DSL Installation Fail 371
An anonymous reader writes "Here's an example of fine Qwest workmanship. In our business park, they just installed a DSL connection for our neighbors, for which we share an exterior utility space. They left: a DSL modem stuffed in a cardboard box, wrapped in a Wal-Mart bag, sitting outside in what will be below-zero (F) temps, on top of a bank of ten natural gas meters in some of the driest air of the year. They also left it plugged into an exposed exterior power outlet above a snowbank, with network cables running around the building, through snowbanks, coupled and protected by zip-lock baggies, and into our neighbors office. Not to mention the hack-job of patching the phone cable directly into the demarcation box. And if you're wondering — I was told upon calling them that this is not their problem, and I need to contact my primary phone service provider."
Horatio Caine says (Score:5, Funny)
Looks like Qwest thought they had this job *sunglasses* in the bag.
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
CORRECTION (Score:5, Interesting)
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It's Idle, what did you expect?
Re:Horatio Caine says (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell them your next call will be to the bombsquad (Score:5, Interesting)
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This is a bad idea (Score:5, Informative)
If you were dealing with some local company or something, this might be ok to give them one more chance to 'make it right.' However, you are dealing with a big corp. The best thing to do, to avoid unforeseen consequences, is to call the fire marshal and inquire as to who is actually responsible if there is a situation like yours (the installer or the building owner). If it is the installer, then you immediately report the situation and get an official record of it on a government piece of paper. You then take that report and fax it to them while on the phone with their secretary and tell them they need to fix it, as the fire department has documented the faulty job and you aren't sure if they are being investigated . . .but you have confirmed with the fire marshal that they would be the ones found liable in case fault is found in the installation job.
Re:This is a bad idea (Score:5, Interesting)
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...and 1a) that they'd post about it in a public forum, like Slashdot? :D
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No, you're not usually dealing with a big company. You're probably dealing with a small sub-contractor who gets paid to do the install. Once he knows the service is up he has no responsibility for it. It may come
back to bite him only if the customer tracks him down. I had this happen with a Large Satellite TV company recently. I switched from the "other" Large Satellite TV company and in three months I've had 4 service calls, the most recent being today. Why? The original installation. To install th
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Nope, it wasn't really their direct fault. It was their subcontractors. Ultimately they took responsibility but it was another subcontractor who had to come out and fix it. While anybody can be guilty of hiring a dumbass, their process should be to weed out those individuals who are more adept at the housekeeping or food service industries.
Unfortunately the trend is to outsource as much as possible and when you do that you lose quality. In my case when the original dumbass was doing the install he even
Re:This is a bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Then name the contractor or the sub.
A lot of competent electrical/handyman types are looking for work now. Punish the bad ones so the good ones can get their foot in the door and get back on their feet.
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The best thing to do, to avoid unforeseen consequences, is to call the fire marshal and inquire as to who is actually responsible if there is a situation like yours (the installer or the building owner).
Neither, I suspect. The most likely candidate would be the tenant. If they have permission from the owner to perform the installation work, that permission is likely to specify that they are responsible for ensuring all safety rules are followed. If they don't have permission, then while technically it would be the owner's responsibility, the owner could then sue them for performing unauthorized modifications to his property and reclaim any damages that were in consequence of that.
IANAL, nor am I an expe
It's got a battery... and wires... (Score:2, Funny)
I take it this wasn't in Boston, or they'd have shut the entire city down, given that it has wires coming out of it. If there was a Mooninite on it, they'd probably hunker down for an invasion....
Call the Fire Marshal (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. Call the Fire Marshal, tell them this is what Qwest did as electrical/phone work, and ask if it meets safety standards. Try to control your laughter as you ask.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
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ACMA would fine the installer $10k on the spot for that in Australia. Sadly there are far to many people who do dodgy installs like this all over the world. :
Wonder how long it will take someone to 'recycle' the spare copper in the wires.
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My neighbour had their phone line coming out of the pit, over about a metre of council land, up a retaining wall, across the front garden and snaked into their house. I don't know if it was Telstra or Dodgy Bros, but it was like that for over a year. Of course, if they had DSL the modem would be inside the house, not outside! I wonder what would have happened if a mower had've gone over it?
