Two College Students Nearly Grabbed Donald Trump's Tax Returns Online (inquirer.com) 247
"This was a Wayne's World scene gone awry..." says an attorney for 23-year-old Andrew Harris. "They were Wayne and Garth in a blue Pacer with a dumb idea and a mixed run of luck," he told the Philadelphia Inquirer:
Harris previously had filed an application for federal student aid, and noticed that the government form would redirect to the IRS and import his own tax returns automatically. Harris and his fellow classmate Justin Hiemstra wondered: What would happen if they posed as one of Trump's offspring? Could they use an application for aid to land the returns and scoop the nation's biggest newspapers? Tiffany Trump had graduated in May 2016 from the University of Pennsylvania and had announced she was going to graduate school at Georgetown University. It could work.
Six days before the 2016 election, Harris and Hiemstra went to Haverford College's computer lab and logged in using another student's credentials. They accessed a Free Application for Student Aid (FAFSA). When they attempted to register under the name of Trump's child, they were stunned to discover an application under that name already existed. Using Google, they successfully guessed most of the answers to a series of challenge questions to reset the password. Stymied four times on one of the security questions, they gave up.
What they didn't realize was that the Department of Education was monitoring all traffic on the FAFSA site. The failed attempt sent up a red flag. The IRS dispatched federal investigators to Haverford shortly after.
Last month Pulitzer Prize-winning tax journalist David Cay Johnston told the paper "It's surprising they didn't catch them until four tries." They also reported that while Harris was expelled from the college, 22-year-old Hiemstra was allowed to graduate, and both men have pleaded guilty to accessing a computer without authorization and attempting to access a computer without authorization to obtain government information.
When sentenced in December, they'll face a maximum of two years in prison, two years of supervised release, and a $200,000 fine.
Six days before the 2016 election, Harris and Hiemstra went to Haverford College's computer lab and logged in using another student's credentials. They accessed a Free Application for Student Aid (FAFSA). When they attempted to register under the name of Trump's child, they were stunned to discover an application under that name already existed. Using Google, they successfully guessed most of the answers to a series of challenge questions to reset the password. Stymied four times on one of the security questions, they gave up.
What they didn't realize was that the Department of Education was monitoring all traffic on the FAFSA site. The failed attempt sent up a red flag. The IRS dispatched federal investigators to Haverford shortly after.
Last month Pulitzer Prize-winning tax journalist David Cay Johnston told the paper "It's surprising they didn't catch them until four tries." They also reported that while Harris was expelled from the college, 22-year-old Hiemstra was allowed to graduate, and both men have pleaded guilty to accessing a computer without authorization and attempting to access a computer without authorization to obtain government information.
When sentenced in December, they'll face a maximum of two years in prison, two years of supervised release, and a $200,000 fine.
Pulitzer Prize-winning moron (Score:5, Insightful)
Using Google, they successfully guessed most of the answers to a series of challenge questions to reset the password. Stymied four times on one of the security questions, they gave up.
Last month Pulitzer Prize-winning tax journalist David Cay Johnston told the paper "It's surprising they didn't catch them until four tries."
And why exactly is this genius so surprised by this? Is four failed password attempts an incomprehensibly large number?
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Re: Pulitzer Prize-winning moron (Score:2)
As in mega man?
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yeah, but he couldn't bear to type It, either :)
Re:Pulitzer Prize-winning moron (Score:5, Insightful)
When sentenced in December, they'll face a maximum of two years in prison, two years of supervised release, and a $200,000 fine.
A couple of random kids seriously embarassed the government over it's crap security, I'm surprised they didn't get the electric chair, or at least Guarantanamo.
Actually, it looks like the security worked just fine. They didn't succeed in getting the tax returns. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?
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Re:Pulitzer Prize-winning moron (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Pulitzer Prize-winning moron (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Pulitzer Prize-winning moron (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem with this... is 100 websites ask for your mothers maiden name and your pets name, One of those sites happens to be yahoo. Now these two pieces of information are no longer secret.
I happen to use a code pattern for 'secret answers' that are now so close to general knowledge that I'm sure so and so's favorite pet's name is now just a google search away.
Say you want secret and UNIQUE answers to questions for 100 websites. Each website gets a code, say slashdot gets the code 'horse'. And then your secret answer to pets name, would be pethorse. And then your secret answer for mothers maiden name would be momhorse. Or whatever. You could get as complex as you want. Skip the code word all together, use a password database and use `date | md5sum` so generate a random string of letters and numbers for the secret (this is probably the best way).
