Building a Homemade Nuclear Reactor In NYC 219
yukk writes "Mark Suppes, a web developer for Gucci, is working on his own personal fusion reactor. His work in a NYC warehouse using $35,000 of his own money and $4,000 raised on a website has made him the 38th independent researcher recognized as creating a working fusion reactor. How's that for a hobby?"
Neat (Score:3, Insightful)
This is really cool. Though I'd guess that the neighbors will be up-in-arms soon, even if you tell them it's completely safe.
Re:Neat (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Neat (Score:5, Funny)
We all saw spiderman 2.
And we all want the 2 hours of our life back.
Re:Neat (Score:4, Funny)
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We all saw spiderman 2.
And we all want the 2 hours of our life back.
Meh. I think it's one of the better superhero movies out there.
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Actually, some of us skipped it. Maybe I'll catch it when it comes on TV in 10 years. It was 2 hours spent very well elsewhere. :)
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Obviously his insurer needs to know it cost him $35k when some yahoos decide to grab his fusion machine after they read about it.
This would explain why SOME DIY Fusors cost hundreds of dollars, but this one costs $35k, its a Gucci.
Re:Neat (Score:5, Funny)
Up in arms? Like perhaps EIGHT arms?
Re:Neat (Score:4, Funny)
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Here's your Ghost Busters reference at XKCD [xkcd.com].
Gee, Dad... (Score:2)
fusioneers (Score:5, Interesting)
Wiki link to Farnsworth fusor (Score:5, Informative)
(yeah, yeah, I know...never trust anything on Wikipedia... but it's still a good reference starting point)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor [wikipedia.org]
No, it's a polywell (Score:3, Informative)
It's an polywell in fact: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywell [wikipedia.org]
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***yeah, yeah, I know...never trust anything on Wikipedia
Do people really still say this?***
Of course they do. We are not close to Peak Tinfoil which remains much in demand for headgear amongst certain segments of the population.
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While walking amongst my fellow techy geeks, this sort of talk is usually promptly squashed or a heated debate takes place and the smackdown cometh.
But out in the "real world" with people like the suits, the poor D&D guys, street people, and office drones, a lot of them still think the idea of publicly aggregated knowledge to be silly. Hell, a lot of street people barely know computers exist much less wikipedia.
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I stand corrected...thanks. If Slashdot would allow me to move my +5 Informative from my post to yours, I would.
Yes, but... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Yes, but... (Score:4, Funny)
or will it run Linux....
Re:Yes, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Of course it will run Linux. But you will have to modify fstab, short pin 22 to ground when booting, and recompile the kernel.
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Zingggg! I kid, I kid.
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But... (Score:3, Funny)
I am disappointed (Score:3, Funny)
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Didn't end well for the last person who did this. (Score:4, Interesting)
Uh oh, I've heard this before... Wikipedia article about David Hahn, the 'Radioactive Boy Scout' [wikipedia.org]
Re:Didn't end well for the last person who did thi (Score:5, Informative)
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Fusion consists of putting some gas in a box, turning it on, putting a whole lot of power in and ending up with a different gas in the box.
... plus a bunch of neutrons that really, really want out of the box.
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He tried to build a fission reactor. This is a fusion reactor.
Re:Didn't end well for the last person who did thi (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, Hahn didn't do this - He created a fission reactor. (Which, IMO, makes him deserve far more credit because fission is dangerous and far harder to get the materials for.)
Basic fusion is easy with the Farnsworth Fusor design. The problem is that it's not a useful design for anything but low-yield neutron generation for experiments - it can't generate power due to operating nowhere close to breakeven and, if I recall correctly, with quite a bit of physics saying that such a design will never be able to achieve breakeven at any scale.
Re:Didn't end well for the last person who did thi (Score:4, Insightful)
> Actually, Hahn didn't do this - He created a fission reactor.
No he didn't. A pile of radioactive scrap is not a reactor.
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Because physics has never been wrong about anything, ever.
