Treasure Hunter Wants To Find Bin Laden's Body With ROV 257
Kittenman writes "Slate is carrying some details of how eccentric treasure hunter Bill Warren is proposing looking for the body of Osama Bin Laden in the Arabian sea. He plans on using sonar, and a remotely operated submersible. If he finds the remains, he'll photograph them to confirm Bin Laden's death to the world. Warren says, 'There is still a $25 million reward that no one has collected, and the reward says dead or alive, well, if -- in fact -- he is dead, then I could collect the $25 million reward. Why not?'"
Well, it only took them 75 years to find Titanic (Score:5, Insightful)
Good luck finding a target slightly smaller, that the fish have been chewing on.
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Assuming that he's successful in locating the body and is successful in verifying that it's the right body and manages to get the US government to pay up anyways, the likelihood is that this would still be a losing venture as he could very easily blow through $25m searching. Ships for that sort of operation are not cheap, and neither are the rest of the resources needed. And if the body isn't located quickly, chances are that it will just blend in to the bottom as flora start to grow over it.
At this point,
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it will just blend in to the bottom as flora start to grow over it
Flora? In the bottom of the ocean? I think not. [wikipedia.org]
Re:Well, it only took them 75 years to find Titani (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, it only took them 75 years to find the Titanic.
No, the majority of the time was waiting for the technology to catch up so they could verify where it sank. They always knew the general location of where it was from the last coordinates sent from the Titanic as well as the rescue ships documenting where they picked up the passengers. The 75 year wait was waiting for correct technology to be developed so they could send something down 2 miles to say, "yep there it is".
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Alright - what technology is needed to find a decomposing body in water? Note, that burials at sea do NOT involve sealed caskets. Normal clothing, or a uniform if appropriate. A shroud - basically a sheet sewed up into a sleeping bag. Some rocks in the bottom of the shroud, at the feet of the corpse. Dump overboard, and the body is water soaked immediately. In THEORY, the shrouded body goes directly to the bottom. Whether it does or not, a sheet won't last very long in salt water, with various animal
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Good luck finding a target slightly smaller, that the fish have been chewing on.
HA! The fish can't get to him on land. A recent taxi driver I talked with assures me that he is still alive and well and playing CoD to keep his skilz up-to-date. He just wasn't sure where.
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They put him in the secret freezer next to Walt Disney and the real Mikhail Gorbachev.
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I prefer his head futurama-style in a cabinet.
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Or in a cabinet meeting.
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"Gee,
I searched the whole ocean, down to the square centimetre.
But? Nothing!
Do you think they cooked the whole story up?"
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Nah; the reason they've been so secretive and even refuse to release photos is that just as the Navy SEALs broke into his bedroom, he was taken away by a host of angels who were singing in Arabic. His body isn't in the ocean; it's in heaven, being taken care of by his 72 virgins.
(Hey, it's as credible as those other similar stories from other religions.)
(And I'm sorta glad that I don't have to worry about a Disney lawsuit for posting the above.)
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"Don't you know old chap that I was head of Al Qaeda for 10 years. Five year! No, no, I was not head of Al Qaeda at all...I make joke."
Just gonna take a picture? (Score:5, Funny)
Recover that body! Think about it... Weekend at Osama's!
He's got a point, though futile (Score:2)
'There is still a $25 million reward that no one has collected, and the reward says dead or alive, well, if -- in fact -- he is dead, then I could collect the $25 million reward. Why not?'
He's got a point there. But the sea is pretty big. Finding a single body there is much like catching one very specific fish. Not to mention that I'm sure there are lots of critters down there that love to eat dead bodies.
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Sure, if you ignore the fact that the reward is no loger on offer.
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Wow (Score:3)
And you thought someone keeping $500,000 in bitcoins on their windows machine was an idiot...
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This guy isn't an idiot. He is someone with an expensive hobby who has found a way to get someone else to pay for it. Regardless what you think of the project, that's pretty shrewd.
Too late to be useful (Score:2)
IIRC, don't bodies buried at sea decay very quickly? At this point he may be able to find the shroud and weights, but the body itself must be past the point of recognizability by now, if there's anything left of it at all.
