Tesla Owner: I Butt-Dialed a $4,280 Autopilot Upgrade -- And They Haven't Refunded Me (cnbc.com) 104
CNBC reports:
On September 24th, physician Dr. Ali Vaziri was unpleasantly surprised by a mobile alert from his bank, which said he had just purchased a $4,280 upgrade for his Tesla Model 3. The large transaction, he quickly surmised, was a "butt dial" or accidental purchase made through the Tesla app on his iPhone. "My phone was in my jeans," Vaziri told CNBC. "I took it out, put it on this charger that comes with your Tesla and that's it. A minute later? I got the text. I've never purchased anything through the Tesla app before...."
Moments after he received the mobile alert from his bank, Vaziri called his local Tesla store and service center. They couldn't help directly, but gave him the number for a customer service hotline. He called the number, and requested a refund. Instead of processing the doctor's refund request on the spot, the customer service rep told Vaziri to click on the refund button in his Tesla app to process his request. Vaziri informed them there was no such button in the Tesla app, just some text and a link to the refund policy. An e-mail he received from Tesla confirming the unauthorized purchase contained only vague information about a refund, and no buttons to click or links to a page where he could process a refund request either. The email, which Vaziri shared with CNBC, drove him to Tesla's support web site, which in turn told him to call his local service center.
To this date, Vaziri says, Tesla customer service has not provided him with a refund, nor has the call center provided him with so much as a confirmation number or e-mail to acknowledge his calls about the refund. Instead, he processed a stop payment request through his credit card company.
Moments after he received the mobile alert from his bank, Vaziri called his local Tesla store and service center. They couldn't help directly, but gave him the number for a customer service hotline. He called the number, and requested a refund. Instead of processing the doctor's refund request on the spot, the customer service rep told Vaziri to click on the refund button in his Tesla app to process his request. Vaziri informed them there was no such button in the Tesla app, just some text and a link to the refund policy. An e-mail he received from Tesla confirming the unauthorized purchase contained only vague information about a refund, and no buttons to click or links to a page where he could process a refund request either. The email, which Vaziri shared with CNBC, drove him to Tesla's support web site, which in turn told him to call his local service center.
To this date, Vaziri says, Tesla customer service has not provided him with a refund, nor has the call center provided him with so much as a confirmation number or e-mail to acknowledge his calls about the refund. Instead, he processed a stop payment request through his credit card company.
I dunno... (Score:2)
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I agree that it sounds fishy. It's harder than that to buy a 99 app on Apple's App Store.
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Slashdot stripped the cent sign. That should be $0.99.
Re: I dunno... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I dunno... (Score:5, Informative)
He might need to check with his family, because “butt dialing” an upgrade requires opening the app, navigating to the correct screen, clicking Pay, double-clicking the power button to confirm the purchase, and then verifying your identity with FaceID or TouchID or a passcode. Unless his face resembles the interior of his pocket and his butt has some amazing dexterity, I don’t see how such a thing could be possible.
Also worth saying since the summary neglected to mention it: the refund was already processed, as it should have been. Regardless of the reason, refunds like this should be easy to process.
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Am I the only one that had a 'WTF?!?' moment at this point? I am guessing this is the power button for the car inside the Tesla app? Why would you turn off your phone during a purchase?
Re:I dunno... (Score:4, Informative)
Nope, the iPhone power button. A double-tap of it is used during purchases specifically because it’s something you can’t do easily by accident. A single click will turn the phone off, but a rapid double-tap registers differently. Older phones with TouchID used a long press on the home button for the same purpose.
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He might need to check with his family, because “butt dialing” an upgrade requires opening the app, navigating to the correct screen, clicking Pay, double-clicking the power button to confirm the purchase, and then verifying your identity with FaceID or TouchID or a passcode.
Nope. All you need to do is press a button in the application. Tesla doesn't use Apple's payment system, because they are not selling digital goods.
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A screenshot in the article shows Apple Pay being used for this purchase, hence my statement. If that’s not the case or no longer the case, then sure, all bets are off.
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Never trust screenshots in articles, they are often stock photos.
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The screenshot is specifically labeled as being from a recent version of the app and is for this specific upgrade, so it’s safe to say it isn’t a stock photo.
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They most definitely are selling digital goods. Just not goods that are delivered via any Apple infrastructure.
