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Music Idle Science

Noisebridge Attempts to Teach Science To Juggalos 198

Posted by samzenpus
from the so-that's-how-a-magnet-works dept.
Working on the assumption that the Insane Clown Posse's song Miracles was indeed a tribute to the wonder of nature and not the cleverest troll ever, some folks from the hackerspace Noisebridge decided to try and educate ICP fans. Surprisingly, most of the fans seemed to enjoy the science lesson, but representatives of the band didn't seem to think it was funny.

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Noisebridge Attempts to Teach Science To Juggalos

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  • by elrous0 (869638) * on Monday June 21, 2010 @02:44PM (#32644320)
    Someone should map out their career, using normal distribution. Here's a hint: = 1998.
    • by elrous0 (869638) *
      Well, I just learned that /. apparently can't display the symbol for mean (Mu).
    • I can't see the use for trying to educate them; for one, it's a waste of effort, for another, who will we get to work 3rd shift at Jack in the Box?
      Besides, they're just SO softcore. I mean, real sonsofbitches listen to Whitney Houston. The worst thing is trying to figure out which album I like more...
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Bah. More important than Jack in the Box, stupid people are here to amuse me. Leave them be, I say.
      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by spintriae (958955)

        I can't see the use for trying to educate them; for one, it's a waste of effort...

        Especially considering one of the lyrics to the song is "I don't wanna talk to no scientist; ya'll motherfuckers lying and getting me pissed." They know there are educated explanations for rainbows and making babies--they may even know what they are--but it's just anti-religious elitism worth ignoring. Let them have their magical magnets. Any fans that take it that seriously probably weren't going to go on to be the next Gauss anyway.

        • by Nerdfest (867930)
          Oh well, the world needs test subjects too.
        • by certron (57841)

          Funny enough, the 'random' quote at the bottom of this page of comments is this:

          There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. -- Wm. Shakespeare, "Hamlet"

          That is not to say that there is no wonder in the world, and that there are some things still unexplained, but to ignore an explanation when one exists is anti-science and tends toward willful, enthusiastic ignorance.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by sumdumass (711423)

          Lol.. I think you are missing the entire point of the song. It's not about any religion or elitism, it's about appreciating the things in life without needing to boil it down to some boring explanation. A rainbow or the birth of your child is a special moment that should be enjoyed and cherished, not some technical bullshit that takes any subliminal meaning away from it. It's about events that are a power greater then you- like 75,000 people in a room acting as one. the miracle isn't something any god did o

          • by h4rr4r (612664) on Monday June 21, 2010 @05:32PM (#32646366)

            If you can't have both you are defective. If the explanation of a rainbow makes it less good then you are the problem, not the man explaining it.

        • "I don't wanna talk to no scientist; ya'll motherfuckers lying and getting me pissed."
          "t's just anti-religious elitism"

          Since when were religion and technology the same? Last I checked, religion has been the largest hindrance on science...
        • It has nothing to do with religion, its about preferring to look at the world in an emotive rather than analytical way.

          This is not a new or uncommon point of view, and I do not see why its worth bothering about.

    • fuck statistics, how does that work?
      nice burn.
  • Representatives of bands around here tend to get lynched. Just use the word copyright. Comeon now, just one little word... it's all we need. I dare 'ya!

  • by Walter Wart (181556) * on Monday June 21, 2010 @02:52PM (#32644412) Homepage
    Making a silk purse out of a sow's ear
    Casting pearls before swine
    Never wrassle with a hog. You get muddy and the hog enjoys it

    But then I realize the comparisons are insulting to the pigs
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dAzED1 (33635)

      hogs don't actually enjoy it. I know it's just a saying, but it's a saying based on the false belief that hogs and pigs like to be dirty. When the only time you see a hog is in an unnatural environment...don't presume to know what it likes ;)

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by db32 (862117)

        Actually pigs do like rolling in the mud. Though it has to do with staying cool and keeping the sun off rather than liking the dirt.

