Dead Goldfish Offered The Vote In Illinois 216
Election officials in northern Chicago want to know why voter registration material was sent to Princess, a dead goldfish. "I am just stunned at the level of people compromising the integrity of the voting process," said Lake County Clerk Willard Helander, a Republican, who said she has spotted problems with nearly 1,000 voter registrations this year. Beth Nudelman, who owned Princess, said the fish may have got on a mailing list because the family once filled in her name when they got a second phone line for a computer. When will we recognize a goldfish's right to vote?
The Obama Campaign (Score:3, Funny)
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No, Christopher doesn't. My name is on the phone line in question.
That is interesting, then. I figured that you may have purchased a phone line for your five-year-old (I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time its happened in this country).
I'll guess that you and your son don't have the same first name, since you said the campaign is calling for him and not you. Have you tried calling the local campaign office to get your son's name removed from the list?
Re:The Obama Campaign (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:The Obama Campaign (Score:4, Insightful)
It gets worse. ACORN has been registering dead people, homeless people, Mickey Mouse, you name it. What was even more sickening is that Democrats on Huffington Post claimed Republicans were trying to "steal the election" by shutting down the "legitimate operations" of ACORN.
I can't trust either one of these fucking political parties.
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Drawing the connection to the Democrat party isn't a stretch.
Actually, even Gumby would tear an arm out of it's socket if he tried to reach that far. ACORN is required by law to turn in all registration forms, so they flag the suspicious ones.
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Huh?!? Of course they are required to! No duh! We can't have people taking voter registration forms and arbitrarily not turn them in. Nobody has said that they shouldn't turn them in. Argue with what is written if you must, but don't argue against what you wish I had said.
Stop attacking straw men.
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Huh?!? Of course they are required to! No duh! We can't have people taking voter registration forms and arbitrarily not turn them in. Nobody has said that they shouldn't turn them in. Argue with what is written if you must, but don't argue against what you wish I had said.
Um, I am.
This isn't the first time this has happened "to" ACORN. Drawing the connection to the Democrat party isn't a stretch. At a minimum, Obama used to work for them. I'm not going to blame ACORN, yet. Let there be an investigation. Yes
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Sorry, but you're being selfishly narrow minded. You are also putting words into my mouth and I find that offensive.
While "policies or practices" does include turning in every registration form, that is a disingenuous, extremely narrow interpretation of the phrase. It also includes employee training, telling them that they will get caught and fired if they turn in fake records. It involves more than just flagging suspicious records, but firing the employees responsible in a timely manner. It involves ga
the great 'registration fraud' frad (Score:2)
You incompetent boob. ACORN is required by law to turn in all registration forms, even suspicious ones. The only thing they can do is flag forms they find to be suspicious, which is exactly what they do.
The so called problems with ACORN are nothing more than baseless Republican talking points, but I repeat myself.
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Re:The Obama Campaign (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps this is why we tend to elect governors as president, not senators.
Quantity vs. Quality of executive experience (Score:3, Informative)
Small town mayors and small state governors might have a certain x quantity of time on their resumes in the category of executive experience. But so do Pizza Hut managers.
I wouldn't for a moment consider either a small town mayors, small state governors, or a Pizza Hut managers to have the type of QUALITY of leadership experience required to seek national office.
It not just Sarah Palin that epic failed trying to move from small town mayor / governor to national candidate. Unfortunately, so did VT Gov. Howar
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I wouldn't for a moment consider either a small town mayors, small state governors, or a Pizza Hut managers to have the type of QUALITY of leadership experience required to seek national office.
That is what I said about Bill Clinton.
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By your logic, the average student council president has more "executive experience" and is therefore ready to lead the nation. Give me a break. If McCain died of a heart attack, or got so old he withered away and dissolved into dust like that dude in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, and Palin took power... I'd say that Russia would reclaim Alaska withing 72 hours. You betcha!
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I was just up there during their celebration of 50 years of statehood, people seemed pretty excited about it.
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We Texans went so far as to reserve the right.
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Even worse, Bush had more "executive experience" when he was elected than all 4 candidates this time around, and I think we all know how that turned out...
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Especially according to Cheney!
It made me laugh when I found who was in charge of picking a VP candidate for Bush.