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Generally, physics hasn't been so far off that something that was thought not to work actually could be made to work.
Nuclear fusion and fission are pretty well understood by physics at this point, and if all the experts say that this design from the era when television was just invented won't be able to break even, then I believe they're correct. Instead of constantly trying to prove the physicists wrong with the same old design, maybe it's time to come up with a design that DOES work, and generates more p
look at the man's face (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.google.com/images?q=david+hahn [google.com]
what that is is kaposi's sarcoma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaposi's_sarcoma [wikipedia.org]
if you need a hobby, radioactive materials is not your best choice
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However, you'll notice that the second article you cite says that Kaposi's Sarcoma is a cancerous tumor due to a virus called Human herpesvirus 8 (HHV8) [wikipedia.org]. Most famously, it's associated with HIV/AIDS, but not exclusively.
So, no radiation there.
I'm not sure that anything in the wiki link supports the notion that radiation is the cause of that rather disturbing picture. There's more there to infer that he's HIV+ (or at least has an infection which also opportunis
hiv destroys the immune system (Score:2)
radiation destroys the immune system
99% of us carry herpes around, constantly held in check by our immune system
so when our immune system is destroyed, whether by HIV or radiation, out comes our wonderful viral friends, to lay waste to our bodies completely unimpeded
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Yeah, I think I figured that part out. Initially I was thinking you meant radiation directly led to KS.
And, yes, don't mangle your immune system is the lesson here boys and girls. :-P
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This get's picked up every couple of years... (Score:2, Interesting)
The site you want to visit is www.fusor.net. He got the idea from this site. Spending $35K on this is really high. Most guys make there fusor for around couple $2k-$5K.Some do it for a couple of hundred dollars. It's all in how you scrounge for parts. I wish him luck, but he needs better scrounging skills.
Re:This get's picked up every couple of years... (Score:5, Interesting)
Its all the high vac stuff that gets expensive and time consuming, its a real pain in the ass. Good backing pumps and high vac pumps (like Diffusion or Turbomoleculer pumps) are tough to come by for cheap unless you are willing to rebuild them. I bought three smaller diffusion pumps off eBay for another experiment and let me tell you its not an easy task finding parts for a $20 nondescript pump you bought off ebay. Then your need vacuum valves to control the pump down process. First you need to rough the chamber and wait for the pressure to drop to about 4E-2 Torr and then keep it there to remove as much vapor as you possibly can. then close the roughing valve and then open the forline valve to pull the back of your high vac pump down and then open the main valve which exposes the high vac pump to the chamber. Those vacuum parts alone can cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Also given the fact that high vacuum fittings like Kf or CF elbows, flex pipes, tees etc can cost $50-$100 each! I applaud him for throwing that much money at the problem, he looks like he built a nice fusor with the right parts the first time so he isn't spending hours trying to figure out why he cant pull a vacuum below the -3's (Torr).
Its fun trying to iron out vacuum leaks! Especially without a $20,000+ helium leak detector. But a little vacuum grease on the KF O rings and making sure you tightened your CF flanges properly should help eliminate your problems.
I was trying to build a small electron beam welder for fun. I work on them for a living now so it looked like a nice little project but its not easy or cheap. As of now its a half assembled pile of parts because I cant afford to keep throwing money at it. The 3HP Stokes Microvane (55CFM) alone cost me 550 bucks. And that was a lucky find, don tthink the seller knew what he had. And it needs a rebuild because it cant pull lower than 7E-1 Torr. I also need good vacuum gauges (dial gauges arent much help below a few Torr, and the old Hastings I got from work are not that reliable), Hastings makes real nice ones, have them at work but they cost about a grand for the low-med vac gauges (1E-4 Torr) and I believe 1500+ for the one that goes all the way to ultra high vac (good to 1E-10 Torr).
