Study Shows Standing Up To Bullies Is Good For You 458
It will come as no surprise to anyone who's ever talked to my grandpa, but a recent study has shown that standing up to a bully is good for you. Although being bullied can be stressful and lead to depression, children who returned hostility were found more likely to develop healthy social and emotional skills. From the article: "In a study of American children aged 11 and 12, researchers from the University of California, Los Angeles, compared those who stood up to aggressors with those who did not. Children who returned hostility with hostility appeared to be the most mature, the researchers found. Boys who stood up to bullies and schoolyard enemies were judged more socially competent by their teachers. Girls who did the same were more popular and more admired by teachers and peers, the researchers found."
This is good for you (Score:5, Insightful)
until it isn't.
Re:This is good for you (Score:5, Insightful)
Headline reports causation while story only confirms correlation, news at 11.
Re:This is good for you (Score:4, Insightful)
only fight back if you can survive (Score:3, Interesting)
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Seriously, what were you thinking?
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Kids today have no place to channel aggression. Thus we get things like columbine happening.
There were more school shootings in the 80s than there were in the 90s or 00s. School shootings have been on a decline since 1993 - the problem is 24 hour news networks sensationalizing the few shootings that did occur making them high profile. But the actual numbers have been going down for quite a few years now.
The whole "kids are more violent and less respectful now" theme has probably been going on for as long as there have been children.
Peace and Love and Dr. Spock (Score:3, Insightful)
Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
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Good point! I doubt my standing-up would have done anything but result in my self getting hurt.
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe those willing to accept some personal injury as a consequence of keeping their pride and independance are viewed as being mature. Part of maturity is accepting that shit happens, but you have to soldier on anyhow. Immature adults, ie spineless dweebs, are always searching for someone else to accept the pain on their behalf.
This goes far beyond standing up to bullies. Accepting the pain of a workout in order to finish a marathon. Working long hours to get a promotion. Laboring in the hot sun to create a beautiful garden. Immature people want someone else to make the pain go away. Mature one will go through the pain to achieve a goal.
(Yes, idiots will go through the pain to say they went through the pain. But that is a different post 8*)
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Either you are mature or you are not. Parents have nothing to do with it. They can help a child mature earlier, but in the end, everyone has to do the deed on their own.
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
Accepting the pain of a workout in order to finish a marathon.
Suffering and possibly permanently damaging your knees and getting nothing in return. Is that maturity?
Working long hours to get a promotion.
And then realizing, your free time was more valuable in the first place.
Laboring in the hot sun to create a beautiful garden.
Well at least that one is a worthy goal.
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In typical Slashdot fashion, anti-exercise trolls come out of the woodworks!
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Interesting)
run a marathon . . . get[] nothing in return
In typical Slashdot fashion, anti-exercise trolls come out of the woodworks!
I did plenty of physical activities that damaged my body growing up and even I recognize the difference. Being opposed to getting kids to run marathons or compete in sports that are damaging is not anti-exercise. Marathons are pretty hard on the body, high impact on the joints. My cousins played basketball and several other sports and now they hobble around barely able to walk properly while not even middle aged yet. Calling opposition to marathons anti-exercise is like calling people who don't like poison ivy anti-plant people. A lot of us encourage healthy exercise while still not encouraging kids to exercise in ways that likely damage them permanently.
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, but I was responding to someone who said you get "nothing" out of running a marathon.
There is a chasm between "marathons can hurt your knees" and "marathons provide absolutely no benefit, physically or emotionally, whatsoever."
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
Working long hours to get a promotion.
Hahaha! This doesn't actually happen in real life. Companies don't give promotions any more. They just tell you "the budget is really tight this year" and don't give anyone any raises, but when they're short on help they hire someone new for more than all the existing employees are already making.
The only way to get a raise or a promotion is to get a new job.
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll be happy to take Gandhi. He succeeded only because the British were willing to let him. Do you think that non-violence works in China? North Korea? Russia? Any Islamic country (with the exception of Turkey)? Lying in front of trains to stop them doesn't work if the engineer just keeps driving.