Re: I dunno... (Score:5, Insightful)
So why isn't Apple enforcing the 30% for all in-app purchases made via the app, same as they do for everyone else?
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Perhaps they are doing that? ...
Most likely they are doing that
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Re: I dunno... (Score:2)
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Where it is feasible, I try not to keep my phone in my pocket at all. I usually set it
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He probably has no face id, passcode or finger id on his phone.
So that is completely plausible, but idiotic.
Upgrade the Tesla app (Score:2)
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Marginally even an accident (Score:2)
This is why I don't app.
Buy a laptop. Get rid of the apps.
Problem solved.
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Buy a laptop. Get rid of the apps.
Unfortunately, Windows 10 insists on calling programs or executables "Apps" anyway. Another excuse to boot into linux!
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If you press the right buttons during install it will just be called "booting."
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I'm not sure what Windows programs you use but the only ones on my installation of Windows that are called apps are the apps downloaded via the Microsoft Store. All other programs are just programs.
Re: Marginally even an accident (Score:2)
For most people, their main computing device is their phone.
I go months without turning on my laptop.
Typical for Tesla support (Score:1)
Yes, this sounds like an interaction with Tesla support for sure. Nobody knows what the heck is going on, requests to tap buttons in the app that don't exist, nobody you can reach can help and nobody who could help has a way to contact them. Feeling abandoned by the company because it's like talking to a wall. Yep.
This might get sorted eventually with some social media attention because it's not likely Tesla is doing this on purpose, or as part of a policy to keep this person's money. It's just sheer disorg
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This guy doesn't need a public outcry. This guy needs a lawyer.
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He doesn't need a lawyer, he told his credit card company not to pay the charge. He'll only need a lawyer if Tesla is stupid enough to sue him over this...in which case his initial public outcry will be very useful.
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No, that isn't how it works. They don't have to sue unless the credit card company sides with the customer. If the credit card company reviews it and finds that the customer did make the purchase, but wants a refund, then they'll deny the chargeback anyway.
If you only request reasonable chargebacks, you never even see this step, but "I accidentally did authorize the purchase using an app that I intentionally authorized to make purchases" is not going to get an automatic chargeback approval the way "I only t
News? (Score:1)
Human does something stupid. Company has no policy for said stupidity. Confusion results. Is this really News For Nerds?
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Company has a policy for such stupidity [tesla.com] and is too incompetent to carry it out. Company is worshipped by nerds.
So, yes.
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Company has a policy for such stupidity [tesla.com] and is too incompetent to carry it out. Company is worshipped by nerds.
So, yes.
Goes along with something I posted two days ago [slashdot.org]. Even after calling to get the payment reversed they shunted him around to various locales rather than just undoing the transaction.
Complete and total shitfest by companies nowadays. KISS is dead. Obfuscation and complexity rules.
He certainly has an agile butt (Score:3)
You mean to tell me a single button push ordered a nearly $5K upgrade? Or maybe this is some buyer's remorse kicking in because he screwed up. In any case we need more stories like this. Any time someone orders something by accident it deserves a complete slashdot story. Comcast did you wrong? Submit slashdot story. Amazon screwed up you order? Submit slashdot story. Get an unsolicited robocall? Submit slashdot story. It's the only way to keep us all well informed.
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Re: He certainly has an agile butt (Score:2)
Yeah but I think you would still have to confirm the subscribe button press. My phone wants a finger print scan (yes my phone is very old ha ha) or password to confirm a 99 cent purchase. This 4300 buck purchase does not? Either this owner is lying, has a magic butt, or part of this lies on the mobile OS.
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There are circuses that would pay good money for an agile butt. Software companies too - they pay good money for agile consulting butts.
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So he "accidentally" loaded an app, navigated to the upgrade, purchased it, undoubtedly had to confirm said upgrade purchase.
Seems like it's either:
1) he did it on purpose and wanted to undo it.
or
2) Tesla applied an upgrade to him by mistake and he had nothing to do with it.
Be curious to see if a Tesla customer with a Tesla ID or VIN number or whatever they use, that was one digit off of this guy's number got mishandled and applied or some other similar fat-finger process.
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Good thing Telsa lets you undo it within 48 hours [tesla.com]. Right?