Air France flight (Score:4, Informative)
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Yes, they found 70 bodies, but they first found the plane, then noticed that there were still bodies in it. On top of that, we don't know that bin Laden's body is as deep in the ocean as that plane was, and at any rate locating the bag is going to be nigh impossible.
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The northern Arabian Sea, where the US Navy said it dumped bin Laden, can be up to 3,300 meters deep
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Eh, recovered not yet identified (Score:2)
They recovered the bodies, identification will be a slow process. Even the bodies found at the time of the disaster took two months to identify.
And identification won't be done by lifting the sheet and having a grieving relative say "yes that is him" unless the french police is very nasty indeed.
It will be done through DNA and records of things like healed bone fractures, dental work, surgery after effects etc.
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Needs more sunglasses!
Re:Too late to be useful (Score:5, Funny)
I think this guy might find himself...
*sunglasses*
...in over his head
YEEEAAAAH!
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I'm just saying that he won't ever be able to prove that the body he found was bin Laden's, and thus will never be able to collect the reward. He won't be able to pacify the deathers either.
Note that I am not a conspiracy theorist. I believe that bin Laden was in fact killed and buried at sea, either just as the US government claims or close enough to it as makes no real difference. But lots of people get buried at sea, and bin Laden cannot possibly be the only person to have been buried at around that time
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IIRC, shrouds intended for burial at sea aren't watertight. The material is made to be durable in undersea conditions so that the body won't escape, but holes are cut into the fabric to let water in and escaping gases out. This speeds up decomposition and reduces the bag's buoyancy.
Why not? (Score:5, Insightful)
'There is still a $25 million reward that no one has collected, and the reward says dead or alive, well, if -- in fact -- he is dead, then I could collect the $25 million reward. Why not?'
"Why not?" is that the reward is given at the discretion of the US government, and they're not going to give it to you.
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If you offered a reward for someone to find your wallet. And then you found your wallet. Would you pay the reward to someone who later picked it out of your trash?
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If that's only half trolling, what's the other half? Doubletrolling, for a total composition of 150% trolling? :P
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Can he find Jimmy Hoffa? (Score:2)
Kind of reminds me of this guy (Score:4, Informative)
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sigh.
There where no POW in Vietnam in the 80s, and the "inside delta force" book is full of shit.
Both Gritz and Haney are opportunists.
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There where no POW in Vietnam in the 80s,
Technically, you are right. They were being held in Laos.
not this again (Score:2)
If ever in my life I rooted for the Somali Pirates to take a ship, it'd be this guy's. I'm not saying that stupidity should be a capital offense, but if it becomes one via external influences, I'll LMAO.
Was he in a hard coffin, or just wrapped? (Score:2)
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For military burials at sea, there is never a coffin
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From what I heard, he was wrapped in a shroud tied to weights (to keep the body from floating). Given currents and organisms determined to get a meal from a sinking corpse, I doubt that shroud protected the body for long. As someone else said, you might be able to find the shroud and weights but the body'll be beyond recognizable by now.
Of course, even if we somehow assume that every creature found Bin Laden's corpse so detestable that they left it alone, you're talking about a sea with a surface area of
It's come full circle... (Score:2, Interesting)
We've had the birthers.
And now we have the deathers.
I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist, but there has to be a pathology in the DSM IV for this.
--
BMO
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That's exactly right. How many people still believe there were WMD in Iraq? Anyone? Anyone?
So why were people so quick to make fun of those who didn't believe the government's claim that Osama was killed? The claim may or may not have been correct, but with the track record the USG has with the truth, there's no way to know. You can't believe anything they say without overwhelming evidence.
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I think it's called "the government lies to us all the time, so now we don't know what's true and what's not". I'll call up the APA and see if we can get it into the next revision.
In the DSM-5 (the new one), the closest I get is Unspecified Psychotic Disorder [dsm5.org] (B18). The criteria are open, which means no one has a clue how to define it. Send in your ideas today!