Non-violence only works when used against the non-violent. Maturity has nothing to do with it, unless you are referring to cultural maturity. And then we get hopeless Social Darwinistic (or worse - Marxist.)
What utter bollocks (Score:4, Insightful)
What utter bollocks.
Non-violent means work better then violent means. The British didn't let Gandhi do his thing, they couldn't stop Gandhi without turning him into a martyr. Imprison him and protests will continue, he will gain more supporters. Kill him and he becomes a martyr, he will gain a lot more supporters.
Gandhi succeeded because he had the support of the people, not because of the British. All successful revolutions occur because the people supported it.
The Government of India turned out for the better, it took them half the time of China to reach the same (and in many ways superior) industrial capabilities. Compare this to violent revolutions that provided us with governments like, China, Soviet Russia, Iran, Burma, Taliban, most of whom are totalitarian and dirt poor.
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I think if you consider the data more closely, you'll see that the responses such the Mississippi civil rights murders were outliers rather than the norm. Don't get me wrong. There was widespread terrible, unacceptable violence. Further, racism was awful and its very good that it has become socially verboten. But most of the civil rights leaders lived to ripe old ages. The violence was not systematic nor was it approved of by the central government. Here, like in India, non-violence only works when us
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I don't mean to be offensive but this is why you are, and probably always will be, a beta.
Fear of pain is natural and healthy but continually putting off action due to fear is not healthy for you.
Obligatory:
"What do I care for your suffering? Pain, even agony, is no more than information before the senses, data fed to the computer of the mind. The lesson is simple: you have received the information, now act on it. Take control of the input and you shall become master of the output."
Human Hive
Chairman Sheng-
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I'm thinking a bully beating you so hard that he breaks your bones is probably going to be quite emotionally scarring.
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I agree. All you have to do is look upon the bullies with utter contempt. Once you look upon someone with contempt, there is little they can say which will hurt you. Physical pain, however, does still hurt.
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm thinking a bully beating you so hard that he breaks your bones is probably going to be quite emotionally scarring.
Whoever said that you had to fight fair? I was made to carry enough crap in my backpack in school that it was a pretty effective ball and chain. I didn't go around picking fights, but I sure wasn't going to get beat up. It wasn't long before the bullies went elsewhere.
Re:Or could it be (Score:4, Funny)
Metal lunch box FTW!
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Whoever said that you had to fight fair? I was made to carry enough crap in my backpack in school that it was a pretty effective ball and chain. I didn't go around picking fights, but I sure wasn't going to get beat up. It wasn't long before the bullies went elsewhere.
Sounds exactly like me. Back in school I got in a few fights over the years. You wanted to get in a fight with me? Fine. You were going to be hit in the head with something extremely hard and/or heavy right off the bat. A backpack full of books or a metal lunchbox, as the other guy who replied mentioned, is a wonderful opener. I would also use a handful of dirt to the eyes if the situation allowed.
I never seriously hurt anyone and never got seriously hurt. Overall I usually gave as good as I got even
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Standing up to a bully and getting hurt is better than just rolling over. Even if you lose, you still stood up to him. And that's worth something.
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But whips and chains excite me?
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Sticks and Stones may break my bones.
But whips and chains excite me!
FIFY
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That only those of good mental and emotional health have the strength to stand up to bullies?
"I don't know, good question. Let's go to our man on the street, Jon Katz and see what he has to say.
Jon?"
Hi Em. I write about dogs now, you bullies at slashdot made me spend years in therapy with your mean-spirited jokes and constant bashing of me and my columns. You know the nicest thing about writing about dogs? They don't talk ba"
"Jon, STFU, that'll be enough out of you."
No (Score:5, Interesting)
Some children that have no deficit of mental or emotional strength are taught by their parents that retaliation is wrong, that the meek are blessed, and that they should "turn the other cheek" as Jesus taught. This is reinforced by teachers who punish both students involved in a fight if either one defends himself against the other.
It is a testament to the children's stoicism that they can accomplish this. Unfortunately for them, it looks like doing so may negatively impact their mental and emotional development (yeah correlation is not causation and all that...that's why I said "MAY").
