "idle" comment form is really weird in SeaMonkey)
Re:Nothing new here (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet, with all that thought going into your post, you don't seem to address the "why the hell would you use a foam-lined cardboard box for two sheets of paper in the first place" question.
Re:Nothing new here (Score:5, Funny)
His point is like a package from HP... Lot's of useless packaging but somewhere in there lies a small kernel of relevance.
Your task is to unpack and find it.
Re:Nothing new here (Score:4, Insightful)
As long as you landfill the boxes aka sequester the carbon, you are removing CO2.
Re:Nothing new here (Score:4, Interesting)
The question is thus why are HP "pre-packing" them in boxes, rather than envelopes, in the first place?
Re:Nothing new here (Score:4, Insightful)
...or perhaps Greenpeace takes into account more than packaging? I mean really, you're declaring their whole environmental study invalid based on a few anecdotes about excessive use of cardboard?
[Disclaimer: In general, I don't trust Greenpeace numbers, but even then, the parent's argument is off.]
what Greenpeace takes into account (Score:3, Informative)
Shipping department (Score:5, Insightful)
Often times when you ask the shipping department to take care of a package containing hardware, let's say in a 12 x 12 x 4 cube, they are nice enough to protect by putting it in a box with extra padding. Sometimes, when you note it's out of IT and don't notice it's already reboxed, they'll do it again.
This is not that unusual. Clearly they ship out their licenses in a box. I'd just use an envelope like those free ones from the shipping companies. But why ask why, put it in a box. Got many boxes? Put the boxes in a box.
Why not be thoughtful and put 32 pages in one box? This presumes the shipping department knows what's in the box, and even they know, why would they want to deal with all these extra boxes when they can ship them off to the customer.
You get what you measure (Score:5, Insightful)
HP network printer / scanner (Score:4, Informative)
My experience with HP have been increasingly disappointing. Recently I contemplated the purchase of an HP network printer / scanner. Most network printers with an integrated scanner implement the scanner as a host-based scanner over USB. The HP unit I found seemed to be the exception. Until I read the data sheet more closely. The network scanner degrades resolution to 200dpi. For full resolution scanning, dust off your host-based USB interface. What I found annoying about this is that the brochure blithely advertised "network scanning" as fully supported.
I have a colleague who swears by HP at the enterprise level, but at this point, I wouldn't buy a consumer level appliance unless I had first exhausted the alternatives.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Did they give him a read T-shirt as a freebie?
Re:HP network printer / scanner (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, but he's still trying to find it in the 40-foot tall pyramid of 18" boxes lashed together with packing tape.
How does excessive packaging happen? (Score:5, Interesting)
No need to worry, John. HP is in a Slashdot story. There will be very capable people, I think, who say to themselves, "Maybe I should apply for a job at HP. Nah, maybe not."
The parent comment says, "My experience[s] with HP have been increasingly disappointing. Recently..."
That's been our experience, too. HP seems to be getting a little better, however, now that Carly Fiorina [hp.com] has left. Before, it was REALLY ugly.
How does excessive packaging happen? It happens because people become so unhappy working for a company that they slip into becoming robotic drones. Nothing matters. They just try to get through each day. Illogical packaging is only one of the many, many illogical things that happen every day. Those people never go to hell, because if they arrive there, Satan says, "You've suffered enough. You don't belong here."
Re:How does excessive packaging happen? (Score:4, Insightful)
It appears that Carly is now one of McCain's campaign advisers. May she do as well with McCain's campaign as she did at HP.
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This is a load of rubbish. I agree that licenses are shipped in excessive packaging. I've seen things like that box delivered in that way to more than one customer indeed.
However, there are probably good reasons for these practices. HP, like any company, has product numbers attached to licenses. So when you buy a license from HP, you are buying a product.
These products are "manufactured" or "assembled" in a "factory". This line of reasoning stems from the fact that HP traditionally is a Hardware Shop.
This m
Re:How does excessive packaging happen? (Score:4, Insightful)
MODS: That was *FUNNY* Not INSIGHTFUL (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally experienced _much_ worse (Score:5, Interesting)
(Posting anonymously for obvious reasons)
When working for a spin-off of HP, we did a licence audit and decided we needed 500 or so C++ compiler licences for compliance. Order them. Expect a single A4 sheet back saying we're covered.
Instead, we get a pair of huge 2m x 2m x 2m boxes, on shipping palets, containing 500 smaller A4-sized cardboard boxes, each containing an A4 paper licence. This was soul-destroying fail of the highest level and led me down the path to BOFH-dom.