Barbarism (Score:2)
It's one thing when our reporters or paparazzi run and get a picture of a cooling corpse. The U.S. Government (usually) stays out of the buisness of putting heads on pikes so everyone can see the body. I get really creeped out every time someone suggests this. Ignoring the anger it would stoke, the loss of the moral high-ground we require to win the long war, we're talking about putting a dead dude on display so folks can exhault in the hole
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Modest proposal (Score:2)
Or, wow, how about the US military takes his photos next to something that could only be recent, to prove that he was dead and when he died *before* dumping him in the ocean. DUH.
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Or, wow, how about the US military takes his photos next to something that could only be recent, to prove that he was dead and when he died *before* dumping him in the ocean. DUH.
Short answer: those photos would simply be claimed to be Photoshopped.
Longer answer:
The problem is there is no such thing as sufficient proof for someone who refuses to accept any evidence that contradicts their belief. No matter what the government does, it will be accused by a small number of people of lying and fabricating evidence.
Within the US government and the military specifically you don't need to satisfy the impossible demand for proof that characterizes conspiracy theorists. If a team of highly
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First and foremost: I don't believe there's any conspiracy here. I believe OBL is dead at the bottom of the ocean.
That said, your point about highly decorated SEALs only stands up if no superior tells them to lie. Veteran fighters I know would have no problem lying about an event because a superior told them it was the right thing to do.
Unfortunately, that leaves the "you can't ever prove it" issue for conspiracy nuts, I know, but I'm not gullible enough to believe every good soldier is also morally respo
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You're certainly correct in that they're capable. 'No, I don't know where we slid the bastard off the deck' is a core value they are trained to uphold. But that value conflicts with 'no, I haven't participated in a government conspiracy in which we pretended to kill a terrorist so the president could net a few points in the polls'.
There's a world of difference between the two and in the balance lies a smart soldier's morale.
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Feeding the fish?
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So do you still believe Saddam had WMD? After all, a bunch of CIA agents who devoted their lives to serving the nation say it's true.
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Precisely. Of course there are crazy people who will accept no possible combination of evidence. And then there are many more reasonable people who would like to see some evidence. Beyond just the say-so of a group of government employees, highly decorated SEALs or otherwise. "Why aren't there any photos" is a perfectly reasonable question.
An Effort in Vain (Score:2)
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treasure hunter are always looking for investors. This is probably a stunt to attract investors.
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Hell, by now, the fish that ate have already themselves been eaten.
ROV? (Score:2)
I wouldn't have expected Clear Channel [rovrocks.com] to go along with it.
Use the long range sensors... (Score:2)
...for scanning human life signs.
Well, that is, if you have 24th century technology :-).
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Somehow I doubt that corpses have much in the way of life signs.
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Of course, neither you nor c6gunner seem to have any problem with the '24th Century technology' part.
You're right. Long range sensors would be absolutely silly. You'd be using short range sensors. Long range sensors are for detecting planets around neighbouring stars, spacecraft that are too far away to get a phaser lock; that sort of thing.
Interview of Bill Warren being owned (Score:5, Informative)
No (Score:2)
You won't get the money. The reward is for turning him in, and that was already done, this is just the disposal.
You can't go to some graveyard, dig up a guy who was wanted dead or alive and collect the reward if he had already been turned in once.
This will be a huge mess. Quite frankly, I understand why they killed him and buried him as sea. I don't know if I agree with it.
BUT, finding him will turn into a nightmare. Al quida will want to use the image as a martyr, People will wan to bury him else where and
Sorry Charly! (Score:2)
Ain't no body to find, the whole thing in a charade to make Obama look good, just go through the whole thing, logically, scientifically!
And I imagine the reason GWB didn't show up for the little by-by Bin Ladin show at ground 0 was that he was pissed at Obama for taking credit for somthing that happened on his watch.
Re:Sorry Charly! (Score:4, Insightful)
Logic tells us that there's no way that the U.S. government would announce bin Laden's death without being 100% sure that he was dead, because it would be too easy for bin Laden to release a video reading the headlines from today's newspaper.