Make good backups of your password database and off you go. So now when yahoo leaks your data again in a massive hack, you only lose yahoo's credentials.
Re: Pulitzer Prize-winning moron (Score:3)
Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
They failed to get the tax returns, the challenge questions and four failed attempt security measures prevented them from gaining illegal access to someone else's tax returns.
If their target was a less well-known individual they likely couldn't have googled most of the answers.
This obsession with Trump's tax return is just as non-sensical as the obsession with Obama's birth certificate.
Re: Pulitzer Prize-winning moron (Score:3)
It sounds like a great plan to try again (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe more TDS kids should break the law for the lols and cred. Obviously, just don't try it four times and you'll be fine./s
What the fuck is wrong with people? So brainwashed by the media magic around Obama. Politicians were never taken so seriously until now. No one who is 'good' or capable enters politics.
All politicians are shit no matter what people, ideals, or other BS they claim to represent. They ONLY represent themselves and friends and people who pay to be friends. Trump is no worse, just different and just a useless. The government is not your friend or your mom, it is a lying lazy dirtbag employee that says you can't fire him.
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Then where is it? Three years of special investigations and millions of dollars wasted and you say they have evidence. So product it?
Why wait till he is out of office? Produce the evidence and put it on the table. It is the quickest way to ensure that he doesn't win in 2020. An it doesn't have to be the government that produces it. It could be the press. The New York Times, or CNN, or any of those news outlets could produced the evidence you say exists and end the Trump presidency.
So produce it
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Great job! Get it to the New York Times now, instead of some back alley web page that nobody cares about. I'll go watch CNN and see if it turns up there.
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Then why didn't he charge him? The reason he didn't is all this is not admissible in court. It's all third hand knowledge. Muller could have brought down a sitting president. That would have made him a legend, but he didn't. For years I have heard nothing about how just and honest Muller is but yet he didn't bring any charges against Trump.
The democrats despite all this still refuse to impeach Trump. Why isn't Waters out there screeching "impeach impeach" any more? Because she knows there isn't an
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You're exactly wrong, the last paragraphs of that CNN article explain it all - it's legally impossible to bring down a sitting president. The legal impossibility of charging Trump with anything regardless of how much evidence there is for it, and the political impossibility of impeachment with so many Trump loyalists in place is why nobody is doing anything right now other than trying to surface more evidence to help the people make an informed decision in 2020.
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Always an excuse isn't there? How about your side just accept the fact that you lost an election and stop whining about it. Here is the deal Trump hasn't broken any laws, and there is no evidence that he did. If there was its congress duty to remove him. But they don't.
Nothing is going to be done after he leaves office ether. If there was we would have Obama's head on a pike. He broke the law a number of times, pallets of cash in the night?
Enough with the excuses. If you don't have the evidence
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I worry about what you alternate-reality nutballs will do if someone slaps cuffs on Trump on his way out of the White House,
Since we have already established that, that wont' be happening we really don't have anything to worry about. What we need to be more concerned about is you loony left's losing your shit when Trump is sworn in for a second term in 2020.
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Oh wait. This is not evidence, this is hearsay. No, hearsay and evidence are not quite the same thing. See one is admissible in court, the other isn't. Something isn't evidence just because you say it is.
Again please produce the evidence and not what someone heard some one say through a unreliable source.
See this would be evidence. A signed check from Putan or a money trail from Russia to the White house. That would be evidence. Now you just saying Putain paid Trump, or any one saying that, is
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But it probably would sink him in 2020.
Put another way (Score:4, Funny)
Deranged news media coverage persuades otherwise ordinary college students to commit a Federal felony, tragically limiting their chances for lifetime success.
Turn it off before you or someone you know suffers a similar fate.
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I know, right? How many more lives will be ruined because people made the mistake of listening to the insane hatred and conspiracy nonsense pushed by the news media?
Turn it off before it infects you or your family.
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Because thinking it's a good thing to see the tax returns of anyone who is our president while also suggesting it's extremely strange that he hasn't done so given that everyone else does it and why wouldn't he is "insane hatred and conspiracy"?
No it isn't.
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Voters decided how much it mattered in 2016.
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Not overwhelmingly though
just think, if the Democrats had run a serious candidate instead of the "part of the system and problem Hillary" they would have won. Let's hope they're not so stupid in 2020. Hint, Biden would be example of Hillary's ilk, if he runs you'll be Trumped.