Registration Materials (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh no, it got sent registration materials. It did not get registered. The paperwork was sent out based on a request. It is the end of Democracy as we know it!
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And if Princess registers, she will show up to the polling place and cast a ballot.
You think anyone would notice Princess isn't a qualified elector?
Re:Registration Materials (Score:5, Insightful)
Two words for this line of thinking: Absentee ballot.
Registration fraud is not just about making it possible to walk in and vote illegally in person, it also about just getting on the rolls so that a ballot can be requested by mail. And with the minimal validations being enforced in most states, it's not all that hard to do. There have already been reported cases of dead people having already voted, both federally and in the primaries.
Then of course there is the drive by voting trend that seems to be becoming more popular where people just enter a state long enough to register vote and leave (in direct violation of state voting laws). At least 14 cases have already been well documented (one an official Obama campaign worker and 13 others in an Obama associated 'get out the vote' group).
But to be fair in this stories case, this was more about a voter registration group just bulk mailing forms.
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Interesting side topic - if you kick the bucket between posting your absentee ballot and election day, is your vote supposed to count? (even if, in practice, nobody ever actually extracts the small number of votes which meet those criteria)
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Short answer: sometimes.
since every state is different it just matters where you live (or used to live).
In South Dakota, depending on the day of the month you died, then no it doesn't count. If the election happens before the state elections board discovers your dead, which is done by a automated check every couple of weeks, then it would count but in general, if they know you're dead your ballot is dismissed.
In Florida as long as you were alive when you filled in your ballot then everything is legal.
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Once you're on the roles it's as easy as that.
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In Ohio, your SSN, driver's license number, or a copy of a recent utility bill is required to vote absentee.
I suppose if Princess has a power bill in her name, she may be able to vote.
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Since Princess has a phone I wonder if she'll be voting for change?
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Newly registered voters have to show id - meaning they can't vote absentee.
Voter registration fraud != voter fraud.
I'm more concerned with long lines (hours long) in urban centers of red states than I am with princess voting.
Re:Registration Materials (Score:4, Insightful)
It gets even WORSE! Can you believe that some people are distributing BLANK registration forms that let you enter ANY NAME YOU WANT in the "Name" field??1!one! Let's throw out the entire democratic system because it can't possibly be perfect!
To clarify the summary-- the registration forms (not the actual registration) were sent to the goldfish because the owner had lied about a name on phone records previously, entering the goldfish's name. The goldfish was not registered, and probably could not have come up with the ID (the form required a driver's license # or last-four SSN that matched the name) if it tried.
Why am I not worried?
I'd be more concerned... (Score:2, Insightful)
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Re:I'd be more concerned... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Don't forget ageist!
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It also, in a state like mine, Arizona, helps weed out those who are here illegally, but who ACORN not only helped to get mortgages by the hundreds of thousands, but also helped find ways to register to vote. As these illegals tend to vote DEMOCRAT in disproportionate numbers, I guess you could call that partisan... I don't buy the "are poor and don't own vehicles" crap, as even many of the illegals purchase and own automobiles, and also, as an adult in this country, you can get a state ID that is not a dr
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At least in the state of Wisconsin getting a DL or ID costs $28 and is free to renew. Is there really such a large portion of the population that can't afford $28 lifetime? 13 cents a day for a year?
Discard that if you want, even when the government offered to pay for the IDs as part of the Real ID act it was unacceptable. People who don't carry any ID what so ever, at least in my experience, do it for the sole purpose of not being able to be identified, n
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At least in the state of Wisconsin getting a DL or ID costs $28 and is free to renew. Is there really such a large portion of the population that can't afford $28 lifetime? 13 cents a day for a year?
Why should someone have to go through the expense of getting a drivers license if they don't have a care? What is your rational for insisting that a fee be paid before people are entitled to their Constitutional rights?
Discard that if you want, even when the government offered to pay for the IDs as part of the
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ID is not required in California, and while a signature is required it is not compared to anything.
Even in Iraq, they had purple dye for the fingers to stop double voting.
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Ahh, Again, This will be my 8th Presidential Election, voting in California, I have lived and voted in 3 counties, and in all cases, probibly 12 to 14 diffrent precints, I have had to show my ID every single time. My signature is compaired to the one on my ID, and was challenged once. ( I was sloppy ).
Where in California did you vote? Baha?
