Crowdsourcing Ancient Egyptian Scrolls 94
An anonymous reader writes "Dons at Oxford University were on the BBC Radio 4 'Today' program this morning asking for help from listeners to transcribe unearthed ancient Egyptian texts and scrolls via their website. Visitors to the site are asked to match-up letters on scanned fragments of papyrus with an on-screen Greek alphabet. By doing so, they can help reveal some of the amazing documents that the ancient Egyptians last read. You too can become a papyrologist!"
Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:5, Funny)
Greek? You expect me to help translate Ptolemaic period shit?!?!? Do I *look* like Alexander the Fucking Great to you?
You want my help, you better throw down some hieroglyphs, bitch!
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:5, Funny)
Indeed, why don't they just use EMACS, it does have the appropriate function built in.
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:0)
Back then they knew how to keep it simple. Just look at the beaty of the simple shape ofthe pyramids. Only Vim was used and all Emacs users were fed to the crocodiles.
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:3)
I think Josephus is still looking for some....
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:0)
Doesn't that parable then follow that Emacs users were later saved by a Vim user who saw the light and realized the evils inflicted by Vim. He then then led to Emacs users to freedom. Followed by Vim users being held beneath contempt and held high for all time as ignorance, pride and vanity. I'm pretty sure that's how the story ended.
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:0)
Even Sobek is sick of Emacs Users.
-Sent from Emacs
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:0)
ah yes, good old C-x M-c M-ankh
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:2)
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:3, Funny)
Greek is easier to reed than hieroglyphics.
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:2)
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:2)
Can someone explain my joke? I know reeds are somehow associated with Egypt, but...
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:2)
-Marcus Antonius
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:0, Funny)
Suck my dick bitch!
-Alexander The Great
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:1)
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:1)
No, they expect people to transcribe the Greek texts, letter by individual letter, which is theoretically doable if you are familiar with the Greek alphabet, e.g., from math, even if you can't read Greek
The problem is that the Greek letters in the papyri look nothing like the modern Greek letters shown in the virtual Greek keyboard provided by the transcription application. Unless you are well-versed in palaeography [wikipedia.org], you are not likely to be able to contribute in the transcription of these texts.
Still, I hope there is some interesting stuff in those papyri, waiting to be (re)discovered.
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:2)
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:2)
It's actually not too bad... give it a shot.
After the first 3-5 papyri with actual text on it, you sort of find a transcription rhythm...
It helps greatly to have familiarity with the Greek alphabet from both a mathematical perspective but also from modern hand-written Greek. It's surprising how many common cosmetic styling permutations are still present today...
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:1)
You want hieroglyphics, look at the Ribbon on MsWord 2007. You want alphabetically written commands, look at MsWord 2003 or any other program that uses menus.
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:2)
Greek? You expect me to help translate Ptolemaic period shit?!?!? Do I *look* like Alexander the Fucking Great to you?
You want my help, you better throw down some hieroglyphs, bitch!
No problem habibi, cheap hieroglyphs for our bitch Anubis, only 15 pound habibi. Okay okay you drive hard bargain, we make it 10!
Re:Oh fuck Hellenistic period Egypt! (Score:2)
Of course you did.
Crowdcursed? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Crowdcursed? (Score:5, Funny)
No thanks. I hear those Egyptian curses are nasty, and are acquired by simply reading something or breaking a seal.
PHds have always treated grad students as disposable.
Re:Crowdcursed? (Score:0)
PHds have always treated grad students as disposable.
So THAT's why they make them walk around in red shirts!!
Re:Crowdcursed? (Score:4, Funny)
That is how you measure success. If everyone in your data center dies, then the translation worked.
Re:Crowdcursed? (Score:0)
Survival of the stupidest
Woohoo - I will survive.
Re:Crowdcursed? (Score:1)
Don't be a pussy, they gave up on those in the Old Kingdom times as training enough proofreaders was far too expensive.
Re:Crowdcursed? (Score:2)
Slave labour! (Score:1)
Just like the ancient Egyptians these researchers are relying on slave labour!
Re:Slave labour! (Score:1)
Remember to have plenty of bug spray (for the locusts), French (for the frogs), and keep them away from water.
smart ! (Score:3)
I think this is a great idea, although they would need some peer review and a full board to accept the translations as being the most accurate....but a great way to save money, that's for sure
Re:smart ! (Score:0)
It would be, only if their server worked... All these hands willing to help and to no avail. Obviously not a good way to save money after all.
Re:smart ! (Score:2)
Certainly, as well as to go beyond literal translation and learn the implications of the content of the text (literal translation is great for performing statistical analysis but that won't help you discover much of anything). On the accuracy side that's why you would first establish a minimum threshold of reliability by having the work done by more than one amateur and requiring consensus. Same as with CAPTCHA and other crowdsourcing mechanisms.
transcribing, not translating (Score:0)
I see this as transcribing, not translating.