Are upgrade purchases refundable?
Yes. For upgrades purchased from the Tesla app, you can request a refund from the Tesla app within 48 hours of purchase. All refund conditions are available in your Tesla app. If an upgrade was purchased in a Service Center, contact your local Service Center.
You cannot receive a refund for subscriptions including Premium Connectivity. Learn more about cancelling your Premi
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So he "accidentally" loaded an app, navigated to the upgrade, purchased it, undoubtedly had to confirm said upgrade purchase.
More like he was already using the app, presumably to check the status of his car while supercharging, and random interactions with his skin caused the phone to register a couple of taps in just the right places. It's unlucky, but not anywhere near impossible. I've had accidental single taps from my iPhone while in-pocket on a few occasions. Assuming that two taps could occur once in a while isn't really much of a stretch.
Re:He certainly has an agile butt (Score:5, Informative)
Had you bothered to read the article you'd see that the app had the purchase checked by default so one slip of the finger results in a purchase. It's a predatory UI and they changed its behavior immediately afterward. Total coincidence of course.
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You mean to tell me a single button push ordered a nearly $5K upgrade?
They call it a "frictionless user interface." Another reason I don't app.
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Wait? You can't buy things in apps on iPhone without providing biometrics?
That's fucked up.
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You have been moderated -1 pedantic (Score:2)
I find your post . . . pedantic.
Credit card info (Score:2, Insightful)
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You're incompetent [google.com], and have no business criticizing others' mistakes.
Did you look, or are you lazy too?
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So they never purchased purchased anything through the app but you somehow have it linked to your account already? That's your fault. Not seeing a Tesla app in Google's store anyway. Is it in the Apple store? Do they not need a password or have a grace period?
You need a credit card to be linked to the Tesla account in order to use the Tesla chargers. In fact, if you put a deposit down with a credit card when buying the car, that credit card is automatically linked to the Tesla account. That’s probably what happened, he forgot that he had a credit card linked to his account. Tesla has gamified their app with loot box icon.
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Nope. As this is a newer car, it doesn't qualify for free premium connectivity, so he was paying monthly for it. Hence the card linked to his account.
tesla app (Score:2)
I have the Tesla app on my android phone. Tesla no longer offers a web interface to my solar panels. I don't own a Tesla car or battery but before they did away with the web interface you could see your solar and battery status on that big LCD in TESLA'S car. ALSO many of their solar power systems interfere with amateur radio and shortwave listening.
First:
If Tesla can change software on the fly than they can shut down THEIR cars, THEIR solar inverters and THEIR batteries. You have no ownership. The
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apple pay
Do they have an setting to say max spend per order? So if you go over you need jump to some other menu to change it??
I think cable boxes have that so you can buy that $5.99 movie on ppv / vod with 1-2 or ok's But buying the $49.99 WWE event takes a few screens to buy.
Re:Credit card info (Score:5, Informative)
I take it back. You're incompetent and lazy. If you'd actually read the article, you would have read:
Vaziri had owned the electric sedan happily for less than a few months at the point of his accidental purchase. He linked a credit card to his Tesla account, he said, to pay a monthly fee for "premium connectivity" in the car.
The best part is that this situation runs directly counter to Tesla's published refund policy [tesla.com], so no, it's not his fault. He did exactly what the refund policy advises that he should do and everything after that is on Tesla.
Moments after he received the mobile alert from his bank, Vaziri called his local Tesla store and service center. They couldnâ(TM)t help directly, but gave him the number for a customer service hotline. He called the number, and requested a refund. Instead of processing the doctorâ(TM)s refund request on the spot, the customer service rep told Vaziri to click on the refund button in his Tesla app to process his request.
Vaziri informed them there was no such button in the Tesla app, just some text and a link to the refund policy.
An e-mail he received from Tesla confirming the unauthorized purchase contained only vague information about a refund, and no buttons to click or links to a page where he could process a refund request either. The email, which Vaziri shared with CNBC, drove him to Teslaâ(TM)s support web site, which in turn told him to call his local service center.
You didn't read any of this, did you? Admit it.
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Untrue. He said, and the article expressly indicates, that he bought the premium connectivity package.
Untrue. He called the service department the day of the charge. Any competent company and service department keeps records of such calls. The one thing that you don't see here is Tesla proc
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How would you afford a Tesla?