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Ahh No. You need some form of ID ( DL or Passport ).
Never an exception. Did have to go home and grab it once.
You need to sign your name.
If a few absentee voters showed up at a polling place, like 2, they would audit the whole precinct.
They run a tight ship in CA, and Im living and voting in my third county.
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They got sent a registration form with Princess's name helpfully filled in. You can have as many blank registration forms as you like and fill in any name you want. That doesn't mean jack until the registrations get accepted, which in this case, has not even been attempted.
Gender-appropriate names (Score:2)
Willard? That's my first name (as it's the custom in my family to torture first sons with it for 9 generations now), and I've never heard it on a woman before.
Bad registration doesn't matter (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Bad registration doesn't matter (Score:5, Informative)
Even if the fish had been registered it wouldn't matter. Voter registration fraud or voter registration errors aren't an issue unless actual voting fraud occurs which is much more difficult. None of the erroneously registered or requested to register individuals are going to actually vote.
First, you can't have voter fraud without registration fraud. And once the vote takes place (ballot dropped in box), there is nothing you can do.
And yes, some of the "erroneously registered" have already voted in Ohio [nypost.com]:
The New Yorkers and nine other members from across the country are accused of packing themselves into a modest three-bedroom house in Columbus, waiting 30 days - and then registering, even though the Buckeye State is not their permanent residence.
Under Ohio law, a person who comes to the state for "temporary purposes only," without the intention of making it the "permanent place of abode" is not considered a resident. New permanent residents must live in Ohio 30 days before registering.
Four group members, including two of the New Yorkers, have already cast ballots, and six others requested absentee ballots from the county elections board.
So, I guess now it really is voter fraud and NOT just registration fraud!
I understand Princess the dead gold-fish did not vote, however.
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First, you can't have voter fraud without registration fraud.
This is a false statement. People can stuff ballot boxes without registering. As there is no registration needed to do this, there is no registration fraud. Machines can be hacked without registration. Again, since there is no registration, there is no registration fraud.
I understand that the line "No voter fraud without registration fraud" is one of the talking points of mouth-breathing Republicans, but it is a demonstrably false statement.
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Bumper sticker:
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Bumper sticker:
That would be cool, except it would be false. Take the economy for example. It was going great, breaking records even from 2002 to 2006. From 2006 to today, it's gone to shit. What happened in 2006? Oh yeah, the Democrats took over Congress. And anyone who has glanced over the Constitution knows that Congress controls the economy. So, how's this:
Everything was fine.
Democrats took Congress.
Everything is broken.
Any questions?
There, fixed that for ya!
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The economy? Seriously?
The economy was only "running" because the government was running huge deficits and interest rates were held abnormally low. The last 8 years should have been some of the best economic years that the U.S. have ever seen with that type of stimulus input.
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The economy? Seriously?
The economy was only "running" because the government was running huge deficits and interest rates were held abnormally low. The last 8 years should have been some of the best economic years that the U.S. have ever seen with that type of stimulus input.
Really? The gov't is running even higher deficits today. Why are we in a presumed recession, genius?
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Would you settle for "Successful registration fraud would more than likely lead to voter fraud?"
No, because that's nonsense. ACORN and other registrars are required by law to hand in all competed forms, even suspicious ones. Republicans have been completely incapable of demonstrating that vote registration fraud leads to vote fraud.
One reason for this is the fact that in most places you have to either show an ID, sign an affidavit affirming you are who you say you are, or fill out a provisional ballot. S
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No, because that's nonsense. ACORN and other registrars are required by law to hand in all competed forms, even suspicious ones. Republicans have been completely incapable of demonstrating that vote registration fraud leads to vote fraud.
Did you not read my previous post? You know, the one where people fraudulently registered and then fraudulently voted?
One reason for this is the fact that in most places you have to either show an ID, sign an affidavit affirming you are who you say you are, or fill out a provisional ballot. Showing up at the poll both with your 'Mickey Mouse' registration card isn't going to cut it.
Again, not true. In Ohio, during that week of "register and vote the same day", no ID's were checked because the voters were officially voting "absentee", where ID is not required by law. So, NO, ID's were NOT checked.
Registration fraud is a molehill next to the mountain of disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of eligible voters. It's how they won in 2000, and it's the only way they can win this year.
