Study Shows Standing Up To Bullies Is Good For You 458
It will come as no surprise to anyone who's ever talked to my grandpa, but a recent study has shown that standing up to a bully is good for you. Although being bullied can be stressful and lead to depression, children who returned hostility were found more likely to develop healthy social and emotional skills. From the article: "In a study of American children aged 11 and 12, researchers from the University of California, Los Angeles, compared those who stood up to aggressors with those who did not. Children who returned hostility with hostility appeared to be the most mature, the researchers found. Boys who stood up to bullies and schoolyard enemies were judged more socially competent by their teachers. Girls who did the same were more popular and more admired by teachers and peers, the researchers found."
This is good for you (Score:5, Insightful)
until it isn't.
Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
Schools (Score:5, Insightful)
It's called Confidence (Score:5, Insightful)
When you've got it, everyone knows it; you're better at everything because you believe in yourself.
When you don't, you're living in your own shadow.
Re:Good for you... (Score:5, Insightful)
Stand up, or get beaten down (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't stand up to a bully, you'll only look like an attractive target to other bullies, and other non-bullies who might feel inclined to bully you because they know you won't respond.
There's not just physical bullying either. Look at just about any teenage girl today. They're the most vile, fire-breathing, hostile creatures that walk the face of the Earth today, and they won't think twice about emotionally bullying a peer to the point of suicide.
Failing to stand up just means you get bullied more, with sometimes fatal results.
Re:Or could it be (Score:3, Insightful)
Correlation and causuation (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Survival of the fittest (Score:3, Insightful)
What I find to be quite humorous is that the scientific processes used to dismiss things like the "divine right of kings" and the like is now using genetics to form basic predestination which basic observation using the scientific method disproved.
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe those willing to accept some personal injury as a consequence of keeping their pride and independance are viewed as being mature. Part of maturity is accepting that shit happens, but you have to soldier on anyhow. Immature adults, ie spineless dweebs, are always searching for someone else to accept the pain on their behalf.
This goes far beyond standing up to bullies. Accepting the pain of a workout in order to finish a marathon. Working long hours to get a promotion. Laboring in the hot sun to create a beautiful garden. Immature people want someone else to make the pain go away. Mature one will go through the pain to achieve a goal.
(Yes, idiots will go through the pain to say they went through the pain. But that is a different post 8*)
Re:Good for you... (Score:5, Insightful)
No they don't. There is a significant number of people, probably even a majority, who think that people who stand up to injustice just don't know their place. That they are "uppity." Maybe they just don't consider the injustice serious enough to warrant a conflict or they think social order is more important than righting a wrong or, and I see this one a lot, they think the person who is speaking truth to power is going to get squashed in response and that they are fools for even trying. I think the last is a projection of their own cowardice - at the very least they could be cheering the guy on, but instead they feel like they have to denigrate him as a way to justify their own inaction.
Child soldiers? (Score:3, Insightful)
On the contrary, most children would murder someone if they had the chance.
Why do you think child soldiers are so popular? Because you want a soldier who can barely lift a rifle? or because you want someone who murders without compassion or feeling?
Children are NOT nice.
Risky conclusion (Score:4, Insightful)
While I am somewhere in between socially adept and not, I can safely say that I have had my run-ins with bullies. Some I stood up to and others I did not. On one occasion, I got the crap beat out of me. This particular bully later on causing severe permanent injury to another kid.
The point is, it's risky to say "this is more healthy" when it could potentially lead to severe injury or even death. These days, depending on where you live, bullies carry guns and other weapons, travel in gangs and don't take well to humiliation even if you win the first time around.
I always... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Or could it be (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm thinking a bully beating you so hard that he breaks your bones is probably going to be quite emotionally scarring.
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm thinking a bully beating you so hard that he breaks your bones is probably going to be quite emotionally scarring.
Whoever said that you had to fight fair? I was made to carry enough crap in my backpack in school that it was a pretty effective ball and chain. I didn't go around picking fights, but I sure wasn't going to get beat up. It wasn't long before the bullies went elsewhere.
Re:"Don't fight back - they'll get bored" (Score:3, Insightful)
Hitting back only works if it's your first response. If you've already led on a ton of times, then hitting back seems like an escalation. It has to come out of nowhere in order to work. Also, don't hit back without really meaning it, you have to have the 'will of the warrior' and hit like your life depends on it. Unfortunately, you will probably get expelled if you do this now, because any bully willing to push someone that far is likely going to make an even bigger joke out of getting you expelled for fighting back.