Re:Personally experienced _much_ worse (Score:4, Funny)
lol... paying for a C++ compiler. You're funny, I like you.
Re:Personally experienced _much_ worse (Score:5, Interesting)
lol... paying for a C++ compiler.
You're funny, I like you.
People did this in the old days. I once paid for the ACC compiler as well (I guess that's the one), because GCC was "open source" which was utterly distrusted by everyone. How times have changed - now the place is full of Linux systems, the few remaining HPUX machines will be replaced as soon as is convenient, and Sun? The only one I've seen in the last five years is the one in the sky.
ACC, while a bit shaky in its implementation of the C++ standard, at least produced great error messages. Typically it did not just tell you what was wrong and where, but also what it thought you needed to change to fix it. And mostly it got it right too!
"In file xxx on line yy, function FooBarBaz is undefined. Maybe you meant to call function FooBarBoz?"
Really, all it was missing was an interactive mode where you could just tell it to change the source for you...
People still do this too (Score:4, Informative)
It's called the ICC, Intel C Compiler. The reason people pay for it is because it is the fastest damn compiler out there. Every time I see compiler tests done there is always some back and forth, some are faster at one thing, some at others. Newer ones are generally faster than old ones... Then, at the top of the pack, is ICC. It produces the fastest code in EVERY test.
Now if this were Intel marketing material, ok, but this is every test of the compilers I've ever seen done by third parties. Intel's compiler just knows how to produce extremely optimised code for their processors.
As such, it is no surprise that people buy it.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I have yet to see a benchmark (on Intel hardware of course) where the ICC is beaten. GCC 4 is much faster than GCC 3 at just about everything (there's a couple odd tests where it's not, or at least the version they were testing wasn't) but it doesn't compare to the ICC.
Not really a surprise. GCC is a very general compiler targeting lots of architectures, whereas the ICC is just for one. Also the people writing ICC have access to the people that designed the chip.
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Good god (Score:4, Funny)
Remind me to never request a printed manual from HP. Every page would be in a different box.
Now that is _truly_ dirty paging. Yikes!
That's nothing... (Score:5, Funny)
Office Depot is pretty close (Score:5, Interesting)
.
I repeat: 1 roll of scotch tape in an huge box full of peanuts. Shipping was free.
P.S. I have have the receipt but not a picture of the box as it was in 2006.
Sun can be just as bad (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sun can be just as bad (Score:5, Insightful)
There's actually a good reason behind why the power cord(s) is/are packaged separately, and hence in their own boxes - international differences in electrical sockets.
It would suck for inventory and man power if you constantly had to manage how many of each of your servers have continental europe, british, north american and so on power cords with them in the box.
Just like their apps (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
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the 20mb one you have to search for, the easily found one is the one with all the crap that's over 200MB.
Send em back (Score:3, Funny)
Tell them you already got your license entitlements via BitTorrent.
Apple... (Score:2)
...wins the wasteful packaging contest IMHO. My Leopard CD and trackpad protecting sticker arrived in a box that was filled with brown paper and was large enough to fit two LCD monitors.
Several years earlier, I ordered a Firewire-to-USB connnector for my old iPod and it arrived in a box that was 5x bigger than the package AND was literally packed with nothing but air...in the form of plastic air-filled balloons.
I'm surprised they don't ship their MacBook Air in a depleted uranium case in order to maintain
email? (Score:4, Funny)
Weird, I use email to ship keys. Its faster and *much* cheaper.
PC's from IBM (Score:4, Informative)
Happens with a lot of companies I have known. One company ordered around 40 new PCs' from IBM. The PC's arrived from IBM in a pair of 2m x 2m x 2m cube boxes on the inside of the container. The driver asked if our IT department happened to have a forklift truck available as it would save time unloading.
Well, we didn't, so we had to cut open the boxes and make a little door so we could get in - they had been filled to the brim with styrofoam peanuts and promptly flooded the back of the container before spilling onto the parking lot.
Then, one by one we got the monitors and main units out - all two hundred of them. By the time we were finished, there were enough styrofoam peanuts on the ground to visualize the airflow around the building. They would form streamlines and vortices all around the parking lot. It was our job to chase after every single one for recycling.
Now, mail-order companies seem to enjoy putting the smallest items in the largest boxes. Once ordered some new memory cards and hard disk drives. Each order arrived in a large desktop PC sized box filled with large plastic air-bubbles (empty sealed plastic bags filled with nothing but air), styrofoam peanuts or foam padding. In each case, the padding took up about 20 times as much space as the original item.