Anyone who puts this kind of time, money and effort in to their hobby is a real dedicated person. My hats off to you Mr. Suppes.
he works for gucci? (Score:5, Funny)
i know everyone is freaked out about the military thoecracy of iran and the cult of personality of north korea with nukes, and that nuclear technology will inevitably trickle down to smaller and smaller states: suriname, east timor, vanuatu... and then factional organizations: al qaeda, FARC, doctors without borders, make a wish foundation, girl scouts...
but when fashion designers have their hands on nuclear technology, i think we can pretty much declare the effort to contain nuclear technology over, and just start writing the epitaph for civilization. we're doomed
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The idea of fashion designers pretty much means we're doomed.
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An oldie but goodie from Tom Lehrer:
First we got the bomb, and that was good,
'Cause we love peace and motherhood.
Then Russia got the bomb, but that's okay,
'Cause the balance of power's maintained that way.
Who's next?
France got the bomb, but don't you grieve,
'Cause they're on our side (I believe).
China got the bomb, but have no fears,
They can't wipe us out for at least five years.
Who's next?
Then Indonesia claimed that they
Were gonna get one any day.
South Africa wants two, that's right:
One for the black and o
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Oh come on, how else is Edna Mode [wikipedia.org] going to make all of those cool suits for The Incredibles [imdb.com]?
No Capes!!
Reactions (Score:5, Informative)
Cool, but pretty easy to do (Score:2, Interesting)
Lots of people have made fusors, even high school students for science fairs.
The article is really light on details, his setup looks far more complex than a basic fusor would need to be and I assume that's where he spent all the money. Getting good deals on things like used vacuum pumps you could probably do this for a couple of thousand. It's a neat hobby but fusors are far too inefficient to be used as anything other than a cheap neutron source, and even then only if you really up the voltage. Most make f
um, ok (Score:5, Insightful)
As a (non-amateur) physicist and former fusion researcher, I recommend putting in a deposit at a sperm bank for any man intending to do this.
Contrary to popular belief, fusion does cause significant radiation.
That said, this is pretty cool. It's too bad people like this don't go all the way and do physics professionally. Perhaps if advanced physics research paid as well as working for Gucci...
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Probably, but that would require spending a lot of money to build a research station there and transport people and supplies there. Plus, we don't know much about the long-term effects of 1/6g on the human body. We know that 0g causes lots of problems over time, but we don't know about low gravity.
With the way our nations don't want to spend any money on scientific research, but are happy to spend tons of money on military deployments and social welfare for people who don't want to work, I think you can f
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Meh, I'm having a vasectomy tomorrow so this has all of the cool and none of the drawbacks.
One of my friends owns a metal shop so I can get some nice looking parts made...
Stay tuned, folks. I'll either end up on /. or in This is True.
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I'm having a vasectomy tomorrow ... One of my friends owns a metal shop so I can get some nice looking parts made
Okay, that is a really disturbing juxtaposition of images.
put it in a car that can go 88MPH! (Score:2)
put it in a car that can go 88MPH!
Spiderman (Score:2)
Fusion is Easy... (Score:5, Insightful)
Fusion is relatively easy to achieve on a small scale. What's extremely hard to achieve, judged on the efforts of various organizations over the past 60 years, is fusion that produces more power than it consumes.
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You just need a few quadrillion tonnes of hydrogen.
Ok, if you want something a little smaller, then let's look at the problem. Ignition can now be done. Lots of ways to ignite fusion. A sustained reaction is harder. However, as a general rule, in other domains when instabilities have appeared to be a problem, it is the instabilities that proved to be the solution. Instead of working to eliminate them, perhaps they could be used as a pump mechanism to draw in new fuel and expel the helium produced.
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Fusion is relatively easy to achieve on a small scale. What's extremely hard to achieve, judged on the efforts of various organizations over the past 60 years, is fusion that produces more power than it consumes.
Not easy maybe, but certainly been done numerous times before [wikipedia.org]...
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On the other hand, it is IMO pretty rare for anyone to actually try to do a device that might do breakeven as constructed.