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Wouldn't work. They would just remove their equipment. As for lack of service, pretty much every ISP's contracts state that there is no guarantee on uptime. You MIGHT be able to get a month free out of the deal.
Re:Call the Fire Marshal (Score:4, Interesting)
I would even wager that when a higher tier customer support rep is threatened with a lawsuit over faulty electrical work, they would just send a guy out to redo it.
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Sadly, cable installers fall under low-voltage code and don't need to be licensed anything in most jurisdictions. That there's an AC box out in the snow, however, crosses the line, likely. Take a phone pic of it and email it to press@qwest.com. A truck ought to roll on that one.
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RTFS:
a DSL modem stuffed in a cardboard box, wrapped in a Wal-Mart bag, sitting outside in what will be below-zero (F) temps, on top of a bank of ten natural gas meters in some of the driest air of the year.
Obvious fire hazard, given the proximity to a starter (cardboard and plastic), flammable material (gas) and potential for sparking from anything leaking through the Walmart bag.
They also left it plugged into an exposed exterior power outlet above a snowbank
Another obvious fire hazard.
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Not that I'm letting the installers off the hook or anything.
. o O { What if the investigators of the Philadelphia explosion find out it was caused by a router?! }
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Qwest: Ride the shock front?
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When did the USPS start hooking up telco equipment upon delivery!?
Re:Call the Fire Marshal (Score:5, Funny)
Hell, Slashdot editors don't screen summaries!
Right On... (Score:5, Funny)
I often call to complain that my neighbor's DSL isn't set up correctly...oh, wait.
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But then what kind of asshole (Score:2, Funny)
Calls to have their DSL installed in the middle of a snowy winter?
ASSHOLES CUSTOMERS, that's who. /blame game.
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:But then what kind of asshole calls to have their DSL installed in the middle of a snowy winter?
WTF? Would you rather have no internet until the spring thaw? If you offer a service that is "24 hour" then you have to support it in all kinds of weather. That is not being an asshole but being a customer.
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YEAH!!1! Those fuckers probably want a phone line, cable TV, gas, electricity and mail service too! Why do people move in the winter? Shit, they're lucky to get DSL in the first place! Why can't people just stay where they are for the rest of their lives? This is just ridiculous. If the Tea Party were in power, this would be done RIGHT the first time!
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Hah! The Tea Party wants less government interference, not more. They would never agree to a public-owned wire service. Instead, they would eliminate the limits on the number of services with access to public rights of way. Thus, you would have eighteen different companies digging up your streets to run their own lines. Because they would not be required by law to repave the street, the streets would gradually be replaced by a patchwork of heavy steel plates covering the open trenches below. Because t
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They would never agree to a public-owned wire service. Instead, they would eliminate the limits on the number of services with access to public rights of way. Thus, you would have eighteen different companies digging up your streets to run their own lines.
No; no, you would not. That makes absolutely no sense.
Even now, you can lease line from other companies. Why would that not continue? In fact, it would likely accelerate: you might even have municipalities lay the fabric themselves and lease it to customers (to the benefit of the city/muni).
Libertarians aren't against all government. Most of the ones I know are very much for government - just not federal and/or state government of excessive reach and application, the benefit of which largely goes to those i
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There has to be some middle ground though. I resent the fact that only one of a particular kind of cable can be run, what that does is guarantee a monopoly over the specific type of services that use that kind of cable. Even a choice two DSL providers is better than just one.
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Re:But then what kind of asshole (Score:4, Insightful)
Uh huh. Just like telephone dereguation brought me dozens of companies for my landline, and cable TV deregulation brought me dozens of companies competing to offer me cable TV.
Chortle. Guffaw.
Re:But then what kind of asshole (Score:4, Insightful)
No, not really. The problem is that there are some areas of commerce that naturally trend towards monopolies, and no amount of deregulation can ever prevent them from degrading into a monopoly. Therefore, the only options are either harsh government regulation to prevent the monopoly from abusing its monopoly status or government ownership of that area of commerce.