This happened to me. My parents were evangelical nuts. They set me up to go be a victim in public schools, which I was. I have no idea what psychological ramifications that may have for me today...but I DO know that when I started training in martial arts in high school, the bullying stopped, and I never had to hit anyone (which actually kind of disappointed me, because I had a lot of anger I wanted to unleash on the next unsuspecting bully).
Re:No (Score:4, Funny)
I was always mainly invulnerable... for practical purposes. Had people 3 times my size wail on me in school... these days i still get hit by cars going a decent 20-30mph and shrug it off (look I'm impatient sometimes ok?). People just have trouble hurting me. A few hard swings with a baseball bat to the temple, or something pointy, yeah; but I can block a metal pipe with my freaking forearm, and take it to the chest or abs without much more than just minimal pain (mainly annoyance).
It's strange but I rarely stand up for myself. I just decide that these people are idiots, and ignore them. If they attack me, I'll push them away... with my fists. They can't really hurt me at all. The only time I'll actually step in is when I have to defend someone else-- because let's face it, I'm way more durable than you are, I can't just stand by and let you get beaten until you're broken and bleeding. And you know what? When you can stand through the few hits someone twice your size can get off on you before you empty on them, you find out that one good fist to the face or dead center in the chest can put someone down pretty quick; it's not a matter of actually injuring them, it's more a matter of them being too scared to continue to fight once they realize you've got MUCH less work to do than they do.
Martial arts are important... I need to be able to react to knives or attacks that can actually hurt me (there's plenty of good ways to do this) so I can avoid taking anything lethal or crippling. But by and large, I just don't care. It's not that I'm "good" or "righteous" or whatever and I know violence is bad; I just don't give a shit, because none of you can hurt me, and only idiots ever see the need to try.
Re:No (Score:4, Funny)
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I never knew Clark Kent posted to Slashdot.
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Re:No (Score:5, Interesting)
I had this problem. I was on the wrestling team at a heavier but very fit weight, being a state wrestler. I was also a nerd who greatly enjoyed his computers and D&D. Being a nerd, it was of course appropriate to gleek (spit) me, push, tease mercilessly, and otherwise inflict cruelty.
One day in the 8th grade, a thug hit me on the back of the head. I turned around, headlocked him to the ground, and punched him until he was unconscious. He was an untrained baboon who didn't stand a chance. A teacher came over and broke up the fight.
Like something out of a lame Hughes movie, I was applauded when I entered the cafeteria that day. I was exceedingly popular for the next two weeks - everyone likes seeing a thug get what they deserve. I never had to fight again either, as everyone who laid a finger on me knew what would happen.
Unfortunately, I received the same punishment as the thug who hit me. This is not right. There is distinct disconnect in administration perception and the reality of the situation of what happens to the various social pariahs. The social pariahs are punished for fighting back and therefore the bullies are encouraged. Let me say this more clearly. Zero tolerance policies lead to bullying.
It is my belief that the support of bullying leads directly to situations such as those boys in Columbine. If you cannot fight back, then you must either totally submit to all indignities or rebel against hopeless odds.
There should be a physical violence outlet for the social pariahs against bullies. Bullies need to be confronted, physically, by the social pariahs. It is in the natural order of things that a whipped dog bites back eventually. It is natural and beneficial for the social pariah (and probably for the bully as well) that bullies be beaten in fights.
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
Understand. Schools do NOT have a zero tolerance policy against violence. They have a zero tolerance policy against making them deal with the violence in their schools.
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You couldn't be more right. Often the teachers know the kids are being bullied, they just do nothing about it because the problem is not "necessary" to intervene in.
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Unfortunately, I received the same punishment as the thug who hit me. This is not right.
Dude, I'm all for standing up for yourself, but you don't get away with beating someone into unconsciousness for just punching you once.
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Most wars cause famine, because fields are destroyed, able bodied farmers are drafted into military and die and most of the industrial resources of the warring countries are diverted towards the military complex instead of improving food production. So your argument is invalid. Fighting does not actually solve famine, it just makes sure that military gets fed and that's all.
