Libyan Rebels Weaponize Power Wheels Toys 310
Danny Rathjens pointed out a story about the DIY weapons created by Libyan rebels. One of the more interesting is a machine gun drone created from a Power Wheels-style ATV. Rebels outfit the toys with a small cannon and attach controls via long wire. A solider can hide while he uses a small television and simple controls to move the vehicle and fire the gun. A similar system is also outfitted to a toy truck with a machine gun on top.
pikers (Score:2)
Lock Tony Stark in a cave with nothing more than a forge and some scrap iron and he'll invent a power armor combat suit with freakin' lasers.
Still, kinda cool in a low-rent A-Team way.
Autobots... (Score:2)
Transform and roll out!
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Too funny, but when you air during kiddie hours, you can't be even hurting people apparently.
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I still remember one episode where they shoot down a helicopter from a couple thousand feet, full of people. It spirals in and creates the classic fireball-boom. Next cut scene, everyone is crawling out of the burning wreckage and dusting themselves off. Gatta be one of the funniest episodes.
Re:A-Team written by computer script (Score:4, Funny)
It would have made a lot more sense if they hadn't cut the line "Thank goodness we crashed into a pillow factory!"
Creative, but predictable. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Creative, but predictable. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's great to see. I really hope that when they succeed they turn this creative energy into building a democratic, secular, and scientific society that can be a benchmark for the rest of North Egypt and the Middle East to emulate.
I know - I'm a dreamer.
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North Egypt?
Anyway, this is cute stuff, but it's horribly low-volume and inefficient with the manpower they have. And that thing is vulnerable to a quick kid with a hammer, or a savvy sapper with a hand-grenade and a berm to hide behind.
They should be spending their time doing the diplomatic legwork to get someone to ship them a few hundred tanks, helicopters, and predator drones.
Because otherwise they're not fighting a war, they're putting on a show.
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Hey, maybe you should hope the USA becomes a country like you just described, first, instead of starting wars all around the globe while praising Jesus.
Obligatory Lewis Black quote (Score:2)
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True that. I was truly impressed by not only the engineering skills and resourcefulness of those people, but also their attitude toward the "task" at hand.
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it's impressive what people can do ...with a limited budget.
When's the CIA is behind you, budget is not really an issue.
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You know, that's one of the things I was pondering as I watched that.
Sure, they had some neat toys used innovatively. They also had heavier artillery than most Americans will ever get our hands on. Fully automatic weapons? Chain guns? Crates full of ammo? Missiles?
Here in America, the US Constitution was written to ensure that the people would run the nation, and that we would never be oppressed by our own government. In the days of muskets and cutlasses t
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But if there is a civil insurrection, those involved would be quickly annihilated with superior firepower.
True. The civilian firepower cannot compete with the US military. It is, however, also dependent on the military brass agreeing with attacking the citizens of the nation they are sworn to protect.
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How does Scandinavia fit into your world-view exactly?
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Nobody is going to be handing out weapons. Even if it went that far the Feds would do what the Brits did in the revolutionary war and move in and seize the weapons depots before it reached the point.
But my main point is the millitary wouldn't obey a mission to attack US civilians. Why do you think Vietnam ended, because of protests? No the Vietnam war ended because the millitary refused to fight. The personal charged with identifying targets started sending in reports that no targets were found. Ground and
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/me casually points toward the Pentagon.
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... And come up with really expensive ways to do something that can be done easily.
I swear, the Army should recruit their engineers from hackaday's suppliers, some of the things I've seen done there, especially along with their costs, would make government-sponsored dev teams proud. I'm thinking especially of the Prometheus Device by Everett Bradford (yes, I know flamethrowers against people are illegal. Which is too bad, since we'll never get to see footage of real-life Firebats in combat...).
What's next? (Score:5, Funny)
What comes next? Weapon grade Lego?
Yup , mindstorm becomes firestorm (Score:3)
However I have it on good authority that Gaddafi is lining up crack troops of 5 year olds to disable then break the enemy weapons within minutes by being sick all over them then trying to feed them to an angry cat.
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Even broken lego makes very effective caltrops.
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All Power Wheels and radio-controlled toy vehicles will now be subject to export restrictions.
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already done (caltrops) (Score:5, Funny)
What comes next? Weapon grade Lego?
Ever step barefoot on a 1x1 in the middle of the night on your way to the bathroom?