I've seen places where the government allowed a second cable company to move in. Invariably, the incumbent cable company, having the advantage of owning all of their infrastructure free and clear, cuts their previously exorbitant rates dramatically to undercut or match the cheaper rates offered by the newcomer. Competition thrives and everyone is happy with their lower rates... until two years later when the new cable company is still operating hopelessly in the red (despite raising rates once or twice) and is forced to cease operation, whereupon it sells its brand new lines, antenna tower, and office space to the incumbent cable company, and exits the market. On the plus side, everyone in those towns now have newer, higher quality coax with newer amplifiers, etc., but there's still no competition in any of those towns, and their cable rates skyrocketed almost immediately after the exit of the competitors.
As for the S&L debacle, I wouldn't say regulation was "uneven", though. That implies that if you just removed a whole lot more regulations, we'd be in better shape. In reality, they merely removed the wrong regulations. Unfortunately, there really aren't a lot of regulations that are safe to remove.
In general, regulations are put in place to prevent abuses that are already happening, so removal of any of those regulations almost invariably leads to bad things except when those regulations truly are no longer relevant due to some significant change in the landscape (e.g. laws about texting while driving will become irrelevant when cars drive themselves; if there were laws requiring cellular carriers to lease access to their towers, they became irrelevant now that we are no longer limited to one A and one B analog carrier in any given area; etc.).
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Wouldn't the Tea Party version be: your street isn't profitable enough for anyone to run a line to because too few people live on the street due to the might-as-well-not-exist road conditions?
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Do you want installers to be unemployed 1/4 of the year?
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No.
I'd send them to south america.
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Seems like qwest technicians are too busy browsing slashdot to do their job right. There is absolutely no excuse for this, no matter how "assholish" the customer. Just looks bad on you the technician anyways.
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Calls to have their DSL installed in the middle of a snowy winter?
ASSHOLES CUSTOMERS, that's who. /blame game.
Sorry, but Construction is done year round. The fact they didn't run any PVC between the boxes and then brought out an entire set of enclosures to keep the weather from creating further damage, fire risk, etc., not to mention running a separate power conduit to expand the capacity is completely unprofessional. Furthermore, if the Building Management works with Qwest I'm sure they can provide a point of access to their wiring plan and there should be no wiring exposed. It's clear the Gas company had a tigh
Responding professionally to bad customer requests (Score:2)
Maybe the neighbor did request the installation some time before the snowstorm started, or maybe not, or maybe this was a repair job because their service had died during the snowstorm. If the technician didn't want to do the job until the weather improves, he could either be professional about it and say "sorry, got to reschedule, weather's too bad for a new install", or at least be unprofessional in some reasonably professional way, like claiming "customer wasn't home" or "couldn't get access" or somethi
Re:Responding professionally to bad customer reque (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Responding professionally to bad customer reque (Score:5, Interesting)
Or he could do like I do every single day, and just do the job, and do the job right.
Unfortunately at this point the only picture to reference is the one in the slashdot summary as the original has been removed, however based on the summary description and picture, I just can't even imagine what they were thinking. I have seen some pretty creative installs though, and the usual culprit is contractors who are paid by the hour instead of by the job, if they can save 10 seconds they will, no matter what it does to the quality of the job. And management usually loves them for it, because their numbers are good... unless you include the number of repairs they cause...
I install phone, internet, and TV, including ADSL, Fibre Optics, and Satellite services. I do it in Canada, and I do it year round. Weather is not a valid excuse. I have installed satellite dishes in blizzards at -25c, I have terminated fibre optics when I couldn't feel my fingers, and couldn't keep the snow out of the mechanical splicer, and I have terminated aerial service drops at the top of a pole while soaked to the bone and feeling the line voltage through my soaked gloves, and I have NEVER cancelled or rescheduled a job due to weather.
Weather is part of the job, if you don't want to work outside in whatever the weather happens to be, you don't work as a telecommunication technician doing residential and small business installs and repairs. It's pretty much that simple.
That said, I also get to work outdoors in the sunshine in the summer, I have worked on connection boxes on the side of the road not 5 meters away from a moose with 2 calves, and I have worked on rooftops and at pole-tops with views you could sell, and I get amazing variety and no managers watching over my shoulder, I never want to work a desk job again.
They are doing it wrong... (Score:5, Funny)
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Don't worry, they're coming back tomorrow with some power tools to screw the box thingy into those funny looking pipes it's sitting on...
For comcast that a ok job but for dsl / phone they (Score:2)
For comcast that a ok job but for dsl / phone they can do much better.