Re:No (Score:4, Interesting)
Speaking personally, I had an issue with a bully in junior high once (understand that this guy was one of those monsters...back when the rest of us were benching 120 lbs. maybe, this guy and one other were already benching well over 200), when he decided to make the rather asinine demand that no one could use the showers next to him in the locker room. Being as I was not inclined to inconvenience myself by kowtowing to ridiculous demands, I used a neighboring shower and was struck by the bully hard enough that folks out in the main locker room heard it. I didn't give him the reaction he was expecting, however, and instead just turned to him and asked if he was done. He was a bit taken aback at how I handled myself, and let me go on my way after that. From then on, both he and everyone else gave me a lot more respect since they knew that if I hadn't flinched when facing him, I wouldn't flinch in lesser situations that were common every day. I never had to face a bully again, and actually became friends with him over time, strangely enough.
I never had to hit him, but I was never a victim either. He and I both knew that. I would say that I responded meekly (though not by your definition), since being meek doesn't mean being a simpering fool or someone without strength. It's about having the strength but demonstrating the self-control to not use it unnecessarily. It's a measure of applied wisdom and humility or a quiet confidence. You can be hit without being a victim, just as you can never be hit and yet still be a victim. There definitely are times and places where hitting back is the appropriate response, I won't deny that. But to suggest that it's the only appropriate response is entirely incorrect. It's a last resort that is rarely necessary, and I hold that kids who learn to make the alternatives work are the better for it, since they learn confidence and self-assurance, rather than learning merely how to retaliate when pushed too hard.
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Speaking solely from my own experience, nothing improved social standing, and thus the treatment I got from teachers and peers, like demonstrating a willingness to respond to bullying by throwing a few punches. For instance, in 3rd grade my teacher actually was requiring me to read self-help books on how to deal with social pressures. It didn't help, of course, just was one more indignity. Whereas in 4th grade I started using violence to combat violence, and while I was given detention several times my teac
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Schools (Score:5, Insightful)
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If you hit the bully first, then YOU are the bully in the school's eyes. They have no choice but to take this stance. So you have to provoke them to hit you first, and make sure everyone sees it, then make sure everyone sees you defend yourself back hard. No one will mess with you after that, but it's really hard to get setup and you'll still probably get expelled for fighting.
The best option is to rearrange your schedule, get busy with anything else, and know that high school is not a life sentence (exce
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After thousands of years of basically putting up with bullying as a natural phenomenon of growing up, the American education establishment has discovered that bullying is bad for kids and is actively pushing to prevent it. Google "anti-bullying" and you get dozens of links to anti-bullying programs, slogans, academics doing studies on bullying (one guy from Yale announced that victims of bullying are at higher risk of thinking about or attempting suicide).
Parents who grew up in the 1960s or 1970s are now p
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It's called Confidence (Score:5, Insightful)
When you've got it, everyone knows it; you're better at everything because you believe in yourself.
When you don't, you're living in your own shadow.
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In many areas, I have low confidence in myself, and I do all the better for it. I was unsure of how I would do when I studied computer science at the university level, and as a result I got mostly A+ grades my first year. As I grew more confident, my grades actually decreased. It also works the other way. How many incompetent boobs have you seen who are overconfident in their abilities? I would say their confidence does not depend on their skills, and thus they lack any motivation to try harder. Why would t
smack 'em around (Score:3, Informative)
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So yeah, teach your kids from the earliest age possible to fight back with everything they've got. Tell them not to worry about hurting the bully. The bully deserves whatever they get.
Balance, grasshopper. Sometimes people tell that to their kids, and their kids become the biggest bullis ever because they interpret every little thing as worthy of righteous savage retribution.
You have to teach them to never start a fight, but if someone else decides that there is a fight, if someone else has taken the decision that someone would be hurt, then you make sure that person is the one to get hurt, and it has to be the kind of pain and humiliation that will make them fear you forever. If they do
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... then you make sure that person is the one to get hurt, and it has to be the kind of pain and humiliation that will make them fear you forever. If they don't respect you, make them fear you.
In my experience, this doesn't take much for most bullies. They're used to getting their own way due to fear and often don't know what to do when someone pushes back.