        • by dAzED1 (33635) <`brianlamere' `at' `yahoo.com'> on Monday June 21, 2010 @05:59PM (#32646678) Homepage Journal

          funny that someone thought to down rate me, someone who has raised hogs and has seen many of them in the wild, as "overrated" - and then uprate you for just repeating the same thing someone else said.

          "X!"

          "No, X isn't actually true" - overrate -1

          "X!" - insightful +4!

          Hogs don't like being in mud in the first place. The only reason they are, is because they were *put there*. They are naturally a fairly clean animal; if well kept in a humane way, they'll always poop in one place, as far away from their food as they can. What 99.9999% of the population has seen, or heard described, is instead a nasty pen that the hog finds extremely depressing. They get into a cycle where they try to clean themselves off, but instead get dirtier. Sometimes, in a large open area, they'll do what elephants do - they'll cover themselves in a light layer of dirt/mud as a sort of natural sunscreen. They don't do this because they enjoy the process, they do it because they're in the sun and have no shade.

          Now, go find a feral hog and instead you'll find a relatively clean animal (sans the snout itself) that looks nothing like his hog-farm kept brothers. And that's the point - hog farms are un-natural, and hogs are known to be extremely depressed at hog farms. To presume that you know what someone "enjoys" because of their behavior when they're at a cruel place they obviously don't want to be at, is silly.

          Even sillier is presuming that hogs like it when their fleeing in terror at a rodeo during some sort of pig wrestling event. I suppose the bulls enjoy the rodeo too, and that's why they're so happy and pleased to give the rider such a fun time?

          • I believe the mud acts as a bug repellant as well.
            • by dAzED1 (33635)

              true, but that again means mud merely facilitates the mitigation of a problem, and not that rolling in mud is done for the purpose of mud-rolling in and of itself. Which you seem to be suggesting, but I'm just trying (for whatever reason) to make clear.

              • The long pig is generally a clean animal too. However, every once in a while on hot summer days long pig young will find a pit of mud to enjoy. They have been known to make structures out of the mud. The adult of the species will indulge occasionally as well (generally only wading through it or squeezing it through the digits of their fore-paws). However small social groups of adult or adolescent long pig will actually play in the mud if one of their number accidentally falls in. This behaviour is more
          • by Alsee (515537)

            hogs are known to be extremely depressed at hog farms.

            That's why I feed them Prozac everyday.

            It's also why I came up with the saying "A BLT a day keeps the psychiatrist away".

            -

      • I raised hogs as a kid. Both in a "regular" sty and in a no-mud sty with grates for waste elimination and misters for cooling.

        It's not a scientific observation, but I felt like the satisfaction hogs felt rolling in the mud was palpable -- and only matched by the satisfaction they seemed to take in rubbing up against posts to scratch itches.

        FWIW, the hogs in the no-mud enclosures were content to lie next to the misters (in shade, of course), but they did not radiate contentment the way the pigs that rol
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by dAzED1 (33635)

          you're mentioning something that you're then not even considering; there's another factor in play here. Remember, correlation does not equal causation ;)

          The hogs that had mud to roll around in were then able to move about within their pen without being affected much by the sun. They'd merely need to roll around in the mud again once they started getting hot.

          The other hogs had to sit in one particular area, not moving around, otherwise they got hot.

          It's the ability to be mobile that matters in this case.

          • PS - if you had any hogs at all that "radiate[d] contentment" then wow - that's major, considering the extreme prevalence of depression among swine at farms.

            We weren't a swine farm, we were a small farm with a couple dozen sheep, a few goats, up to a dozen hogs at times, a mess of chickens, and random other animals when someone wanted to (geese, emus, llamas, etc). The hog enclosures were pretty large, included about an acre of woods for them to root around in... I think that, and the attention they got fr

      • by Larryish (1215510)

        A safer way to put it is like so:

        Never try to teach a pig to sing. It is a waste of time, and it annoys the pig.

  • I prefer "chocolate rain" over this amateur crap any day.
    Yes.
    I do.

  • Jobs... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Fucking Jobs, how do they work?
  • It's not a Miracle?
    • by bonch (38532)

      Surprisingly, most of the fans seemed to enjoy the science lesson, but representatives of the band didn't seem to think it was funny.