That has been debunked repeatedly over the past 8 years, yet you people keep saying it as if it will somehow make it true.
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Why, oh why God, would someone successfully commit voter fraud to gain the ability to vote fraudulently and then NOT VOTE FRAUDULENTLY. Just for shits and giggles?
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Bull.
I'd like to point out that I understand that this was just a case of the family getting a registration packet for a fish that was pining for the fjords.
However, the large influx of fraudulent/comical/garbage registrations that ARE being submitted is using up resources that should be used to remove the following entries:
1. non-citizens who have driver's licenses, and so (in some states) are automatically registered to vote
2. felons whose voting rights have been stripped as part of being found guilty, bu
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I never really understood why a state would take a felon's right to vote away actually. Here in Maine they even encourage inmates to vote and do the absentee ballot for them.
I got to work on a project that involved automating the request for absentee ballots for incarcerated people, it was tied in with registering to vote as well and inmates who weren't registered would be registered in the town/county of the facility that held them.
It is my opinion that the vote is such a fundamental right that almost noth
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You bull.
However, the large influx of fraudulent/comical/garbage registrations that ARE being submitted is using up resources that should be used to remove the following entries
Then work to get the federal law changed that requires registrars to hand in all registrations. But that law was passed for a good reason: the potential for abuse. You don't want the KKK doing a registration drive where they throw out forms based on their own arbitrary standards.
What ACORN can do is check registrations and flag for
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Whoever registered this fish could have went ahead and cast the vote at the same time.
What's worse than hackable voting machines? A screwed up registration process that can't even tell if you are a dead goldfish. An "erroneous" but valid voter registration will thwart any voting machine.
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Voter registration fraud or voter registration errors aren't an issue unless actual voting fraud occurs which is much more difficult. I'm guessing you meant more difficult to prove.
Oops, guess you missed this too:
the great 'registration fraud' fraud (Score:2)
Guess you missed the part where volunteer poll workers used "leftover" voter registrations at the end of the night to make up for the lack of legitimate votes in both Gary, Indiana and St. Louis, Missouri.
Which is a problem with registration, how exactly? If poll workers engage in shenanigans, that's a problem with the poll workers.
Public records released in New Mexico today confirm that fraudulent voter registrations are in fact turning into fraudulent votes. ACORN, currently under investigation by the F
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I completely disagree. All aspects of the voting system -- registration, actual voting, tallying -- need to be protected from tampering. Allowing false registration threatens to compromise the entire process, particularly when you consider states with no-ID laws, absentee voting, etc. Whether or not actual voting fraud takes places is not the issue; the fact that the potential for voting fraud exists is, in itself, enough that something should be done about it. After all, isn't this potential for fraud
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Im bringing my fish to the polls, but how can I get him to vote? All he does is swim eat and poop. Oh. He's a Republican.
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The problem with that thinking is that people are stuck on the concept of physically showing up to vote. As most states have some form of absentee voting system many of these fraudulent registrations can lead to actual votes.
There have already been reported cases of dead people voting through absentee ballots both federally and in the primaries.
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From what I could see as to the problems with voter access and understaffing it was almost entirely within Democratic controlled districts.
Since the voting districts in Florida are relatively self managing, meaning they pay for their own elections and set their own rules (although the local governments can request additional state funds if required), wouldn't this put the blame for poor voter services on the Democrats who ran those districts? The infamous Butterfly Ballot being a perfect example of how Dem
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You're ignoring the bogus felon list and the counting of blatantly illegal overseas ballots. But Gore got more votes in any case, as a statewide recount by the press proved.
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In North Carolina, 92% of the black population is claiming that they will vote for Obama. There's your "thousands" right there.
I'm amazed that whenever the issue of race comes up, it is always the white guys that are racist.
PETA (Score:5, Funny)
That's nothing (Score:2)
That's nothing, CowboyNeal even voted in 2004!
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In Soviet Russia, YOU vote for CowboyNeal!
In Cook County Todd Stroger did even need to win (Score:2)
In Cook County Todd Stroger did even need to win the vote to get in office. Last year some came into the polling saying there dead family member is still on the voting list for years even after calling in about it.