Re:already done (caltrops) (Score:4, Funny)
Doesn't hurt as much as a d4.
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Ah, the Lego caltrop. Many a mother has cursed the swedish gods over a well placed collection of Lego caltrops.
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The new Taliban? (Score:4, Interesting)
Do we know anything about these rebels other than they don't like Gaddafi? How do we know we're not helping an Al Queada style organisation get into power? I have a bad feeling about this.
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Do we know anything about these rebels other than they don't like Gaddafi? How do we know we're not helping an Al Queada style organisation get into power? I have a bad feeling about this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Transitional_Council#Aims_and_objectives_of_the_national_council [wikipedia.org]
They certainly know how to write a press release that will appeal to their western helpers. Is any of it real? Who knows.
Re:The new Taliban? (Score:5, Insightful)
Something about the fact that they've formed their own central bank [cnbc.com] seems less than grass-roots to me.
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Something about the fact that they've formed their own central bank seems less than grass-roots to me.
To me that's exactly what shows they are not Al Qaeda militants. They are building a regular country's infrastructure, not an Islamist republic.
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I think the ONLY reason the US is bothering with "helping the Freedom Fighters" in Libya, is BECAUSE the Central Bank does not have their claws in this country.
Saddam was moving off the Dollar and kicked out Oil Companies -- after years of being "our bad guy" he was suddenly, worst person in the world.
And guess what? Libya was moving to trading in a collection of currencies rather than the dollar.... ... also, major countries NOT ON BOARD: Iran and North Korea.
>> I spot a trend...
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Libya has been an outright sponsor for terrorist organizations for years and when they backed off on the first world they moved in on Africa supplying arms, training and mercenaries to some of the most vicious rebel groups in the region. You can't get much worse than Gaddafi to begin with so the dice roll is worth the risk.
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Well thats the point - Gaddafi realises that the West can give him a good kicking if he pisses them off and since he's your typical dictator who values his own life he'll naturally restrict himself to what won't get him killed. Al Quaeda doesn't have that restriction - its a nebulous loose knit organisation and has thousands of brainwashed volunteers just ready to die for their idiotic cause. In my mind that is FAR more dangerous that some standard issue psychopath.
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We won't know until it is done. If you know what happened in Afghanistan many years ago we helped the locals there push out the Russians and then deserted them leaving a power vacuum that was filled up by the Taliban. Hopefully, after the rebels win in Libya NATO (and not just the US) will quickly recognize the new government (which right now only a couple of countries have) and provide as much aid as we can - including helping to draft a secular constitution.
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its an odd thing that i've been thinking about lately.
the US owes most of it's debt to China
that debt is under agreement that it is forfeited if China commits acts of war against the US
China is heavily doing corporate & government espionage - including "hacking"
the US recently said "hacking" is an act of war
it will be interesting how that plays out in the next decade - either way we are fucked money wise.
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no we are not. Stop listening to people who make money and power from scaring people.
IT's not great, but it's getting better, and is solvable. It's harped upon by people who want to kill government programs they have been trying to kill for year. Programs that have precaution and adjustments to adhere to change built in.
sadly,. the people saying this haven't bothers to understand what they are talking about, and when an actual, real world, dyed in the wool expert points out when they are wrong, they just sl
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Sorry but attacking me as if i am "listening to people who make money and power from scaring people" is not a good way to make an argument, in fact its rather insulting.
I don't give a shit what the media says or what the people in office say or what the banks say.
I look at it as how our society has developed over the past 100 years and the transfer of wealth from one group to another. We have so many problems right now that are related to money that there is no one/two/100 things you could do to make it al
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Selective reading skills? From my post:
"then deserted them leaving a power vacuum" - So yes I mean the power vacuum we helped create. That's why I said it.
"NATO (and not just the US) " - So by aid I meant NATO - again - that's why I said it.
"including helping to draft a secular constitution." - So not all aid is $$$.
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This is exactly why we haven't given them surface to air missiles like we did in Afghanistan in the 80s. They tend to still be around later when they turnaround and start shooting at you.
Well yeah. Plus it'd be pointless and self-defeating. We gave Stingers to the Mujahideen because they were getting stomped by Russian air power, and being the Cold War we obviously couldn't directly protect them.
Libya is completely different, because we have free reign to use our Air Force and Navy -- conveniently the branches of military not strained to the limit by two other wars -- and so Qaddafi can't do shit from the air. There's nothing for the rebels to use Stingers on.