Once a bully pushed me a little too far in a graphics arts class in middle school and got a left hook to the jaw for his trouble. I found out shortly after, after I'd stopped shaking, that it had been my fist, apparently acting on its own sense of justice. Admiring classmates that were suddenly emboldened by a bully being put in his place t
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... then you make sure that person is the one to get hurt, and it has to be the kind of pain and humiliation that will make them fear you forever. If they don't respect you, make them fear you.
In my experience, this doesn't take much for most bullies.
No kidding, one quick karate kick to the shin was all I had to do to get my very own Malfoy to call me crazy and leave me the hell alone in elementary. His two goons didn't even step forward. Very satisfying.
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I said, "fight back" not "kill everyone that doesn't like you."
You misread me. "Fight back" is understood by most readers to mean, "if you are attacked, defend yourself vigorously."
I did not misread you, and you didn't say "fight back" you said "kids from the earliest age possible to fight back", and (I will put the important bit in bold) very young kids will not understand this, not the way you expect most readers to understand it.
Was I clear enough the second time?
I'll try a third, just in case: Very young children can interpret the slightest disagreement as a fight, and they will fight back disproportionately if you taught them to immediately take their aggression from 0 to 100.
Und
Stand up, or get beaten down (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't stand up to a bully, you'll only look like an attractive target to other bullies, and other non-bullies who might feel inclined to bully you because they know you won't respond.
There's not just physical bullying either. Look at just about any teenage girl today. They're the most vile, fire-breathing, hostile creatures that walk the face of the Earth today, and they won't think twice about emotionally bullying a peer to the point of suicide.
Failing to stand up just means you get bullied more, with sometimes fatal results.
Re:Stand up, or get beaten down (Score:4, Interesting)
A bully used to pick on my son. I got tired of him coming home from school with bruises and scratches, so I taught him how to punch. At random times, I'd hold up my open hand and yell "hit me" and he'd smack my hand as hard as he could. He thought that was pretty fun, but we stopped once he good good enough that it started to hurt.
Then, I told him that if the kid ever touched him again, my son was to punch him as hard as he could in the nose. I told him not to talk, not to negotiate, not to try to come up with some witty comeback, but to smack him in the snout. Next, I told his teacher about the plan, and she hinted that it was about time someone did it.
The boy slapped my son. My son put the boy on the ground. Since that day, the bully never picked on my son or any other kid, and no one else has ever messed with my boy.
It would be great if everyone could just play nicely, but since some people won't do it voluntarily, we have to be prepared to make them if need be.
Survival of the fittest (Score:3, Funny)
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What I find to be quite humorous is that the scientific processes used to dismiss things like the "divine right of kings" and the like is now using genetics to form basic predestination which basic observation using the scientific method disproved.
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Exactly, I don't think bullies are like that genetically, Because a lot of the bullies are the same kids who got bullied earlier... Environment really does count more then genetics. Using genetics as an excuse is really just a lame excuse to be lazy, and not fix yourself. Genetics at best will give you an instinct to do something or not. However we fight our instincts all the time, as we know it is better to do something else.
I think the real problem is there is so much mind washing in school, that mak
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DNA isn't the only way that traits are passed from parent to offspring. Socialized traits are also heritable.
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How about killing the bullies? Before they have a chance to reproduce, of course. Clean up the gene pool! No bullies allowed!
Ah-hem! [tvtropes.org]
Was it good for you? (Score:5, Funny)
I prefer to take the same route and as beta male dogs; I pee on myself to show submission.
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That's the problem: asking kids to differentiate between "alpha male" bullying and "budding psychopath" bullying. Standing up to one gets them to back down, standing up to the other leads to escalation.
I stood up to my bully once. Slugged him in the nose in front of everyone after he yanked me around by my backpack while I was wearing it and dumped all the books out. Felt great for a day, then the next day his friends held me down while he proceeded to put me in the hospital.
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Child soldiers? (Score:3, Insightful)
On the contrary, most children would murder someone if they had the chance.
Why do you think child soldiers are so popular? Because you want a soldier who can barely lift a rifle? or because you want someone who murders without compassion or feeling?