No prank (Score:5, Insightful)
At first I thought this was just a prank pulled by someone who didn't like HP, but after reading the comments I seem to have to believe it's true. It makes you see this [hp.com] in a whole new light.
That's What She Said (Score:5, Funny)
My...that's a big package.
Dell isn't much better, though (Score:5, Interesting)
Look at the packaging for a few screws [thedailywtf.com]!
Non Geek Packaging Record (Score:5, Funny)
This is the craziest I've ever seen personally.
A box arrived in the mail. It was maybe 10 x 6 x 4 or so. Inside that was a manila envelope. Inside that was a small box, slightly larger than a jewlers ring box. Inside that was a clear plastic pill bottle. Inside that was a small ziploc baggie.
Inside that was ONE styrafoam bead, like from a beanbag chair. it was the replacement foam bead for an anemometer.
Method to the Madness (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
When working for a software distributor 12 years back, we had that exact problem: server software license keys worth about 100k USD were sent by the software maker in plain envelopes. At first, we sent them on to the customers in that
Not to mention... (Score:5, Funny)
Had a similar experience with them. (Score:4, Interesting)
Wow! Looks like HP has gotten more efficient in their shipping.
About ten years ago I get back from lunch to find a huge box at my desk. Typical workstation plus monitor size box from HP with a shipping label was like 4ft+ cube. Was not exactly sure what it was so got to openning it. Inside that box was another slightly smaller box also with a shipping label listing one HP address to another HP address. This went on for quite a while til I got to a small box with padding. (If I recall the stuff have been shipped a total of 5 times adding several boxes each time) Inside that box was a large manila envelope. Inside manila envelope was a white envelope (or might have been the other way around) it has been a while. Inside that was a single 5" by 6" sheet of paper with a single license for the HP-UX 9 C++ compiler.
I had order 5 licenses... the next day another of the licenses came, though at least the outer box was not quite as large. I often wondered if it was either that there shipping system was set up for just sending license keys or if they really wanted to make sure that piece of paper didn't get lost in the mail.
The other odd thing was the licenses didn't include any serial numbers or what not, just the B code number for the software and a statement about it being 1 license.
It's not just packaging... (Score:3, Insightful)
I worked for HP for several years, so this is personal experience.
For a High Tech company, they are still extremely retarded in the way they handle things.
Here are some examples:
Leave application forms. Go to a website, fill in a form and then print it and fax it to your manager. There is no way to "submit" the form to a database which then emails the manager. I was probably one of the first people to print-to-pdf and email it instead.
Procurement: Once when I moved roles within HP, I needed to order a laptop. So I ordered a laptop, docking station, and carry case. These were standard laptops. The order processing centre was located in Singapore or Malaysia, and so the laptop, the docking station and the carry case were air freighted to me from Singapore even though my office was about 5 Kms from their Warehouse in Sydney.
I hope I get the same thing (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It's the other way around. You'll receive a shipping box so you can mail yourself to your new location.
Given what I've read so far, however, you can expect to travel in luxury aboard a whole shipping container.
This is actually pretty easy to explain... (Score:3, Insightful)
Apparently they inherited this (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember getting a set of VMS manuals from Digital. It was a very large box, very heavy (a set of VMS manuals weighed over a hundred pounds.) The books didn't fix the box exactly, and in the box was another box, empty, labeled "Empty Filler Box".
Oracle did something this too (Score:3, Funny)
I am a Oracle Magazine subscriber (free magazine, totally useless but great when I need quality paper for packaging). Once they sent a "special edition" magazine with a promotional CD included; it was sent in a standard A4 envelope. Well, the Oracle guys decided it was a really important CD and sent me another copy, just to make sure. It was in a paper CD envelope, like Ubuntu's free CDs, but the paper was much thinner. The paper envelope was put in bubble wrap, and the bubble wrap was put in a cardboard box the size of a 500-page A4 paper pack. The cardboard box was sent as a DHL package, the delivery was priced something like $20-$30 (paid by Oracle). And the best part? The DHL-shipped version arrived a month later than the copy I received with the magazine (and probably was free for Oracle to ship since they already paid for shipping the magazine).
Intel protocol license (Score:4, Interesting)
A while ago, our company ordered an upgraded protocol license for some Intel telecommunications gear.
A few days later, a big box shows up -- I think a 2 x 2 x 2 foot cube. In that box was a wad of packing peanuts, as well as a padded envelope...
When we opened the envelope, we expected to find a license button, which would be physically installed in our equipment. There would be no reason to ship that in a large box, but at least a license button would have been some tangible product that justified shipping.