So if you are willing to accept the consequences for YOU hitting THEM, and you are willing to go 110% of the distance in the fight, by all means go for it. Otherwise, just change classes or whatever and understand that high school will be over soon and you'll never see them again... until they are pumping your gas one day.
Re:I'm thinking (Score:3, Insightful)
This is the error so many doormats make.
The point isn't to win.
The point is to make sure that every time someone messes with you they go away from it with a black eye, a broken nose or some other painful or slow to heal injury.
It doesn't matter if you "lose" any particular encounter.
If you make sure you hurt them back every single time the bullying stops in no time at all.
As a child standing up to bullies is always the right thing to do.
It doesn't matter if you get hurt, it doesn't matter if you lose.
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
Accepting the pain of a workout in order to finish a marathon.
Suffering and possibly permanently damaging your knees and getting nothing in return. Is that maturity?
Working long hours to get a promotion.
And then realizing, your free time was more valuable in the first place.
Laboring in the hot sun to create a beautiful garden.
Well at least that one is a worthy goal.
Re:It's called Confidence (Score:3, Insightful)
In many areas, I have low confidence in myself, and I do all the better for it. I was unsure of how I would do when I studied computer science at the university level, and as a result I got mostly A+ grades my first year. As I grew more confident, my grades actually decreased. It also works the other way. How many incompetent boobs have you seen who are overconfident in their abilities? I would say their confidence does not depend on their skills, and thus they lack any motivation to try harder. Why would they? They're perfect already!
When it comes to asking girls on dates, overconfidence really does result in better performance. Women flock to overconfident jerks.
Re:Or could it be (Score:2, Insightful)
Whoever said that you had to fight fair? I was made to carry enough crap in my backpack in school that it was a pretty effective ball and chain. I didn't go around picking fights, but I sure wasn't going to get beat up. It wasn't long before the bullies went elsewhere.
Sounds exactly like me. Back in school I got in a few fights over the years. You wanted to get in a fight with me? Fine. You were going to be hit in the head with something extremely hard and/or heavy right off the bat. A backpack full of books or a metal lunchbox, as the other guy who replied mentioned, is a wonderful opener. I would also use a handful of dirt to the eyes if the situation allowed.
I never seriously hurt anyone and never got seriously hurt. Overall I usually gave as good as I got even if I was the skinnier kid.
I've not had to fight in forever but if I ever have to again, well I have a really good idea what my opening moves are likely to be.
Re:Or could it be (Score:1, Insightful)
My old man took me to a boxing club when I was eight - lost the fear of being hit and could give it back. Not all parents can prepare a child and not all will have it in them to fight back. It was cool to see the bully perplexed because you did not cry or then wanted to lay one on them. Bullies in any walk of life are really cowards in many ways.
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
Understand. Schools do NOT have a zero tolerance policy against violence. They have a zero tolerance policy against making them deal with the violence in their schools.
Re:Schools (Score:1, Insightful)
This the the problem I had. My family moved a lot so I had plenty of opportunities to show up in a new place, become the new kid, and get bullied. If I was bullied by a group, I couldn't fight without getting beaten. If I was bullied by an individual, they played the system and I got punished equally if I fought (assuming I was successful, they sometimes got away with it if they won).
The clearest (most recent) example in my mind was 7th grade. I got pushed over the edge one day and started fighting with 3 guys, and one was twice my size. It ended with me on the ground bleeding getting kicked in the ribs by that guy (the other two were sane enough to leave by that point). An adult saw then end of it (but couldn't get there). End result was a day of detention for me (for fighting) and two days suspension for the three other guys. Yes, two days of no school with parents who apparently don't care.
Yeah. Way to go school system. I nearly get some broken ribs and I get a nice insult for my injury while the bullies get a (in their situation) lighter punishment. School sucks. Can't even blame a specific school system because I went to both public and private schools. None of them were any good regardless of the approach I took.
I stood up repeatedly but I'm a social mess today. Eventually I learned how useless it is. Maybe that's it. Maybe some other factors. For most of middle school and all of high school (till I learned martial arts) I did my best to pretend bullies weren't there but the fact is there are some things that can't be ignored and they also flavor social perceptions to make life miserable.
I do find it funny now that I think of it. On TV high schools are stereotyped with physical bullying but I don't know of any of that happening at my high school. It was all elementary and middle school. All the high school fights were two hotheads. Time to shut myself up. I could babble for far too long like this.