Children are NOT nice.
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Correlation and causuation (Score:2, Insightful)
"Don't fight back - they'll get bored" (Score:5, Informative)
Well the subject makes it clear what I was told....
However it was until I decided to smash one guys head with a huge book, and kick another where it hurt while wearing steel toe caps that I got the reputation for being a "bit crazy and mad" that they stopped.
Yes, hit them back. It works and they don't expect it. Just make sure your ready and know how to defend yourself else you'll end up getting hurt even more.
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Hitting back only works if it's your first response. If you've already led on a ton of times, then hitting back seems like an escalation. It has to come out of nowhere in order to work. Also, don't hit back without really meaning it, you have to have the 'will of the warrior' and hit like your life depends on it. Unfortunately, you will probably get expelled if you do this now, because any bully willing to push someone that far is likely going to make an even bigger joke out of getting you expelled for
I'm thinking (Score:2, Interesting)
Study fails the acid test. What's an Adult bully? A mugger/robber/assailant. Is standing up to robbers/assailants/masked figures making demands or taunting @, good for you? The answer should be sometimes. Sometimes it is essential, sometimes it is suicidal. Sometimes it is just smart, that would be when the bully is bluffing, and you are the one with the gun.
Back to children... Its good for you, only if the bully's response to you standing up is something other than engaging you in a fight you can't
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i thought adult bullies were called cops...
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This is the error so many doormats make.
The point isn't to win.
The point is to make sure that every time someone messes with you they go away from it with a black eye, a broken nose or some other painful or slow to heal injury.
It doesn't matter if you "lose" any particular encounter.
If you make sure you hurt them back every single time the bullying stops in no time at all.
As a child standing up to bullies is always the right thing to do.
It doesn't matter if you get hurt, it doesn't matter if you lose.
Only problem with that (Score:4, Informative)
The problem with that, as I'm sure many others here can attest to, is were one to stand up to bullies, many schools somehow managed to punish the bullied student worse than the bully, who often gets off scot free, no matter what.
I hope things are somewhat better now, with all the anti-bullying programs and stuff, than when I went to school in the '90s and early 2000s.
It is somewhat of a consolation in a perverse way to find out what most former bullies do now that we're all adults. A great many can hardly hold down a minimum wage job, and blow all their money on alcohol, cigarettes and drugs. In theory, I wish them the best. But, yeah...
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The problem with that, as I'm sure many others here can attest to, is were one to stand up to bullies, many schools somehow managed to punish the bullied student worse than the bully, who often gets off scot free, no matter what.
Well, then you have to break the principal's legs.
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This is true and it goes a bit further. Teachers who stood up to their bullies, often see bullied students as "problem students", sometimes going as far as punishing the student for being a disruption. After a while, the problem student, despite being a good kid, will begin to feel that he or she not only deserves to be bullied, but accepts that it is somehow the "right" thing. In the end, if they fight back, the teacher finally has their chance to axe the disruption and the pecking order will get to return
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Social status (Score:4, Funny)
So is classmates.com (Score:2)
Looking up former high school bullies on www.classmates.com can also be a cathartic experience. It's amazing how those kids turned out as adults. The correlation, at least in my experience, is too good to be coincidental (or perhaps it's a self fulfilling prophecy). In either case it's rather karmic to see the behavioral traits that led to bullying in junior and senior high school also led to dead end jobs, too many children to support on their unskilled salary, and multiple marriages.
I suppose the flip sid
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Most of the bullies I knew from middle to highschool, are all on probation for something. Have been arrested several dozen times, and live in the shitholes of the city. And nothing of value was lost.
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Risky conclusion (Score:4, Insightful)
While I am somewhere in between socially adept and not, I can safely say that I have had my run-ins with bullies. Some I stood up to and others I did not. On one occasion, I got the crap beat out of me. This particular bully later on causing severe permanent injury to another kid.
The point is, it's risky to say "this is more healthy" when it could potentially lead to severe injury or even death. These days, depending on where you live, bullies carry guns and other weapons, travel in gangs and don't take well to humiliation even if you win the first time around.