Curious to find out (Score:2)
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Why submit anonymously? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Institute for the promotion of computational science, 1609 Golden Aspen Drive, Suite 101. Ames, IA 50010
Sort of sounds like a place that a /. reader might work at.
Let's hope there isn't a rash of pizza deliveries.
Secure (Score:4, Funny)
Well at least if you lock yourself out of the office you have open ports at the gas meter to hook up to.
Joke? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, I call bullshit.
Bullshit (Score:2)
probably but who knows (Score:2)
I had standing orders that no qwest people were allowed into our denver branch without somebody calling me. and they were NEVER allowed to touch anything without somebody watching them. every time they came into the building we'd lose something, most of the time it was our internet due to their horrendous wiring.
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I'm sorry, but I believe it (except the connection on the ground). Looking at the photos I think I might be in the same Business park as the poster.
I had to fight with Qwest to get DSL because they said it was a fiber only market.....except there is no fiber anywhere in that part of town. After the order went through, it took them 10 days to get a tech to come out an install it. The tech terminated the pair at the DMARC then didn't tag it. I had to have another tech come out and tag it. Then to make th
Re:Joke? (Score:4, Informative)
This looks like an install done by someone who knows enough about the basics of installing DSL, but just wanted to get the fuck out of there. I completely believe this because I've seen similar installs.
I once went to someone's house late at night for a trouble call (I'm a cable technician). All of the cable lines at this house were ran on the outside, just laying on the ground, not even close to the house. Even their splitters were just laying in the dirt. Water had gotten into everything and killed their connection.
We later looked into this contractor's other jobs and found similar results, so we back-billed him for all the installations. Turns out this guy was just trying to do as many installs as possible, because he was getting paid by the install. Happens more than you'd think. I'd say this DSL installer spent a grand total of 20 minutes installing this, whereas a quality install could take half the day. Multiply that by $50 an install...
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Could be he possesses skills, but is deficient in the 'giving a shit' category. In other words, could be he took the quickest route that got boobies flowing through the intertubes.
I could also see the owner hacking it together and totally blaming it on somebody else.
Not Suprised (Score:5, Insightful)
Note: I'm a low-voltage tech.
This kind of stuff doesn't suprise me. It's the nature of the industry. People don't want to pay $200 for a decent quality install, so a lot of the independent guys try to lowball where they can. Contractor companies will hire anyone to do the work, and they'll be lucky if they get a half a week of training. Most ISP's contract out their installs to these companies. (Mine is the exception to that fortunately.) This installer was probably never trained on this stuff, and his employer probably expected him to do it anyways or they wont use him anymore.
Quest probably leases the lines and contracts the installations through AT&T, who then contracts the installs through someone else. (Can't confirm this though.) That's why Quest told the customer to call their "primary phone service provider", although I think Quest should have done this work for them.
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"THOUSANDS of Telstra customers are putting up with crude, temporary phone connections with cables held together by tape and plastic bags and strung along fences, across lawns and through trees. In many cases the unsightly - even dangerous - cables are left in place for months and even years, despite repeated pleas to finish the job by burying them."
Denver resident here ... (Score:3)
This is pretty much what you expect with QWest.
In fact ... they must have gotten the good installer given the plastic bag.
Morons happen... (Score:5, Funny)
Have some fun with it (Score:5, Funny)
Put on gloves and unplug one of the cables. Wait for them to send some one out to "repair it". Call the police and report that a suspicious person is attaching a package with wires to the gas lines.
They have posts on really bad installs here. (Score:2)
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31711 [mikrotik.com]
Most of these are remote hotspots to bounce a wireless signal accross Europe, but even in the middle of nowhere there should be standards.
Call the phone service, huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
You're trying to help them out and they tell you to call someone else. I guess you did your job.
I saw a fire hydrant spewing water once, called the fire department, they said, "call the water department." I said, "OK." Hung up and didn't think about it again. Until now, I guess.
Wouldn't surprise me... (Score:2)
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"Some kids stole it" (Score:4, Insightful)
Just call Qwest and let them know you just saw some kids or crackhead steal it.
I work for a telco... (Score:5, Interesting)
Thanks for documenting this (Score:5, Interesting)
Thanks for documenting this. I had a similar experience with cable a few years ago and I regret I didn't document it at the time. In my case we were renting a house next to a vacant lot, and on the other side of the lot was the curbside cable box that the installer had decided to use.