      What's surprising about that? ICP is completely tongue-in-cheek. They're the KISS of rap. Almost all their lyrics are totally facetious, and I've never really gotten the blind hatred toward them (which they love and use for marketing, by the way).

      One of the members said this video was intentional and that they have a movie coming out just in time. I think they know exactly wha

  • Snarkified (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cosm (1072588) <(moc.liamg) (ta) (3msoceht)> on Monday June 21, 2010 @03:15PM (#32644688)
    I think the reason Miracles was so infamous is due to a couple factors, as follows,

    A. Many people hate ICP.
    B. Many people are on the internet.
    C. ICP made a video metaphorically referring to some phenomenal (yet understandable) facts of nature (albeit explainable, to an extent) as miracles.
    D. Said intertards took them literally, espousing their hate on a fantastical new platform.
    E. Or it was an epic trolling, and 2,000,000+ got got.

    Point to take away: people like to criticize, act snarky, and show disdain towards those they dislike. ICP is no different. The real miracle is that 2,000,000 cumulatively made fun of about an ICP video.

    And as an aside, I highly doubt many of the critics of that video on the net could fully understand electromagnetism, such as the fact that relativistic transformations of transverse EM waves can swap the E & M field, for they are two sides of the same coin depending on the Lorenz transformation, or perhaps give a full analysis of Lenz's law and its implications.
    • There's already backlash against ICP backlash? Jesus Christ, somebody needs to start a backlash monitoring service.

      When backlash against the backlash against ICP backlash starts, please let me know I think that's probably when I'll jump in.

    • Re:Snarkified (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Lord Ender (156273) on Monday June 21, 2010 @03:34PM (#32644956) Homepage

      Just because we have the vocabulary to describe something does not mean we "understand" it.

      • That vocabulary we have to describe something (especially the "how" of something) means different things to different people. To those who do understand the vocabulary, the words have real meaning and do impart understanding. To others, the words are simply labels, or even worse -- an avenue of misunderstanding.

        This is why words are both powerful and dangerous.
      • Just because pop sci uses a common vocabulary to describe the actual science (which requires heavy math to truly "understand") doesn't mean that that vocabulary is the entirety of the scientific gestalt. In fact, it is merely the tip of the iceberg. Of course, there are fields where this is actually the case (the pop sci version is approximately equal to the actual version). The hard sciences (called "hard" for that very reason) are definitely not like that. This is what makes some online boards so amusing

        • I think the point is that the fundamental forces are getting to the point in physics where things can't necessarily entirely be explained in terms of simpler phenomenon.

          Also, look up what "begs the question" means.

          • Also, look up what "begs the question" means.

            My bad. That's obviously not the correct usage.

            I think the point is that the fundamental forces are getting to the point in physics where things can't necessarily entirely be explained in terms of simpler phenomenon.

            Still far from that point. As I said, give it time. And anyway, that's a digression. The point was simply to be more aware of what the word "understanding" means in this context before saying that we don't have a "true understanding" of something. What would qualify as true understanding anyway? In other words (and the following is the only thing I need have written), if you think that explanation A doesn't give a "true understanding" of phenomenon X, what qual

            • Electromagnetism is extremely well-described. There certainly unanswered questions about it and other fundamental forces, though. Which means the definition of the term "understand" starts to matter.

      • Small addendum:

        This by the way is why it is somewhat meaningless to refer to "science" when praising or critiquing it. It's like referring to "school" when discussing curricular issues - there are different grades and different levels of competence even within the same grade.
      • by afxgrin (208686)

        Anyone that listens to recorded music, including ICP fans, depend on people who understand magnets.

        Now magnetic monopoles ... that's a whole different game.

        I'm curious as to what triggered this attack on scientists. Something has to be up... I'm kind of surprised ICP is lashing out like this. I'm thinking it's from the shots scientists have been taking on their belief of God.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by DJLuc1d (1010987)

      And as an aside, I highly doubt many of the critics of that video on the net could fully understand electromagnetism, such as the fact that relativistic transformations of transverse EM waves can swap the E & M field, for they are two sides of the same coin depending on the Lorenz transformation, or perhaps give a full analysis of Lenz's law and its implications.