Re:Or could it be (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, but I was responding to someone who said you get "nothing" out of running a marathon.
There is a chasm between "marathons can hurt your knees" and "marathons provide absolutely no benefit, physically or emotionally, whatsoever."
Re:This is good for you (Score:5, Insightful)
Headline reports causation while story only confirms correlation, news at 11.
Re:Or could it be (Score:1, Insightful)
Even if there are three bullies against one of you, you can still sucker-punch one of them afterwards. That still counts. Even if they make you bleed after that. They need to win you all the time, for you it is enough to win once, even for a short moment.
Re:Or could it be (Score:3, Insightful)
Either you are mature or you are not. Parents have nothing to do with it. They can help a child mature earlier, but in the end, everyone has to do the deed on their own.
Re:smack 'em around (Score:2, Insightful)
Real men (boys) were supposed to trade punches until one of them submitted or was incapacitated. Fighting meant boxing without gloves, basically.
This was the late nineteen-seventies in a Boston suburb. It was not a good time to be in Boston.
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
Working long hours to get a promotion.
Hahaha! This doesn't actually happen in real life. Companies don't give promotions any more. They just tell you "the budget is really tight this year" and don't give anyone any raises, but when they're short on help they hire someone new for more than all the existing employees are already making.
The only way to get a raise or a promotion is to get a new job.
Re:This is good for you (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Or could it be (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll be happy to take Gandhi. He succeeded only because the British were willing to let him. Do you think that non-violence works in China? North Korea? Russia? Any Islamic country (with the exception of Turkey)? Lying in front of trains to stop them doesn't work if the engineer just keeps driving.
Non-violence only works when used against the non-violent. Maturity has nothing to do with it, unless you are referring to cultural maturity. And then we get hopeless Social Darwinistic (or worse - Marxist.)
Re:Good for you... (Score:4, Insightful)
I went through this very thing in adult life where a small group of people were abusing their power and I resisted. I kept pointing out to them that they were violating the law and behaving as bullies and that if they kept it up they would end up in court. I didn't take action for a very long time, years, because who wants to litigate against people you have to deal with on a daily basis? In hindsight that continuing reluctance to escalate was a mistake. But eventually I did launch an action against them.
One day the ring leader comes to talk to me and after trying and failing to scare me he asked what I would do if I lost (because I could lose everything I owned) and I told him "Then I guess I'll lose and start over - it's a matter of principle to me." Whooosh... the guy (who was quite a weasel) just couldn't understand that anyone would do that. They kept it up, perjured themselves, and took every opportunity, frequently illegal, to pressure me into quitting. Eventually they lost, settling out of court. My health suffered significantly, and probably permanently, and financially my costs were only partly covered (the lawyers for both sides did quite well). Somehow they have twisted this around in their minds that I'm somehow the wrong one, a bully (roflmao) etc. etc. That's despite the fact that when the bill came and they whined their own lawyer told them "Well you did something wrong and now you're paying the price."
Their anger is almost palpable. My take on it is that even though I had appealed to them on a regular basis, individually and as a group, to solve the problem without further conflict, that the facts showed they had repeatedly behaved atrociously and illegally, they are unwilling to think of themselves like that so some mental gymnastics occur so that they can believe they were in the right and I was just... evil? I just did what I thought my Dad would have done. As for the group they are continuing on with their old ways - just not trying to do it to me again. So far.
Standing up to bullies doesn't make them stop bullying, it just makes them pick an easier target.
Simplistic at best (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No (Score:3, Insightful)
You couldn't be more right. Often the teachers know the kids are being bullied, they just do nothing about it because the problem is not "necessary" to intervene in.
Re:Or could it be (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't mean to be offensive but this is why you are, and probably always will be, a beta.
Fear of pain is natural and healthy but continually putting off action due to fear is not healthy for you.
Obligatory:
"What do I care for your suffering? Pain, even agony, is no more than information before the senses, data fed to the computer of the mind. The lesson is simple: you have received the information, now act on it. Take control of the input and you shall become master of the output."
Human Hive
Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, “Essays on Mind and Matter”
Re:only fight back if you can survive (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:No (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately, I received the same punishment as the thug who hit me. This is not right.
Dude, I'm all for standing up for yourself, but you don't get away with beating someone into unconsciousness for just punching you once.
Re:Or could it be (Score:2, Insightful)
Trust me, not standing up gets you nowhere but more bullies. If they're smaller than you they're likely too chicken to actually start a fight. If they're bigger make sure you get them to start it, from that point on it's self defense. Because they were bigger than you you can now plausibly justify your actions following that by saying you felt you were in danger (within reason, don't kill them).