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not a Warren fan but banning fracking is not equivalent to "putting millions of americans out of work" since there are alternatives to hydraulic fracking that are already in use and working
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not a Warren fan but banning fracking is not equivalent to "putting millions of americans out of work" since there are alternatives to hydraulic fracking that are already in use and working
Voters will decide whether they want to buy into that sort of spin after seeing the campaign commercials.
—-
Fade in:
Elizabeth Warren on screen: [ban fracking on first day]
Narrator: Fracking employs [xxx] thousand people in Ohio. Good jobs paying almost twice the state average. A study by [random organization name] says most of those people will be out of work within a few months of a fracking ban.
[picture of sad multicultural people standing in unemployment lines]
[picture of children with downcast e
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Yes, but those alternatives are more expensive with higher CO2 output.
Basically the entirety of the DNC front-runner field are simply parroting GND talking points with no thought for actual implementation or what such things would entail.
And when questioned closely about it, they DIVERT! DIVERT! DIVERT! and non-sequitur their asses off.
It basically suggests that they aren't really going to deliver on said campaign promises.
Re: Put another way (Score:2)
Dude, I think you should take your own advice. Clearly you had enough "news".
Re: Put another way (Score:2)
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Yeah, by overwhelmingly voting for Hillary.
"Overwhelmingly"? Apparently not, as she lost.
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Yes. But this country is a convention of STATES.
Simply because New York, California and the most of the traditional "Blue Wall" states voted for Hillary isn't enough to win.
You have to have enough votes to move the states to distribute their EC votes.
Like pretty much every other election in this country.
The entirety of the US doesn't vote on your congressmen or your governors.
The same thing applies for your electors.
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The US isn't a Democracy.
There is no direct election for POTUS. And the voting for electors has been constantly mis-framed as this.
The STATES elect the President in accordance with the will of their people.
As such, you're voting for the electors in your state.
The same way you vote for your congresspeople and governor.
If you live in California, Texans have no say in who you elect to Congress. Nor about your governor. Or your electors.
Just like you have no say in theirs.
This is why politicians don't simply
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Oh man, this is juicy. I just called you an idiot in a prior post and then I see this.
"The US isn't a Democracy.
There is no direct election for POTUS. And the voting for electors has been constantly mis-framed as this."
Only if you use the word "Democracy" in the classic sense is that true. Your second statement though removes that as a possibility. What you described might have been remotely applicable on our nations founding. Tradition (which is very much part of the law), however, has established that ele
Re: Put another way (Score:4, Insightful)
I take comfort from the fact that the people living in 6 largest cities in the country don't matter more than all the other people in the entire country.
It's a big country. It's a federation of individual, diverse, states. That's by design. I like the design.
As so many people keep saying "our strength is our diversity".
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Yes, we are a country and judging by your comments you are are not a citizen of this country.
You're a country, and one of the few in the world where your leader
That comment seems to indicate that Going on that, you as a citizen of a foreign country have no say in our political process. So it would probably be best if you mind your own business and address what ever political issues you have in your home country.
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Doesn't matter what it is or what its source was or what you assume. The system works, and it actually works well. If the electoral college is remove it will be one sure way to make sure the United States descends into civil war. When large population centers start dictating the law across large expanses of people that now will have no representation, its only a matter of time before those people get tired of your crap.
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It's an obsessive fixation that has greatly harmed the lives of 2 otherwise ordinary college students.
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Oh please, birtherism was an obsessive fixation. Wanting to see Trump's tax returns is just prudent.
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Don't inject facts and reason here, they don't like it.
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Re: Put another way (Score:5, Insightful)
"Because everyone else does" is a logical fallacy. What are you trying to get out of it anyways? If he was guilty of anything tax related, the IRS would have found it by now. If you're looking for proof that he's bad at investing and/or running a business, you're way way way too late, everybody already knows that. If you're trying to embarrass him, he does that to himself every day anyways.
By going after this shit, all you're accomplishing is validating his claims about there being a witch hunt. You'll do a lot more damage to him by leaving that in the realm of being just another one of his looney conspiracy theories.
If the Democrats spent less time on Trump and more time on nominating a viable candidate, this would all be over in 15 months. Instead, they've shat out Elizabeth Warren, who I guarantee has way worse odds of beating Trump than Hillary.
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Hell. I remember an interview with Ivanka from a couple decades back.
She was talking about her father at one of his low points.
He pointed out a bum on the sidewalk to her and told her "That guy's worth more than me right now..."
Re: Put another way (Score:4, Insightful)
>If the Democrats spent less time on Trump and more time on nominating a viable candidate, this would all be over in 15 months. Instead, they've shat out Elizabeth Warren, who I guarantee has way worse odds of beating Trump than Hillary.