I mean, even in the best case
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http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-153774.html [straightdope.com]
2nd post from the bottom. The gun is offset slightly so that the actual firing barrel is on the center line; because it's a gatlin gun, the firing point isn't the center of the 'gun' like a single barreled gun would be. That makes sense. This wasn't a slowing issue but one of attitude control. With the gun centered and thus the firing barrel offset it would exert a force off to the side of the barrel offset (yaw maybe?)
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You should play Sierra's A-10 Tank Killer 2 if you haven't already.
Re:The new Taliban? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Yeah I don't see how a dead battery in a missile is significantly more serious than a dead battery in a cell phone...even if they're sealed units (would be quite understandable given their purpose) it would be well worth their while to go through the trouble of peeling them open and giving them new batteries.
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I have a bad feeling about this.
Me too. I can't help but feel like this is Afghanistan vs. Russia all over again. Today's freedom fighters are tomorrow's terrorists...
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Be sure to tell Doc Brown. He's about to sell them some Plutonium.
Calm down, he's only going to make them a fake bomb with pinball machine parts...
This is why the US army has a challenge. (Score:2)
Libyan Rebels cost for a robotic gun. About $500 after a few weeks of tinkering.
Probably fails 10% of the time.
US cost for a robotic gun. 5 million per unit which don't work when first deployed after a 300 million dollar development program taking 4 years to complete. Eventually 90% reliable in the field.
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Ans the us robotic gun will fly and shoot missiles as well as be controlled from the other side of the globe.
And will be 99.9 percent reliable... and it will cost 9K per unit.
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This power wheel toy is a lot closer to a Sword [wikipedia.org] than an aerial drone.
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my poorly illustrated point was that the comparison was false. I could have done better.
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I do not believe it will be 99.9% reliable in field conditions.
Every time we have a raid, we lose at last one multi-million dollar helicopter.
The failure rate on these things are classified so we can't really no. But if we lose one jet a year, we are not running a 99.9% reliability and we already lost a jet this year too.
I do not disagree that we have some impressive weaponly. I'm quite impressed with the Apache helicopters-- effective 2 mile range, day or night for a 1' target. And with our tanks- firin
Re:This is why the US army has a challenge. (Score:4, Insightful)
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I'm impressed by their ingenuity. American hardware of this type is, without question, overpriced. A special effects company out of Hollywood could probably build the same thing for far less than some government contractor.
That said, you're seriously overestimating the reliability of that Libyan platform and underestimating the effectiveness of the American versions.
Have you ever seen Power Wheels in action? They run at 5mph, a more expensive model might approach 10mph. An adult can outrun these things. Not
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Have you ever seen Power Wheels in action? They run at 5mph, a more expensive model might approach 10mph. An adult can outrun these things. Not that it's necessary given that it's a slow moving target. Battery life on these things is maybe 30-60 minutes. They're really only good for getting across fairly flat terrain. And from the video I've seen it looks like it operated via a cable, not wireless.
A more serious problem should be apparent from the video. There is a guy standing next to the toy truck, feeding it the ammo belt...
Re:This is why the US army has a challenge. (Score:4, Insightful)
People often forget where that $800 hammer comes from :-)
- You need to have a DARPA program to fund research into advanced nail insertion technology (ANIT).
- Then you have some FFRDC do an involved trade study that concludes that a hammer is preferably to the DARPA-developed ANIT project.
- A program executive office (PEO) now hosts an industry day presentation on the US Army's Tactical Hammer Needs to the tool-making industries
- The PEO now publishes a Request For Information (RFI) to solicit information from industry on steel hardening and handle-forming capabilities that could be used for the hammers.
- Finally a Request for Proposal (RFP) is published, along with a detailed performance spec, requirements list, and statement of work. There is a limited number of hammers desired, with options for buying more later. They also have to conform to various Military standards that no tool you'd buy at Home Depot would ever have to confirm to. Also, they do need to be made in the US in a facility that holds the proper security clearances.
- The PEO finally selects one of the submitted proposals, awarding the contract.
- One of the loosing contractors decides to file a formal protest, and drags the process out longer. Eventually a settlement is made, and the selected prime contractor takes them on as a subcontractor for handle-to-head integration.
- After several rounds of requirements engineering, systems engineering, and product R&D, along with approvals at preliminary and critical design reviews (PDR/CDR), the government gives the go-ahead to enter Low-Rate Initial Production (LRIP).