Back in the 70's, getting break even was known to be pretty straight forward. Some simple linear pinch device, but say two clicks long. This might actually go back to the 50's.
Nuclear Reactors Aren't Dangerous... (Score:4, Funny)
Mr. Wizard -- Today Timmy, we're going to take an old spatula, an inner tube and some macaroni noodles to make a nuclear reactor.
Timmy – Gee, Mr. Wizard! Aren't nuclear reactors dangerous?
Mr. Wizard -- No, Timmy! But old spatulas are! They can poke your little eyes out!
Cost efectiveness (Score:2)
Many more than 38 fusion hobby reactors exist (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Simply a Fusor (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Simply a Fusor (Score:4, Funny)
Don't you mean Apple? The government needs to break them up for all their anti-competative behavior. You can't expect the invisible hand of the market to do anything with a company that makes such cool products.
Re:Simply a Fusor (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Simply a Fusor (Score:5, Interesting)
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Personally, I don't even see the point of making one, when it costs so much. They've been around since Farnsworth invented them, and they don't really do anything useful unless you need a neutron source. How many hobbyists need a neutron source?
There's a lot better ways to spend your hobbyist time and money. Build a CNC machine instead, for instance. You can then use that to build other interesting things.
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After sinking your teeth into a fusor, perhaps you can try to tackle a Polywell [wikipedia.org] fusion device as the next step. While a few dozen or more people have built fusors, the number who have gone after the Polywell devices is certainly quite a bit less.
Of course the tough part of the Polywell devices is the theoretical work that Robert Bussard did to come up with the idea and the raw research being done right now to get the concept working. Supposedly the eighth version of this reactor design has been built and
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Damn it! Now I have his voice stuck in my head. My inner monolog is going to sound really weird today.
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He's not making a bomb, he's making a fusion device. A very lower power, low-yield fusion device.
It can create some neutron radiation, but the device is so low power that the radiation is rather negligible.
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Im sorry how does one get away building a freaking unsafe amateur nuclear device IN NYC, I know he is an expert and all (you kinda have to be to develop a static web catalog) but Jesus
last time I went up there, I couldn't carry a travel size tube of toothpaste and this dink is making a bomb in his basement
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the basic reaction of 99% of the population* when they read this story.
:(
*people who know precisely dick about physics
This guy will be lucky if his neighbors don't lynch him.
Re:And how is he not in jail? (Score:5, Funny)
***This guy will be lucky if his neighbors don't lynch him***
People who live in NYC don't generally care enough about their neighbors to lynch them. Now Texas or Oklahoma, There any half way decent rabble rouser can get a lynch mob together with just a megaphone and few cases of beer.
Re:And how is he not in jail? (Score:4, Funny)
So, pretty much any NASCAR race, rodeo, or BBQ then? :-P
I kid, I kid. (Especially since people from Texas and Oklahoma are known to carry guns. ;-)
Re:Uh Typo (Score:5, Informative)
No, Fission involves the process of heavy (unstable, usually something like Uranium) element decaying into a lighter element and some radiation, where the radiation is used to generate electricity.
This is a proper fusion reactor, as it uses electricity to join (light, usually some form of hydrogen, be it H2 or H3) atoms together, releasing neutrons in the process from which you can generate electricity.
Problem with fusion reactors is that the input (electricity used to join the atoms) is usually bigger then the output, so it's not viable yet as a power source, but when it is figured out, you have a clean power source that uses light elements to produce slightly heavier elements with no radioactive by-products.
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Yeah! well you just wait until we hit peak light elements~
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But what happens to the neutrons? Wouldnt that be something similar than beta-rays?
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That being said, being in a high neutron flux for any length of time can be harmful to a human.
Of course this is handled with shielding. And I believe in any serious fusion reactor breeder blankets (not sure which material) are put in place, which absorb neutrons to generate lithium. Lithium is required for the D-T reaction.