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I always... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Standing up to bullies is good for you" (Score:2)
We would have known this a lot sooner, but previous experiments always ended with the test subjects getting their asses beat and unwilling to say more for fear of further reprisal.
Direction of causality? (Score:2)
In related research, researchers have found that 11- and 12-year olds who master calculus develop better math skills than those who do not.
Prisoner's Dilemma (Score:5, Interesting)
I always felt that bullying was an iterated prisoner's dilemma [wikipedia.org] situation. It's well-known that the optimum strategy for the iterated prisoner's dilemma is cooperate first, then tit-for-tat [wikipedia.org] thereafter. In this context, "tit-for-tat" would mean fighting back.
What about zero-tolerance policies? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Good for you... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good for you... (Score:5, Insightful)
No they don't. There is a significant number of people, probably even a majority, who think that people who stand up to injustice just don't know their place. That they are "uppity." Maybe they just don't consider the injustice serious enough to warrant a conflict or they think social order is more important than righting a wrong or, and I see this one a lot, they think the person who is speaking truth to power is going to get squashed in response and that they are fools for even trying. I think the last is a projection of their own cowardice - at the very least they could be cheering the guy on, but instead they feel like they have to denigrate him as a way to justify their own inaction.
Re: (Score:2)
I think you're both wrong. It's a might makes right world. Whoever wins the fight often are right in many people's eyes.
There are exceptions but between 2 guys, that's how it is with many people.
Re:Good for you... (Score:4, Insightful)
I went through this very thing in adult life where a small group of people were abusing their power and I resisted. I kept pointing out to them that they were violating the law and behaving as bullies and that if they kept it up they would end up in court. I didn't take action for a very long time, years, because who wants to litigate against people you have to deal with on a daily basis? In hindsight that continuing reluctance to escalate was a mistake. But eventually I did launch an action against them.
One day the ring leader comes to talk to me and after trying and failing to scare me he asked what I would do if I lost (because I could lose everything I owned) and I told him "Then I guess I'll lose and start over - it's a matter of principle to me." Whooosh... the guy (who was quite a weasel) just couldn't understand that anyone would do that. They kept it up, perjured themselves, and took every opportunity, frequently illegal, to pressure me into quitting. Eventually they lost, settling out of court. My health suffered significantly, and probably permanently, and financially my costs were only partly covered (the lawyers for both sides did quite well). Somehow they have twisted this around in their minds that I'm somehow the wrong one, a bully (roflmao) etc. etc. That's despite the fact that when the bill came and they whined their own lawyer told them "Well you did something wrong and now you're paying the price."
Their anger is almost palpable. My take on it is that even though I had appealed to them on a regular basis, individually and as a group, to solve the problem without further conflict, that the facts showed they had repeatedly behaved atrociously and illegally, they are unwilling to think of themselves like that so some mental gymnastics occur so that they can believe they were in the right and I was just... evil? I just did what I thought my Dad would have done. As for the group they are continuing on with their old ways - just not trying to do it to me again. So far.
Standing up to bullies doesn't make them stop bullying, it just makes them pick an easier target.
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Man, what a terrible, terrible example - supporting the US army is supporting standing up to injustice? That's EXACTLY the kind of falling in line with the strong over the weak I was talking about. Support the whistle-blowers in the military - those are the weak who speak truth to power and frequently get squashed for it, despite all the PR about not obeying unlawful orders. The regular troops? They are just the means of corporate american bullying of the rest of the world. They are the most powerful f
Re: (Score:2)
Humans always admire those who stand up to injustice, especially if they succeed. Look at the founding fathers of the US, Civil War "heroes", etc. It makes no difference if you are 8 fighting the school bully or if you are 28 fighting against tyranny, or if you are 78 and fighting injustice in the legal system.
Humans *always* admire those who stand up to injustice? Except those who are inflicting the injustice. Americans despise Terrorists, but who are they, except those that practice asymmetrical resistance to their own perceived injustice? What are "activist judges"? Aren't they despised by half the country that wants to continue to persecute homosexuals? Same on the other side of the fence. Most on the left hate Sara Palin, even though those on the right consider her to be fighting against the injustice of big
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