Re: At least he's a doctor (Score:2)
Maybe his gig is with the Medellin cartel?
He got a refund (Score:2)
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reversing the charge with your CC is a last resort when the company that charged your card is too incompetent or too crooked to refund your money voluntarily.
I suspect the former in this case, but it's still worth bringing to people's attention.
If you need an app for your car (Score:2)
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I don't think you NEED the app, but it's handy to see status information about your car.
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You don't need the app, but it makes owning and driving the car much more convenient.
Typical Tesla problems (Score:5, Interesting)
I bought a Tesla Model S last November. Tesla accidentally sent the car to Hawaii (!) when I'm in California. The first I know about this is when I get a phone call from Tesla in Honolulu asking for my local address to deliver the car. I refused that car although I had already paid the full price, and (of course) Tesla deducted my small deposit from my credit despite the fact it was their mistake that made me cancel the purchase.
On my replacement order, I decided to go with a long range model rather than the performance model, after lobbying by my wife. That saved $20,000 plus the California sales tax, that's a total of $21,800. As I'd already paid for the first car, I was told that they would send me a check for the difference, and they did - 5 months and numerous phone calls later.
The car itself failed to to run about three weeks after it arrived. I had it towed to a service center and two weeks later had it back. I was given some Uber vouchers for use while the car was being repaired, rather than the loaner car I had been told to expect. When the car was returned to me it was filthy, both inside and out, and with a scratch on the front fender. I didn't see the scratch until the car was cleaned, so Tesla refused to accept that they had caused it.
The Tesla service center is a nightmare. It is always full of cars, so much so that the parking for prospective customers at the adjoining Tesla sales office is always full. I wonder how many sales were lost because people couldn't park. The Tesla service personnel seem to be inexperienced and have zero idea how to treat customers - specially customers with cars costing around $90,000 - they are borderline rude, don't seem to care about their work. Perhaps it's because they are so rushed by of the sheer number of customers. Tesla desperately needs more service capacity and staff who can at least pretend to care about customers.
Contacting Tesla when my car failed (by texting them from the app) was not a good experience either. I had to go through around nearly 30 minutes to texting back and for before the service guy at the other end agreed it was a car problem and not a new owner who didn't understand how to drive the car. Very annoying.
All in all, Tesla really needs to get its act together on multiple fronts. I love the car, but I have a strong dislike for the company. When it's time to change my car, I will buy another electric car but from another company, assuming there are equivalent cars available elsewhere when that time comes.
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refused that car although I had already paid the full price, and (of course) Tesla deducted my small deposit from my credit despite the fact it was their mistake that made me cancel the purchase.
Wait, Tesla stole your money, and then you went ahead and bought another car from them anyway?
Do you want to know how Tesla gets away with treating their customers this way? That's how.
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No, of course, they didn't steal it. I told them I would be ordering another car and asked them to credit me. Then they told me that my $100 deposit could not be credited as it was non-refundable - despite the fact that they messed up somewhere. It's a small amount but it was annoying.
Re:Typical Tesla problems (Score:5, Insightful)
Then they told me that my $100 deposit could not be credited as it was non-refundable - despite the fact that they messed up somewhere
Yes. That is called "stealing". The fact that they only stole $100 from you is relevant. This is why you don't do business with thieves.
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Everyone's a thief stopped only by morals and laws. I'm willing to bet Tesla's European offices wouldn't be so callous as to claim $100 is non-refundable due to their error. Consumer protection laws exist in basically every western country now ... except for the USA it seems.
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Don't worry. Canada also has no consumer protection. You're not alone (Trust me, after all the BS that Tesla pulled on me I tried every possible consumer protection agency we have. Apparently the vehicle manufacturers fall into a hole in jurisdiction where neither the normal consumer protection people can do anything "because it's a car" nor can the motor vehicle industry council "because they aren't a dealer", both agencies pointed me to the other. the BBB had a C- rating for them after investigating my co
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Everyone's a thief stopped only by morals and laws. I'm willing to bet Tesla's European offices wouldn't be so callous as to claim $100 is non-refundable due to their error. Consumer protection laws exist in basically every western country now ... except for the USA it seems.
Nah this is illegal in the US, too. Especially brazen to do that in California of all states.