That's the reason they keep hitting on Trump. They have nothing positive AND synthetic. All they have is Biden and bunch of progressives who try to out progress each other by pushing progressivism to different directions...
That's the problem of populism. When society had real issues, it was easy to pinpoint a significant monolithic part of population that one can charm with their demagoguery and look like a candidate with a solid program.
Trump was very focused in 2016 and he outsmarted Clinton (let's put it this way: even Trump outsmarted Clinton). He used cutting edge technology (Cambridge Analytica) to target the most important audience in most important states. He used the desire of Russians to upset Democrats that were leaning on Russia too hard. He used the disgruntled old industry middle working class in these states, who were unhappy with very predictable post-industrial abandonment of blue collars by Democrats. Being himself a "stable genius" he managed, nevertheless, gather a team of talented individuals who worked for his victory.
What did Dems learn from 2016? It appears to be "nothing". It's the same choice: between mediocre establishment stooges like Obama and Clinton (let's face it: Obama was a novelty win) and bizarre progressive extremist like Sanders.
Bill Clinton was a charismatic centrist politician that capitalized very well on Reagan's win of Russia in Cold World War. Dems need Bill Clinton. All they have are stupid Biden and stupid Clinton and "I am very smart" extremist progressivists like Sanders and Warren.
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...What are you trying to get out of it anyways? If he was guilty of anything tax related, the IRS would have found it by now. ...
He might not have violated tax law... or maybe he has, but in a very clever way? It's not illegal to have shitty business dealings with shitty people. But citizens have a right to know if their president is a shitty person or not. (Which of course we already know)
As we know, there's also tremendous amounts of loopholes in the tax code to let just about anyone do anything assuming they hire expensive tax attorneys to cook it up. So it's THIS part of the tax return the American Public is interested in.
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Re: Put another way (Score:2)
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As long as you stay away from Faux News you are ok
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It tells assholes they're actually victims and thus don't need to change. Flattering tyrants and easing their consciences have always been a profitable proposition, just as long as you're willing to sell your soul.
Re:Put another way (Score:5, Insightful)
Nah, I’m cool. It's a nice sunny late summer day for people who don't watch TV news.
For people who watch TV news, it's always dire and apocalyptic — you're just one step ahead of the bogeyman.
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There is no other explanation.
He was secretly cloned and replaced by Russian scientists on his 16th birthday. His clone's activation phrase is the last 8 digits written on his schedule D. And if the returns come out, someone might inadvertently repeat the digits and he'll be forced by his conditioning to kiss Boris Johnson on the lips on international television. No one wants that.
That's another, much more interesting explanation.
Yet another explanation: news media jerks will complain about what they can't see or complain about what
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Re: Put another way (Score:3)
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So you want them, not to uncover dirty doings.
Because that's what the IRS would be doing already.
You just want them to point to and say "SEE HOW MUCH MONEY HE WASTES!?!?!?" and mischaracterize it by focusing on the amounts with no context whatsoever...
In other words, you just wanna be a prick about it.
Think about that for a sec.
Re:Put another way (Score:4)
You know what? You make a good point but we need to go one better. How about this. The financial records of everyone that hold office or runs for any office should be open to the public. Every penny should be open to public view.
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For private citizens I completely agree, but I'm discussing public officials. These are people who make decisions that can affect the lives of millions. The policies they enact can affect the future for generations. We the citizens should have a right to see who is financing them and where their financial interests lie.
We need to know how a representative can be worth millions when working a job that pays less than $200K a year. Where does all that extra money come from?
Bigger question (Score:5, Interesting)
Why was Tiffany Trump applying for financial aid?
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Why was Tiffany Trump applying for financial aid?
It's grifters all the way down.
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It's grifters all the way down.
It's actually fractal grafting. Each act of grifting is touched on by several other acts when you look closer. Zooming in, each one of those acts of grifting is touched on by several more. It truly is bottomless without so much as a turtle.
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You don't get rich by writing checks.
Re: Bigger question (Score:2)
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Why would you pay for your kids' college if the government will? The kid is an adult, even if she's materially supported by mommy and daddy, she has no financial income to speak of herself unless she has some kind of trust fund. So on paper, she has no income to support herself going to college and she is eligible for government funded tuition, like the 70+% of everybody else going to college in the US
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Why was Tiffany Trump applying for financial aid?
The republican version of equality is if a handout must be given then same handouts get given to everyone. It's equal reward, not equal footing based aid.