Since I'm no expert in fusion I'm sure someone else can give a more p
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Neutrons are best blocked with materials containing light elements like hydrogen. Sometimes a combination of lead bricks and polyethylene bricks is used around a target in a fission based neutron source. The lead bricks block gamma rays, and the neutrons scatter off the hydrogen in polyethylene, slowing them down until they can be absorbed. In Alcator C-Mod tokamak, a concrete neutron shield is used.
Lithium is mined, not generated. It is used in the breeder blanket to produce tritium by the reaction n + 6Li
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Beta particles are high energy electrons, not neutrons. And so long as you don't swallow a beta emitter, you're not going to get hurt from beta particles.
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Wait, you mean human skin is powerful enough to block beta particles? Can we block electricity too?
Cool!
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Which is why it isn't a Fusor he's building.
It looks like one but a Magnetic Grid fusion device replaces the electric grid of the Fusor with a self-shielding magnetic grid. The idea is to create a "virtual Fusor" with the magnetic fields inside, thus eliminating grid losses.
A full-scale prototype has yet to be built, but I have seen an estimate that a magnetic grid of under 2m diameter is necessary for break-even which is going to be orders of magnitude cheaper to build and test than even the cheapest Tokom
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The walls are damaged by the neutron emission, but not all radiation damage results in the material becoming radioactive. The induced radioactivity in the walls of the reactor is much less significant than it simply becoming brittle. That's the reason why it needs to be replaced.
Torus? (Score:2)
When I first read your comment I thought you said torso and wondered how one replaced the walls of ones torso... mine don't look replaceable.
there are radioactive byproducts in fusion (Score:2)
however, they are lot better behaved than the radioactive byproducts in fission
hhere is such a thing as nuclear waste with the idea of fusion power. however we are talking about things with half lives and types of radioactivity that makes handling the waste not a permanent nightmare, more like a manageable sustained effort
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Heat produces thermal radiation, so as radiation I meant both heat and gamma particles, but your explanation is more clear.
Re:what could possibly go wrong ? :) (Score:5, Insightful)
And what, exactly, makes you think it's dangerous? If you're going to call it dangerous, you should be able to lay out a plausible failure scenario that shows the risk; do you know enough about the devices these guys are building to do that, or are you just afraid of anything that uses the word "nuclear"?
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And what, exactly, makes you think it's dangerous?
Maybe the neutrons that get generated by the reactor and get absorbed by the reactor housing, eventually making it radioactive enough that proper disposal is necessary, together with the fact that this project is probably not being monitored closely enough to make sure that proper disposal happens.
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Maybe the neutrons that get generated by the reactor and get absorbed by the reactor housing, eventually making it radioactive enough that proper disposal is necessary
I could be wrong about this, but I think the fast neutrons generated by Farnsworth-type devices will go right through anything this guy is likely to have in his apartment. They won't hang around long enough to create significant amounts of heavy (i.e. radioactive) isotopes, and the flux won't be intense enough to do any damage while the machine is turned on. Again, this is just something I think I remember from reading up on the matter years ago, so take that FWIW.
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There are a lot of things I'd worry about. The biggest, if he did make it work (the article didn't say it worked, just that he was trying, which makes it non-news), would be the risk of fire. Ok, so you built a nuclear reactor in your apartment. Did you use sufficient gauge wiring when hooking up everything in your apartment, or are there small gauge extension cords run all over the place? :)
There are plenty of other things to worry about, but they'd be completely project unrelated
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This is not a direct quote of the anonymous scientists, this is just crappy writing from the journalist. In other words, it's not the scientists who can't get it right, it's the idiot writing about it.
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...or is a 'nuclear reactor' quiet different from a 'fusion reactor'?
Fission and fusion reactors are both operating on the nuclear level, so I don't really see a conflict here.
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no they meant fussion.
Fission is surprisingly easy- just put a large quantity of Uranium-235 in a small space and bathe in the warming glow.
Then die.
The hard bit is getting the U235.
Fusion requires more equipment but less hard to obtain isotopes.