      While that might be true there is this thing called 'google' and I'm told it can help you find information, rather than be content in releasing a song where you espouse idiocy and insult the very people who uncovered the answer to your query. I believe 'Violent murder-dick' or whatever his name is accused 'scientists' of some sort of deception, rather than 'googling magnets'

    • Re:Snarkified (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nametaken (610866) * on Monday June 21, 2010 @04:14PM (#32645372)

      The noise over Miracles wasn't about internet trolls getting uppity just for fun (though it is fun). These guys didn't say, "hey these things are amazing" when they called them miracles. They suggested that these various natural things were no less than god's direct intervention in the physical world and implied that they couldn't be satisfactorily explained by science. Then they said they don't want to hear from any scientists about any of these subjects because, "[those] motherfuckers lyin'". Yeah, scientists of the world are part of a giant conspiracy to lie about where rainbows come from... fuckwits.

      That's not simple awe for amazing things, that's straight-up mental retardation painted in makeup to match. Oh and I almost forgot... yes, they're some of the shittiest rappers in history.

      But yes, this assumes it wasn't an intentional showboat of unbelievable stupidity on their part to get some attention for careers that went down the toilet over 10 years ago. If that's the case, then shame on them for misleading the young trash of America down the science-hater path so they can desperately try to make their next mortgage payment.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by sumdumass (711423)

        Well, as long as your attempting to quote the l;lyrics to prove your point, lets put some more in there to make that point valid.

        Lets see, the song starts off with :If magic is all we've ever know
        Then it's easy to miss what really goes on

        SO what do you suppose that means and how does it put the rest of the song- more specifically your point into context?

        But wait, the song goes on and says But I've seen miracles in every way
        And I see miracles everyday;
        It lists some shit perceived as miracles and in that list

      • by Mechanik (104328)

        The noise over Miracles wasn't about internet trolls getting uppity just for fun (though it is fun). These guys didn't say, "hey these things are amazing" when they called them miracles. They suggested that these various natural things were no less than god's direct intervention in the physical world and implied that they couldn't be satisfactorily explained by science. Then they said they don't want to hear from any scientists about any of these subjects because, "[those] motherfuckers lyin'". Yeah, scient

      • by RichiH (749257)

        And in other songs, they directly refer to there being a total of six ICP albums(called cards/jokers), after which the world ends.

        One album (I think it was #4 or #5) even has artwork depicting the coming of the six album/card.

        While you interpret that literally and work up another nerd rage, I suggest listen to all their lyrics, some of which are quite direct and biting social commentaries.

        The moral of the story? People don't always mean what they say.

        In any case, this has motivated me to dig up my old ICP C

        • by RichiH (749257)

          The other moral? Don't rewrite your initial comment extensively, especially now that Slashcode has once again activated the 'tiny text input field' feature in the text mode of /. which makes reading more than half a sentence at once ackward.

          If you do, grammar will suffer and you look like a moron.

          OTOH, it's fun to appear as one in the context of this discussion :)

  • Some are jugaloos...

    Some are jugalettes...

    Some are creationists.

    --
    BMO

  • ICP (Score:4, Insightful)

    by IMightB (533307) on Monday June 21, 2010 @03:16PM (#32644706) Journal

    Is a band for idiots, morons and the wilfully ignorant. I met Violent J at a Station promo back ~95/96 in the Toledo area. Just a complete dick. Their music is crap. Their fans are worse. They are the only band that would be known in an Idiocracy style world.

  • Ignorance. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Xoltri (1052470) on Monday June 21, 2010 @03:17PM (#32644720)
    How ignorant to you have to be to be proud of your ignorance?
  • Tactical Mistake (Score:3, Informative)

    by ianm.phil (1140173) on Monday June 21, 2010 @03:17PM (#32644732)

    I think this group should skip trying to teach them science, it's a lost cause, and instead provide instruction on birth control and distribute free condoms. Only you can help control the Juggalo population!