Alas, the envelope contained no license button after all. Instead, it contained a single sheet of paper complete with instructions on how to access a web site, and a validation code to use. That validation code would then give us an actual license key, which we could then enter into our equipment to unlock the extra protocol features (that were already built in to the equipment).
I can't quite put my finger on it, but something seems a little wasteful here... I'm *sure* if somebody thought hard about this, they could probably find a way to do the whole thing electronically...
Could it be that ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Alternatively I expect someone totally bored and with a sense of humour at work.
Shipping Licenses in Boxes started at DEC (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe the notion of shipping licenses in boxes started at Digital Equipment Corporation. The idea was that by shipping it in a box, it was less likely to be thrown away (as "worthless paperwork") before reaching the technical person who would understand its value. That idea seems to have survived two changes of corporate ownership, so maybe it's correct.
That's nothing new (Score:3)
Back when HP was Compaq I once received a shipment from them consisting of one 60cm x 100cm x 100cm box completely filled with loose styrofoam packing chips. At the very bottom of the box, where none of the packing material would do it any good at all, was a plastic envelope containing a handful of license keys.
At least the guys who shipped this package made sure that their paperwork was protected from damage. It seems they're learning.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That statement did not sit well with me, so I did some research. Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] seems to indicate that a good chunk of the deforestation done is to produce paper.
Personally, I think hemp should be more commonly used to create paper. It grows quickly, and has many uses. Hell, even the US constitution is written on hemp.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You are spot on with this comment. The problem with hemp is the fact that it is called hemp and this word is synonymous with marijuana so in the eyes of the public it is bad and for some competing business this is a good thing to foster. What many people fail to realise is that linen which is still a prized fabric is actually made from hemp and line
Re:It's not the heat, it's the stupidity. (Score:4, Informative)
... What many people fail to realise is that linen which is still a prized fabric is actually made from hemp and linen can last quite a long time...
I don't think so. Linen is made from Flax fibres http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linen [wikipedia.org] as a simple wiki reference can confirm. My grandparents grew up in an area where flax was grown for linen production.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
When I was doing my BS in Bio, one of the profs had a contract to do research for SE Asia - where they do grow hemp for textiles & rope. There were at least 4 Bankers Boxes of paperwork for this project - along with a security greenhouse.
Radioactive materials could be had from the Physics supply closet
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Regardless, hemp is a very useful plant. And the very first paper mill in your country was started by Thomas Jefferson, and it made paper from he
Re:It's not the heat, it's the stupidity. (Score:5, Insightful)
Paper recycling is pointless. It biodegrades...
Theoretically. Practically, no, not once it goes into a landfill. That's why you can still find readable newspapers from half a century ago.
As a rule [bpiworld.org], stuff doesn't really biodegrade [about.com] once it goes to the dump. [science.org.au]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Paper also takes energy to produce, as well as recycle. Of course, as the moment something is of interest to environmentalists both the pro and anti sides immediately dash out, cherry pick the data they like from the scientific literature, and then declare the extremes of the range all over the internet, it'
Re:It's not the heat, it's the stupidity. (Score:5, Insightful)
'Here is a list of things recycled paper is environmentally better for than virgin paper: less bleaching, less energy, less pollutants, more benign pollutants, less impact on natural resources, less water, less waste to dispose of. The only waste product that is more of a problem with recycled paper is the sludge produced by removing ink and additives. However, this sludge is material that would otherwise be in landfills and it has repeatedly been proven to be non-toxic.'
- From The Society for Natural Resources Conservation, Cornell University
Yeah, I know you're going to come back at me with a quote from Rush Limbaugh or some advertisement you saw on tv... Or dismiss Cornell University as a hippy haven of intellectuals... Whatever.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
As for trees? Do you still think we live in the days of lopping rainforests? Majority of cardboard and paper are harvested from tree FARMS! Fast growing ones designed for making paper
Only in parts of the world where we've already chopped down all the readily available trees.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Penn & Teller: Bullshit
Nice source. A second rate Vegas act featuring a fat loudmouth and a mute. And of course they have no political agenda [theadvocates.org]. Guys like this are the reason mainstream voters are frightened of Ron Paul.
Re:It's not the heat, it's the stupidity. (Score:4, Insightful)
No its the fact that Ron Paul is a nutbar is the reason that people don't like Ron Paul.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I can recall getting DEC licence paks in envelopes, and reasonably sized boxes of CDs. I don't recall anything excessive at all.
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I would hope you'd remember to change the policy after doing that.