Fighting fair is for Hollywood, inflict as much pain as possible using any means possible that won't permanently maim or injure them. Make sure that they and anyone who witnesses or hears about the fight will think twice before going after you. The vast majority of bullies are cowards, they want easy targets, or at least targets that will fight fair so they can fight dirty and win. If they know you can at least somewhat handle yourself and have no mercy you will not be worth it, there's easier targets out there.
Re:Or could it be (Score:3, Insightful)
I think if you consider the data more closely, you'll see that the responses such the Mississippi civil rights murders were outliers rather than the norm. Don't get me wrong. There was widespread terrible, unacceptable violence. Further, racism was awful and its very good that it has become socially verboten. But most of the civil rights leaders lived to ripe old ages. The violence was not systematic nor was it approved of by the central government. Here, like in India, non-violence only works when used against the non-violent. Had the Federal government tacitly supported the violence used against the civil rights movement, as it had a generation earlier, then the civil rights movement would not have succeeded.
Re:only fight back if you can survive (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, what were you thinking?
Peace and Love and Dr. Spock (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good for you... (Score:3, Insightful)
Man, what a terrible, terrible example - supporting the US army is supporting standing up to injustice? That's EXACTLY the kind of falling in line with the strong over the weak I was talking about. Support the whistle-blowers in the military - those are the weak who speak truth to power and frequently get squashed for it, despite all the PR about not obeying unlawful orders. The regular troops? They are just the means of corporate american bullying of the rest of the world. They are the most powerful force of violence in the whole world bar none, in no way are they the weak standing up to bullies stronger than themselves.
Maybe I did pull it out of my ass, but you've just demonstrated the precise mindset that enables people to support bullies over the bullied and still feel like they are the good guys.
Re:only fight back if you can survive (Score:3, Insightful)
Kids today have no place to channel aggression. Thus we get things like columbine happening.
There were more school shootings in the 80s than there were in the 90s or 00s. School shootings have been on a decline since 1993 - the problem is 24 hour news networks sensationalizing the few shootings that did occur making them high profile. But the actual numbers have been going down for quite a few years now.
The whole "kids are more violent and less respectful now" theme has probably been going on for as long as there have been children.
Re:Or could it be (Score:1, Insightful)
Either you are mature or you are not. Parents have nothing to do with it. They can help a child mature earlier, but in the end, everyone has to do the deed on their own.
This is pure, ignorant, horseshit.
Lousy parenting can delay emotional development for decades. I know of parents who allowed zero independent thought in their child. They punished, severely, any manifestation of independent thought. At the same time they punished any display of their kid standing up to bullies. Even if they actually saw another kid pick a fight with their kid they would punish their own child for fighting back. In their mind their own kid was just supposed to stand there and take it. Those same parents would laugh at one of their kids picking on another and then punish the victim for fighting back. I've even known of parents who would delay punishment of their own child after the bully's parents said their kid got what he deserved and the victim shouldn't be punished until they had privacy. Then they would whale the tar out of their kid for defending themselves.
A kid who grows up in that environment will rarely stand up for himself and it's completely due to the kid's parents. Years of experience at home has taught him that whatever a bully does to him isn't going to equal the punishment he's going to get at home if his parents find out he fought back, and he has to live at home. He stuck there. He can't just leave there after a few hours.
You say you don't believe there are parents like that? I tell you I lived exactly what I wrote. What's worse, there are many more kids who have had to go through the same hell I did, as my experience is not all that unique. Most kids who go through what I did are usually far too full of shame to speak out, even as adults, as the amount of shame associated with this is something that, fortunately, most people will never be able to understand because they've never experienced it.
What utter bollocks (Score:4, Insightful)
What utter bollocks.
Non-violent means work better then violent means. The British didn't let Gandhi do his thing, they couldn't stop Gandhi without turning him into a martyr. Imprison him and protests will continue, he will gain more supporters. Kill him and he becomes a martyr, he will gain a lot more supporters.
Gandhi succeeded because he had the support of the people, not because of the British. All successful revolutions occur because the people supported it.
The Government of India turned out for the better, it took them half the time of China to reach the same (and in many ways superior) industrial capabilities. Compare this to violent revolutions that provided us with governments like, China, Soviet Russia, Iran, Burma, Taliban, most of whom are totalitarian and dirt poor.