- Testing eventually finds issues in the initial batch. Some design changes are made, costs are passed along, and eventually the hammer enters full-rate production (FRP).
- Following training and deployment, the MK42 Tactical Nail Insertion Device (code-name "Hammer") is deployed into the field.
- Meanwhile, nails are getting tougher, and follow-on program for the MK49 Objective Nail Banger is announced.
I could go on forever :-)
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You don't think that 800$ actually paid for a hammer, do you?
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I've heard that the so-called "black programs" are actually far more likely to be on-time and within-budget, due to not having to deal with all the same sorts of red tape :-)
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People often laugh at the the $800 hammer story, and I'm certainly not going to say that every military project is a bastion of fiscal responsibly and restraint. On the other hand civilians typically don't understand the often very good reasons that some of these things cost so much. A few months ago there was a story about the Army using Android as a development base for a lot of portable, soldier carried, software tools. These tools were being proof of concepted using commercial handsets on regular US
Oh great (Score:2)
Now we're going to get weapons-export laws on Tonka trucks, and mandatory background checks for a Barbie Jeep.
Why so long? (Score:2)
I'm surprised it's taken this long for this to happen. I remember "hacking" my Big Track [wikipedia.org] when I was a kid by using the 1/8 inch jack that was used to activate the dumping bin to activate a solenoid. Of course my parents only allowed me to use a toy pellet gun.
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Finally! (Score:2)
My Big Traks [wikipedia.org]'s wait is almost over! Their day of glory is nigh!
sign of the times (Score:2)
I've often wondered whether powerwheels type toys would make a good hackable robot platform.
The US couldn't have done this for under $100mil (Score:4, Insightful)
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Too much resources - everything is made to order. Design and production takes time from innovation, and the result is layer upon layer of bureacracy. Besides it's too cozy - your life and future are not under immediate threat and there's too much money at hand.
It's amazing what dedicated DIY types can come up with.
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Or other countries' troops, given some of the sub-standard USArmy equipment they're given...
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This version probably breaks one in three times you try to use it, randomly discharges it's weapon whenever there's a small gust of wind, and occasionally blows up.
There's nothing wrong with a bit of solid DIY hacking when you're in a tight fix, but it's apples-and-oranges with large scale engineering projects.
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Don't you think the troops would just love the handcrafted, improvised with *AMERICAN!* ingenuity, cobbled together with no quality control "devices" instead of the cold, heartless, tested, efficient, lighter, tougher, hardened equipment they are normally issued?
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I think they would prefer not to roll the dice on whether their robot gun is going to shoot the enemy, shoot themselves, or just blow up spectacularly like a big "look who's hiding here" sign.
I work in EMS. Sure, I look at a $10k power stretcher [stryker.com] and go "I could do that for cheaper"
But could I? Here's the thing - for mission-critical equipment, you don't fuck around. Be smart about how you spend your money - which means you should get the tool you need and know it'll work right every time. Don't waste it, by
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no it could. It cost 60k-150K, depending on the unit. It's a lot more sophisticated and reliable, and we can mount a very wide range of weaponry.
Weapons Development (Score:5, Interesting)
When I was in Iraq 2006-2008 I was often frustrated by how slow new weapons and defensive mechanism were developed by the DA. Often we would end up fabricating our own IED countermeasures using whatever material we found on our base. We often surprised ourselves with the effectiveness of the ideas we came up with. I've often wondered since then how much more effective that process would have been if it had been possible to attach a team of computer scientists and structural engineers to an Army unit. Instead we ended up trying not to get blown up and hope that someone somewhere was getting our INTEL and developing new vehicles and supplies to counteract a very intelligent and capable enemy.
BTW my time in Iraq pretty much solidified my opinion that our presence over there is pointless. Assume that we were able to establish a democracy in that country it wouldn't take long for it to fall. All it would take is one Sheik to disagree with the constitution and/or government and automatically the tribe under that Sheik would automatically support the Sheik and work to undermine the government. Tribe and family is far more important in that culture than individual rights and government. So why try to force on them a government that runs counter to their culture. Why is it assumed that everyone really wants to be in a democracy? There is no such thing as one government that fits all people. I tend to be more libertarian but that doesn't mean that a socialist style government is necessarily wrong. I only think that people should be given the choice of moving to whatever country best fits their belief system. Lol let the flaming begin.