  • I'm sorry but no (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JoshuaZ (1134087) on Monday June 21, 2010 @03:27PM (#32644856) Homepage
    The original song has the lyrics:

    Fucking magnets, how do they work? And I don't wanna talk to a scientist Y'all motherfuckers lying, and getting me pissed

    That's unambiguously anti-science. Any attempt to say they weren't being literal is simply stupid. Insane Clown Posse is stupid and supports willful ignorance. Pretending otherwise to try to get a small amount of science education done might help a tiny bit but at the end of the day, let's not kid ourselves about what this crap band stands for. The fact that when the band found out about this event they tried to actively prevent it shows what they really care about. These are the worst sort of ignorant fucktards possible, the sort of ignorant fucktards who not only take pride in their own ignorance but actively prevent other people from trying to educate. The fact that then had their security goons try to take away the camera is simply one more aspect of how absolutely despicable ICP is.

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by Anachragnome (1008495)

      "The original song has the lyrics:

      Fucking magnets, how do they work? And I don't wanna talk to a scientist Y'all motherfuckers lying, and getting me pissed

      That's unambiguously anti-science."

      I agree, but to further your point I would also add that the entire Juggalo "movement" (if you could call it that) is really a not-too-subtle attempt to groom the next generation of gullible, ill-informed, bigoted and unnecessarily prejudicial right-wing, religious conservative voters--voters incapable of smelling a rat

    • by RichiH (749257)

      I have not listened to anything by ICP for years so dunno about current songs, but I distinctly remember several extremely well done social commentaries.

      One common theme back then, and I presume today, was that they made fun of people by stating stuff as those people would state them. Guess you fell for that :)

      Not knowing any other person who even heard of ICP (I live in Europe) I can't comment on how their fans might interpret these lyrics, though.

      • by JoshuaZ (1134087)
        Given that they then kicked out the science educators and bragged about it on their twitter feed (see remark below), I'm pretty sure that this wasn't satire on their part.
        • by RichiH (749257)

          Maybe.

          Otoh, afaik the context of said educators being thrown out was a concert. I can see why they would not want anyone trying to teach stuff during one of those.

  • by axl917 (1542205) <axl@mail.plymouth.edu> on Monday June 21, 2010 @03:38PM (#32645016)

    but were afraid to ask can be found at ED; http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Juggalo [encycloped...matica.com]

    • by steelfood (895457)

      A little NSFW tag would've helped. There's no nudity, but there is racist content in there that might not sit well with passersby.

  • by jollyreaper (513215) on Monday June 21, 2010 @03:41PM (#32645046)

    Someone asked me if I had ICP. I said only if it's cold out.

  • by bugs2squash (1132591) on Monday June 21, 2010 @04:17PM (#32645398)
    I mean I gather it has something to do with quantum spin and relativity and symmetry breaking and virtual gauge boson force-carriers. But I'm somewhat uncertain on the details (and I don't mean in a Heisenberg way). Perhaps the band is just voicing their frustration that there seem to be so few entry level texts that cover the subject in lay terms.
  • ...music for idiots, by idiots.

  • Am I the only one who read this headline as a racist slur?
  • Further update (Score:3, Insightful)

    by JoshuaZ (1134087) on Monday June 21, 2010 @04:53PM (#32645814) Homepage
    If there were any doubts about ICP's attitude on this matter, one of the ICP members brags about how they had their security get rid of the scientists on their twitter feed http://twitter.com/bigviolentj/status/15541954268 [twitter.com]

    Corp, Dougie & Sugar Slam ran those scientist haters off and we had a fuckin' amazing ass concert. 2500 Los rocked the building's foundation

    In almost any other context I would have thought that the phrase "scientist haters" would mean people who hate scientists, not scientists who are haters. Ah well.

  • ..did anyone ever figure out how magnets work? im losing sleep over this one.
  • Crayons are magic.
    All those fuckin' colors.
    How do they work?
    And don' be givin' me any
    of that lyin' science shit.

    -

I use technology in order to hate it more properly. -- Nam June Paik

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