Re:Bigger question (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Bigger question (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone can get financial aid, government funds much of the tuition these days, even if your parents are super-rich because you're an adult, you most likely don't make as much money as your parents and thus you qualify for government tuition.
That is also why colleges have been getting so expensive, if the government funds it, the prices can rise because it just comes out of the tax payer's pockets. The fact that colleges have been getting more expensive has had no effect on students being able to get loans. Students complain about their debt but as tuition and students going to college have doubled in the last decade, the total outstanding debt has also doubled. What this means is that students haven't been paying more in debt because the tuition doubled (otherwise the total outstanding debt would have more than quadrupled), the debt balance per student has remained the same, the government picked up the slack.
Additionally, they wouldn't get Donald Trump's tax returns, they would get Tiffany Trump's tax returns. Big difference, either way, not worth going to jail for someone else's tax returns you legally have no right to see.
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It seems like these two had a serious case of TDS, not the first one gone to jail for letting it take over their brain.
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Why was Tiffany Trump applying for financial aid?
Guess how the Trump empire was founded? Don't know, well it is very simple. It was founded by Donald's father with gobs of cash subsidies from the government to build privately owned subsidized low income housing to house the baby boom generation in the rapidly expanding low income burrows of New York. The zeitgeist of the entire Trump empire thing is take what ever you can get however you can get it and you will remain rich. Trump's mother drove him around as a child and collected change from the laundries
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I believe it's required to go to college even if you don't need financial aid (it was when I went anyway in NY state)
Really? (Score:3, Interesting)
"They accessed a Free Application for Student Aid (FAFSA). When they attempted to register under the name of Trump's child, they were stunned to discover an application under that name already existed. "
What?? Tiffany Trump applied for Student Aid? The daughter of a "billionaire" applied for help with college loans? This seems like the bigger piece of the story that no one is paying attention to. Why exactly would she be applying for student aid when she can clearly afford the tuition?
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Because the republican version of a handout is equal aid, not equal footing. If a aid is available then even billionaires qualify, you know ... equality and all that...
Re: Really? (Score:2)
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"They accessed a Free Application for Student Aid (FAFSA). When they attempted to register under the name of Trump's child, they were stunned to discover an application under that name already existed. "
What?? Tiffany Trump applied for Student Aid? The daughter of a "billionaire" applied for help with college loans? This seems like the bigger piece of the story that no one is paying attention to. Why exactly would she be applying for student aid when she can clearly afford the tuition?
Isn't it just possible that there are other people in America besides the first family with the name Trump?
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Those other people probably wouldn't have 3/4 matching security questions with the first family.
Also it's possible that Trump hates her so much he refuses to give her any money.
Because it's required (Score:2)
She wasn't applying for student aid. She completed a FAFSA because the college requires a FAFSA. Duh.
And these two geniuses didn't nearly grab Trump's tax returns. Their plan had no chance of succeeding; at most they might've gotten Tiffany's.
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In other news, Jeff Bezos made $55k last year. Interesting how none of these millionaires/billionaires have any income, yet can afford mansions, planes etc.
I'm not saying Trump is on par with Bezos or Gates, but he's not a 99%-er either. The bank doesn't just give anyone loans, you don't just go banking with Deutsche Bank because you like their free checking account.
Re: Really? (Score:2)
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Okay, this here is proof that you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.
Re: Really? (Score:2)
Are sigs gone? (Score:2)
I've been away for a couple of weeks.
Is there a place where /. addresses recent changes?
Thanks.
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I'm logged in. I went to Account, User and my sig line was blank. I entered something and then looked at a few posts I made today and still no sig.
I don't see the AC spam, however, people are posting as AC.
The site doesn't seem to be as active as a couple of weeks ago.
Sup, /.?
Editor Should Have Nearly Posted This (Score:2)
Somewhat related.... another near miss. (Score:2)
You know, when driving (we like car analogies), I don't tell my wife about all the close calls (because there are so many and who cares).
taxreturners (Score:4, Insightful)
For the love of Pete, this is the equivalent of Obama's birth certificate.
Er, except due to that little Constitution thing, at least that was actually relevant ... ok, this is even stupider.
Priorities. (Score:3)
The greater the power, wealth and connections of the victim, the greater the chances of a crime being detected and the greater the punishment.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: Wonder if they'll think it was worth it... (Score:2)
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The troops roll in to track them down -- they Get 2 years in prison.
Attempt to commit fraud on a federal system and you'll receive law enforcement attention too.
But we knew you were an idiot because you think they got two years in prison. They haven't even been sentenced yet.