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I've often wondered since then how much more effective that process would have been if it had been possible to attach a team of computer scientists and structural engineers to an Army unit.
http://www.usace.army.mil/ [army.mil]
US Army Corps of Engineers
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So where are they?
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Funny, your story reminds me of the one my Dad tells about being in the Army Corps of Engineers in Vietnam. Guys in his unit created their own Banana clip to add ammo capability to their assault rifles. Upper levels freaked when they saw what they had done, eventually though, their design made it back and became the curved design now used.
BTW I agree with your BTW!
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When I was in Iraq 2006-2008
Things have changed some since then. Iraq still might fall apart the moment the US leaves, but it's not as much of a bloodbath now as it was during your stay there.
All it would take is one Sheik to disagree with the constitution and/or government and automatically the tribe under that Sheik would automatically support the Sheik and work to undermine the government.
That's the thing about democracies. It provides a built in system for undermining the government via elections without undermining the society. Maybe that sheik will start shooting, but he's got to consider that his tribe will become fair game for anyone else who allies with the government. And if the government is in good shape at the time, ther
"Solider"? (Score:2)
So now they're pow-pow-pow-pow-pow-pow-pow, pow-pow-pow-pow, pow-pow-pow-pow-pow-pow-powerwheels!
And what's a "solider"?
News at 11 (Score:2)
"Think of the children" mentioned 100 times in bill.
Dirty Harry 5: The Dead Pool (Score:2)
Model rocket Stinger (Score:4, Funny)
Watching the video, and the homemade RPG reminded me of a SAM my cousins and I built as kids.
1) An Estes model rocket...a WAC Corporal...with a B8-4 motor.
2) A shipping tube with a launch rod glued to the bottom cap.
3) Copper strips glued/screwed to bottom cap with wires running outside to a Burgess B battery and momentary switch from Radio Shack.
You slid the rocket down the tube on the launch rod with the nichrome igniter wires touching the copper strips. Aim, press the switch, and whoosh....a balsa and cardboard Stinger.
We didn't have the C4 and blasting caps for the warhead portion (thankfully), but we could aim and fire a $4 rocket.
The nosecone was to be built from C4 with a blasting cap on the nose and underneath. If you missed a direct impact, the ejection charge from the motor would slam a washer into the underneath blasting cap and still detonate the missile. At least that was our thinking.
Again, we never had anything that actually exploded, but something like this would probably work against low-flying helicopters. A C or D motor would give more range, etc.
Yes, we had way too much time on our hands. One of our test flights did cause 3 casualties...to a neighbor's chickens. A fin came off on launch and the rocket arced into the neighbor's chicken yard at feeding time. The rocket didn't hit the massed birds but 3 apparently died from fright. We paid for the dead birds from allowances and odd jobs.
Years later, in the Air Force, I was assigned to the USAF Rocket Propulsion Lab at Edwards AFB. I managed not to kill or blow up anything there.
What's Next? (Score:2)
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I can just see an innocent looking Barbie pink corvette equipped with weapons ala Kitt from Knight Rider. Hasselhoff cannot be far behind.
They're going to weaponize Hasselhoff?!?
Isn't that against the Geneva Convention?
Cool story - but ... (Score:2)
Not quite the powerwheels hack I was looking for (Score:2)
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Ah yes, lets not let the kids figure stuff out for themselves.
Follow the cable... (Score:2)
SImply not cooperating can stop things... (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyagraha [wikipedia.org]
The "pacifist"-labelled engineer who says he will kill but then wants to not be like his enemy is probably mostly fooling himself ultimately. Much political violence starts with those words....
So much innovation there, why can it not be applied in other ways to create abundance for all? How long woudl any regime last if everyone just stops listening at once?
http://the-open-boat.com/Gatto.html [the-open-boat.com]
"A lot of the constraints on us, a lot of the ah, ah - strings
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"Simply not cooperating can stop things..."
Less obvious is the massive cooperation required to make non-cooperation effective.
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I can't believe this is on slashdot. They control it using long wires? Man, if they had some wireless stuff going on with an Arduino or something, then it would be news. Long wires are sooo 1990's. /sarcasm
Sarcasm aside, it shows a certain level of sophistication and planning. Hardwires can't be jammed, can't be detected, and are far more reliable.
The only downside I can see is limited range (which doesn't appear to be an issue with their use case) and that you can follow the wire back to the controller (which leads to interesting ambush possibilities).