Maybe they know he died a year ago from kidney failure and the U.S. government wants to take credit, but you can bet that bin Laden is dead right now.
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the reward (Score:3)
Should be given as college scholarships for the kids of Seal Team 6 as well as a nice cunk of tax free cash to each of the members. IT's the right thing to do.
Good luck with that (Score:2)
All he'll find is shark poop.
other US mavericks sought Bin Laden (Score:2)
Maybe they'll find Jimmy Hoffa, Santa Clause... (Score:2)
...elves, the loch ness monster, the holy grail too, Zeus, the starship "Enterprise" and my youthful enthusiasm too.
Get ready for a major plot twist (Score:2)
The shroud will be filled with the body of...ELVIS!
I Think I Know What Osama's Wives Were Screaming! (Score:2)
Compeltely unnecessary (Score:3)
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Did anyone check his office in Langley?
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Seriously, how do you choose which hare-brained conspiracy theory you want to believe in? Since there is absolutely no evidence that he was killed years ago, is in a Guantanamo cell or is back at his office at he CIA, then how can you say that one theory is wrong and another right.
And why is any of those bizarre ideas more plausible than the official line. The idea that he died years ago requires both the co-operation of Al-Qaeda and President Bush to agree to defer the glory to his successor. Yeah, right.
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If he died years ago, they wouldn't have 'staged' his death in Pakistan.
Pakistan and US relation are really important for strategic reasons.
A cane in Afghanistan would make much more sense. It's what people expected, it's easier to do, and it could have been used for even greater political gain.
Of course, the whole idea makes no real sense.
1) The previous administration would have staged as an aid for the political campaign.
2) The shear number of people involved in keeping it quite.
3) The fact that if the p
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And you base this thinking on what evidence? Or is running off at the mouth over your latest "insights" part of your therapy?
U.S. Government Already Said NO BOUNTY FOR YOU (Score:2)
http://www.nodeju.com/9119/osama-bounty-not-paid-out.html [nodeju.com]
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Re:U.S. Government Already Said NO BOUNTY FOR YOU (Score:5, Insightful)
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I have to wonder, did this loon consider the consequences if he does disturb OBL's "grave"? I'm pretty sure there's a lot of muslims who wouldn't like kindly on that, avoidance of such being of the reasons the US claimed to have buried him that way in the first place. He'll wind up with a Fatwa on his ass so fast it'll make his head spin.
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Yes, living in a pineapple no less!
Pfft, common misconception. We all know now that Spongebob lives in the rainforest, under a tree.
http://www.livescience.com/14626-spongebob-mushroom-species-fungus.html [livescience.com]
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I thought the Muslims were already pissed that he was dumped at sea and not given a proper Islamic burial (which, to my knowledge, burial at sea is not eligible for).
He could probably make a killing handing the body over to some interested group of Muslims who'd want to rebury him with his head pointed towards Mecca.
Islam and burial at sea (Score:3, Informative)
Burial at sea is fine for Muslims [wikipedia.org]. In this particular context the important bit is most likely this bit: " if an enemy may dig up the grave to mutilate the body, it is also allowed to bury the deceased at sea to avoid mutilation." (And if you don't trust Wikipedia on the matter, go to their source: Rules About Burial of the Dead Body [al-islam.org].)
Given all the comments I've seen that he ought to have been buried in a box of pork chops, I think it's fair to say that this was a real concern.
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I thought the Muslims were already pissed that he was dumped at sea
You thought wrong. And you are confusing "thems Muslims" with Bin Laden's followers. Unless of course you genuinely think that all Muslims are Bin Laden's followers, in which case there is probably not much hope left for you.
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If it were me, I'd have fed him to a crazed school of sharks with their appetites whetted with a bit of blood in the water. It would have prevented nutjobs like this....oh, nevermind, what was I thinking. Given the tinfoil hat theories on this slashdot story, there's no stopping people like the treasure hunter thinking they'll strike it big providing evidence for their whacked out theory...or more likely, a well-placed documentary;
THE SEARCH FOR BIN LADEN
Follow along as our fearless group of
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