Re:In Cook County Todd Stroger did even need to wi (Score:2)
I'm registered to vote twice (not intentionally). I registered and voted at age 18 in my parents' city, then went off to college in another state, continuing to vote in my home state via absentee ballot. (I never registered in my temporary state even though they allowed college kids to do so.)
After college I moved back to my parents' state, in a different city, and registered to vote in my new precinct when I updated my driver's license. Now, eight years later, my name still appears on the voter rolls in
Here is some clue for ya idjits to mod down.... (Score:2)
I'm already hearing the apologists with their tired story that this is just registration fraud, no evidence of actual election fraud. Nothing to see here, move along.....
But they are wrong. Most are just repeating Kos talking points and aren't actually in on the scam, but they are useful idiots. So what IS the scam?
Go check out the CLOWARD-PIVEN STRATEGY [discoverthenetworks.org] for details. Basically the idea is to totally swamp the system so that there is insufficient manpower to detect fraud. So that is a win for them since
Are you kidding? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is Illinois, where' we're so patriotic even being dead doesn't keep us from voting! Being nonhuman doesn't keep us from voting!
VOTE EARLY! VOTE OFTEN!
Illinois is home to Al Capone and Richard Daily.
The last Democrat to be defeated by a Republican went to prison. The last Republican to be defeated by a Democrat is in prison right now. And our present Governor, a Democrat, will likely go to prison himself, as the Feds are scrutinizing him in the Rezco case.
Both Federal Senators are Democrats. The Governor is a Democrat. The state legislature is mostly Democrat. Obama is from Illinois. Guess who's going to win Illinois by a landslide, dead goldfish or no?
Which states are the fish-swing states? (Score:2)
Sorry, I must have missed this punditry ... which candidate has the most affinity for the fish electorate in the swing states?
The great seer, John Cleese, anticipated these problems back in the late 60's early 70's with his passive civil disobedience campaign, demanding a fish license (government ID) for "Eric, the Fish."
Since it was a "gold"-fish, I suspect that the usual group of Ron Paul supporters will be blamed for this.
It's shady business! (Score:2, Informative)
Go forward in time. I'm now 18 and able to register to vote. So I sign up with X instead of J, wondering if that'll go through EVEN THOUGH my birth certificate, social security number and drivers licen
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Maybe you, or someone else can explain why all of this is such a hassle to begin with.
In my country everyone who turns 18 and is a legal citizen of the country automatically gets a card sent in the mail on each election event, about where they are supposed to vote and how they can do an absentee vote and such.
Being born automatically means you are eligble to vote 18 years later.
If you're not issuing birth certificates, then how do you even know if and when someone was born in the USA? If you do, then why is
I have some more dead animules (Score:2, Interesting)
Son, get your shovel. Let's go dig up some votes!
So who is his VP Pick? (Score:2)
Didnt any one get to Poll him before his date with RALPH?
Huh? ABC? Neilson?
What was he thinking? Did he vote absentee?
Comon! Wakey Wakey? Who is the fish voting for?
What is his views? Is he a Swing voter or a Swim voter?
Oh He's dead. Must be a ....
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I agree. There has never, ever been any voter fraud and the sole purpose of actually proving you're who you say you are when you vote is a ploy to make sure minorities can't vote. Why should I need a photo Id when I vote, it's not like I need it for anything else like driving my car or buying cigarettes or alcohol.
Go ahead and keep living in your fantasy world where the sole act of saying nice things will get things done and the people who want to kill you will think more of you when you talk nice to them
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Actually drivers licenses are shall-issue, so they're more like a right. That is you have a right not to be denied a drivers license without cause.
Compare with a learner's permit, which is void after six months regardless.
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Actually, driving is a right as well. You have to have the freedom to travel to use your right of free association, and traveling = driving for most of the United States.
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Interesting definition of "supression" you have there, of course its the same one Dems use every election; "Requiring people to in any way validate their eligability to vote is supression". There is also the famous "making people stand in long lines is voter supression". In that last one the part they normally forget is that in many if not most of the areas with polling station problems are Democratically controlled. Meaning everything from which machine to use to the number ot have to the instructing of
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That is a fairly ridiculous conspiracy theory they've woven together there. I would rebut it with Hanlon's Razor [wikipedia.org] but it doesn't even merit that.
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I *knew* it. Only a dead fish would vote for Palin. The Pikes are jumping ship like makrel and the tuna are all democrats!