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No, of course, they didn't steal it. I told them I would be ordering another car and asked them to credit me. Then they told me that my $100 deposit could not be credited as it was non-refundable - despite the fact that they messed up somewhere. It's a small amount but it was annoying.
I would have given them the address on your order in CA and let them sort it out.
Re: Typical Tesla problems (Score:2)
Hate to think what the bs "destination charge" car vendors tack on would have been.
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Yeah, that bit leapt out at me too.
There's a weird thing going on with Tesla. Everybody keeps telling me how wonderful the cars are yet there's a constant stream of horror stories about them. Often it's the same person giving both sides.
Whereas I buy a car from another manufacturer and.. I have a car. It runs. I drive it. A few years later I sell it. No fuss. No drama.
Call me when Tesla offer that experience.
That man has very prehensile buttocks... (Score:2)
Sorry to hear but.. (Score:2)
...how's the Autopilot?
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I recently drove my Tesla on a 600 mile (each way) trip. I used the car because I didn't like the idea of traveling in a metal tube for a couple of hours with a bunch of strangers. Actually I didn't do most of the driving - I would guess I drove about 10% of the time and autopilot drove the rest. The autopilot is great - most of the time. However it often can't handle some routine situations, such as construction zones. Situations involving hand signs from construction workers or emergency personnel ar
It's probably a good thing I can't afford one (Score:2)
Instead I get to post snarky comments.
So Tesla support nears Robinhood levels of stupid? (Score:2)
When one department refers you back to the department that forwarded you to them, it is an intentional problem for the customer. Quite frankly documented cases of this should allow compensation and punitive damages for the customer.
FURTHERMORE... (Score:2)
He was probably using an iPhone. Burn the witch!
Tesla Owner - This Guy Is Full Of It (Score:2)
This man just has buyer's remorse or his spouse found out and he's trying to backtrack.
Why is everyone obsessed with the butt dial angle? (Score:5, Interesting)
It doesn't matter at all if this guy legitimately "butt dialed" the purchase or not. It could be an accident, it could be a deliberate purchase with buyers remorse, or it could be a technical glitch. It could be anything. It doesn't matter. We don't live in a world where the default condition is that all sales are final. If a purchase can be undone, and it wasn't made under clear, non-refundable conditions (of which Tesla has an official refund policy), then the customer is owed a refund if they would like one!
This is a story about a person who wants a refund on a purchase, and seemingly cannot get one because the company in question has extraordinarily poor customer support. That's all. The rest is a circus and apparently there are a lot of clowns here.
*dons clown nose* and honestly, if I had to guess, I'd say this was not a butt dial but a fat-finger by a service center employee. Service centers can order these upgrades on the back end, and it seems like, from what is shown in the customer's app and they way Tesla so confused, that this is what happened. If the upgrade were purchased via the app, it would be refundable there. Service center upgrades send a push notification but cannot be undone by the app. Most likely someone ordered an upgrade at a service center and the service center employee opened the wrong account and clicked the button. It auto charged to the payment method of file for the account (used for super charging, so most accounts have one) and here we are.
30% (Score:2)
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Real answer to glib comment:
This is a purchase made in an app, not an in-app purchase, to be brain-meltingly legalistic. Because the purchase is primarily for the car, and doesn't actually change anything in the app, it falls under the rules for shopping apps. Likewise when people use the tesla app to pay for charging, it falls under the rules for shopping or financial transaction apps (amazon, venmo) where neither apple nor google would take a cut.
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Why does an automobile require a smartphone app? (Score:2)
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It is quite practical, to be honest.
I live in a winter-country (Norway). It's quite cold during the winter. I know I'll want to take a trip to the store in 15 minutes time? OK, I'll just open the app and tell my car to prep. The batteries and cabin are both pre-heated when I get into the car. Nice.
Where the fsck did I park? Can't remember. Can't find the ruddy car. Hmm.. open the app, make it make a sound. Ah! There it is! Other side of the bloody parking lot! (Or, I could just open the map and
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The phone app is simply another means of interfacing with your car. It's not the only way. Why does this anger you?
Re: Why does an automobile require a smartphone ap (Score:2)
No 2FA ? (Score:2)
Do not link full credit card to Tesla account (Score:2)
Total bullshit (Score:2)