They ran the cable straight across the vacant lot in the grass and into one of our ventilation conduits to get under the house. Then, one day the cable stopped working. I could see that they were starting to develop the lot next door and a tractor had run across the cable laying on the ground. I called the provider, they came out and strung another cable across the lot, on the ground.
This was a regular occurrence in the weeks ahead. Once or twice a week I'd call that the cable was broken again, and someone would come out and patch it and drop it back in the dirt.
Then one day it stopped working again and I called again and then watched what the guy would do when he came out. They had poured concrete next door, and the cable now went from the box down into a fresh sidewalk never to emerge on the other side.
He scratched his head on that one, and just when I thought he was going to stretch a replacement cable across the new driveway, he instead went to the other side of my house, connected a new cable to the cable box over there, stretched it across part of my neighbor's lawn, diagonally across my lawn, and back through a different vent to the underside of the house, where he patched it in.
I called and told the cable company about this, that I had to disconnect the cable in order for either me or my neighbor to mow the lawn, but they said there was "nothing they could do". They said it often, and eventually, when I got on their nerves, they said it at high volume.
So we canceled the cable. I disconnected it on my side and wrapped the excess around the box. To this day I regret not documenting the experience through photos.
Later we had DSL and then fiber optic service, which were quite satisfactory. I never got an indoor DSL box installed outdoors, but they did run the line along the ground on the side of the house before punching into the bedroom I was using as an office. I didn't notice it at the time, but did notice that the network failed about a month after the air conditioner was installed. The installers had poured a slab of concrete on the side of the house for the air conditioning unit and -- you guessed it -- the cable was now part of the slab. I'm surprised it worked for as long as it did.
When we had fiber installed, I had them run it to the corner of the house closest to the curbside box (which fortunately was on my property) made sure they TRENCHED it this time, had them mount the fiber modem and router on the inside wall of the garage, and then did the rest of the network myself. So far flawless.
What I learned from this is to be sure to meet the installer outside, be sure he's called the utilities and knows where to dig, be sure he intends to trench the cables he needs to run to the house, and make sure he intends to run all other cables either along the walls well above ground level, through the basement, or through the attic.
And if they don't do these things, call the salescreature back and cancel the service. You can do that within 30 days, even if you signed a multi-year contract. By telling them you're going to cancel up front and why, you are then in a position to negotiate from strength. But if they don't fix it in a week or so, cancel in earnest and look for another provider.
Under no circumstances should an installer be allowed to work unsupervised.
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They ran the cable straight across the vacant lot in the grass and into one of our ventilation conduits to get under the house. Then, one day the cable stopped working. I could see that they were starting to develop the lot next door and a tractor had run across the cable laying on the ground. I called the provider, they came out and strung another cable across the lot, on the ground.
Interesting story, I have been battling something similar with Comcast. My neighbor had trouble with his cable and they ins
A submission to "thereifixedit.com" (Score:2)
Looks like something you would see on the repair blog "thereifixedit.com:
Improvised heatsink [wordpress.com]
Former Qwest (Score:3)
I worked at Qwest for ten years and because they contract independent techs in a lot of the CLEC regions (where they're not the incumbent carrier), and based on my own experience years ago fielding provisioning/repair calls, what you describe does not particularly surprise me.
I'm checking with my former manager in the IPNOC to see who you might escalate this issue to directly. I'll get back to you if they can give me someone.
NOT QWEST AFTER ALL (Score:5, Informative)
Re:NOT QWEST AFTER ALL (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's an example of fine Slashdot submissionship. In the idle section, they just submitted a picture for our readers. They left an anonymous submission that links to a picasa album displaying their own name , blamed the entirely wrong people, failed to identify the correct people despite apparently knowing who they are, and generally wasted everyone's time with a crap story. And if you're wondering — ah fuck it, thats as far as I can go with this.
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After slandering Quest on the front page of one of the largest tech blogs in the world, I think you might want to contact slashdot to get a correction up in the summary as soon as possible, not just a small notice far down on the blog page.
Just my 2c...
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(Yes, it's likely seen as libel and not slander, despite the informal tone of blogs)
No, genuinely believing something to be true doesn't necessarily protect you from a defamation lawsuit, if I understand this right. If the accuser can show that you didn't make adequate research before publishing, you can still lose.
And in this case, the person claims to be an information security expert, and the bar for "adequate research" is likely higher as a result.
Then again, IANAL, but my recommendation to Mr. Blakely
Qwest (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Qwest (Score:4, Informative)
It wasn't Qwest (Score:3)
If you check the website linked to in the article, they're now hosting an image that says: "Turns out this wasn't Qwest after all, but another (to remain nameless) ISP in our area. My apologies to Qwest for the mistake." Oops.
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Depends on if you work for an ISP or for a contractor company. An ISP, you'd make a little more starting out. A contractor company, you'd make enough, but you wouldn't have benefits and you'd pay your own taxes, so, meh.
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I had Qwest for a few years with constant intermittent connections. This was almost certainly due to bad wiring in my apartment, but it's relevant because I called Qwest customer service at least 10 times, and had technicians come once or twice (never got it fixed or even figured out what was wrong before I moved). The technicians were good, like you say. But the customer service people are almost all horrible. They go through certain steps with you regardless of your previous experience... "yes, I tried po
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I had Qwest with MSN back in 2003, and their DNS was constantly going down. They tried to blame it on me for running Linux.
I changed to Cox cable after I left that apartment, and never had such ridiculous problems again.
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I had Qwest technicians on-site last October to get DSL working. They were knowledgeable and completely professional; the work was first rate. I don't believe this story is accurate. The "contact my primary phone service provider" bit probably indicates that some third party is involved and the submitter is falsely attributing this cockup to Qwest.
Oh, and my DSL performance is excellent as well. If you have the choice between Qwest and Comcast, get the former.
I'm not buying it either. Must be some kind of a joke.. .
Re:Eh? (Score:5, Funny)
I had the same work done last week and it cam e out great.
Except for the spurious spaces it inserts into your posts once in a while. :-)
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Thirded. Srsly. Although the guy who submitted this is new to spamming slashdot, doesn't he know you're supposed to link to your google ad filled blog?
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
I wouldn't immediately dismiss it.
I worked for an ISP for a while. And while our techies were at least halfway decent and didn't cause too many problems, the installations we outsourced to various companies were sometimes rather crude hacks. They got paid by the installation, so anything that required more than a "go in, assemble, turn on, go" would cut into their profits. And that in turn led them to quite odd practices sometimes, where cables were thrown across rooms because the installing technician didn't have enough cable with him at that time to move along the walls, network boxes that were tossed behind desks instead of being neatly screwed to walls, bent and twisted cables that weren't replaced when they accidentally dropped something on them and simply "stealing" power cables because they had two installations to do and only one working power cable with them (so they installed it at the first customer and simply swiped that cable to be able to install the other one).
I have no idea what could possibly get a tech to do a hack like this, but I wouldn't deem it completely impossible without knowing the whole story behind it.
Re:Hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)
I have no idea what could possibly get a tech to do a hack like this, but I wouldn't deem it completely impossible without knowing the whole story behind it.
Quotas.
SB
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
I wouldn't deem it impossible, and would likely deem it probable.
I used to work for a large american ISP whom I am not at liberty to name. However I worked in support. We had everything from a call from a guy whose wife was in his bed at the time banging our technician to a call about a tech that took a shit while he was in the customers attic fixing some wiring.
After having worked inside one of those companies where these things get reported... I'll believe damn near anything I hear about them at this point.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
Customer: your!tech!is!banging!my!wife!in!my!bed!
Support: Sir?
Customer: !!!!!!!
Support: Sir, he's a professional. So please just relax, and let him finish his installation.
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You have no idea what you're talking about then. I work in the physical security industry, key cards, camera systems, alarms, etc. Not homeowner crap, businesses and government customers. Our company has cleaned up stuff at least this bad left behind by our competitors more than once. In most states a DSL install doesn't even need an 06 licensed electrician unless a building permit has been pulled. The guy who did that "install" was probably changing
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In step 2, you start a repair service that corrects the problems caused by 1.
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Without union protection, the installer responsible can be fired immediately, without the company having to provide fully-documented proof of how many different ways this is wrong.
Unions don't protect customers. Unions protect unions at all costs.
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