Getting help typing up a scanned document that can't be OCR'ed seems straightforward enough, and then that text could be handed off to a(n) expert(s) at translating Ancient Greek into English.
check out zigzone dot com (Score:3)
Re:check out zigzone dot com (Score:4)
But then they would have to allow people to copy/download images. They couldn't have that! FTFA:"Images can not be copied or offloaded...". My answer, "Go fuck yourself. I have better things to do with my time than try to focus on thumbnail sized images on a shitty flash driven website that has moving images on it".
Re:check out zigzone dot com (Score:2)
i bet you are so inept you could not pour piss out of a boot even if the instructions were written on the bottom...
Re:check out zigzone dot com (Score:2)
I'm sorry. I should have included tags and specifics to make my post more understandable.
[sarcasm]
But then they would have to allow people to copy/download images. They couldn't have that!
[/sarcasm]
My answer TO THE SITE REQUESTING HELP, "Go fuck yourself....."
Try it... (Score:2)
It's actually pretty fun. I already transcribed one piece. It's running a bit slow though. When they said "crowd sourcing", I don't think they meant "slashdot crowd sourcing".
Re:Try it... (Score:0)
I hope they keep the original papyrus well away from their server :-)
I'm disappointed (Score:2)
Mine was:
two figs
some dates
half a dozen eggs
breakfast sausage
cottage cheese
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:5, Interesting)
You're trying to be silly, but that kind of information would be useful:
- If I have a bunch of people's shopping lists, I'd be able to tell what sort of things were commonly eaten in that society.
- Based on how many other people had those foods on the list, I'd likely be able to get an idea as to what's considered rare delicacies versus what's common food (e.g. caviar versus ground beef).
- Especially combining that information with where the document was found, I'd have a good chance of linking menus to social classes.
- Once I've got an idea of which social classes have these documents and which don't, I'd know how widespread literacy was in that society, whether there were only professional scribes or amateur writers as well, and maybe some sense of how integrated the scribes were with the rest of the society.
I mean, imagine you're an archaeologist from the year 3000 trying to figure out why this "pizza" stuff was so wildly popular in ancient New York. Suddenly the nutritional information on the back of a pepperoni wrapper is vitally important.
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:3)
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:2)
I mean, imagine you're an archaeologist from the year 3000 trying to figure out why this "pizza" stuff was so wildly popular in ancient New York. Suddenly the nutritional information on the back of a pepperoni wrapper is vitally important.
Sodium! They alowed sodium in food products! Barbarians!
Peparonni? Meat! Theay actually consumed living animals! Bloody Mindless Christians!
Cheese? Milk! Why don't they just smear dog crap on it?
They should have eaten what I had for lunch. Palmerized pseudo lichen, just like Mother used to make.
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:0)
Bones? Is that you?
a canticle for Leibowitz (Score:3)
You're trying to be silly, but that kind of information would be useful: - If I have a bunch of people's shopping lists, I'd be able to tell what sort of things were commonly eaten in that society. - Based on how many other people had those foods on the list, I'd likely be able to get an idea as to what's considered rare delicacies versus what's common food (e.g. caviar versus ground beef). - Especially combining that information with where the document was found, I'd have a good chance of linking menus to social classes. - Once I've got an idea of which social classes have these documents and which don't, I'd know how widespread literacy was in that society, whether there were only professional scribes or amateur writers as well, and maybe some sense of how integrated the scribes were with the rest of the society.
I mean, imagine you're an archaeologist from the year 3000 trying to figure out why this "pizza" stuff was so wildly popular in ancient New York. Suddenly the nutritional information on the back of a pepperoni wrapper is vitally important.
the text you are looking for is " A canticle for Leibowitz", [wikipedia.org] by Walter Miller. I distinctly remember that in the story there's a little note attributed to Leibowitz himself, that reads:"Pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels—bring home for Emma."
upon this, and other finds, a civilisation is reborn after a nuclear war.
Couriously enough, I read the book because it was quoted in the novel "Space" [wikipedia.org], by James Michener, when one of the main characters wants to leave a legacy of love for science. Remeber, this is Slashdot!
Re:a canticle for Leibowitz (Score:2)
Canticle's a great book. One of the few novels I've actually read multiple times.
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:1)
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:2)
... Suddenly the nutritional information on the back of a pepperoni wrapper is vitally important.
If we can't understand what the nutritional information of the back of any food really says, i'm pretty sure the archaeologist is going to have trouble also.
Anyways, real pizza doesn't come from a store.
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:0)
You should see mine:
titanium
tungsten
naquadah
trinium
Weird shopping list.
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:0)
Very funny Radek...now get back to work or do I need to do your job for you, again?
McKay
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:0)
Wait till you see the next one, Mac:
two all-beef patties
special sauce
lettuce
cheese
pickles
onions
sesame seed bun
My translation said (Score:2)
"I have picked-up the trust and courage to write to you this letter with divine confidence that you are a reliable and honest person who will be capable for this important business transaction ..."
Re:My translation said (Score:0)
Very similar to mine. It says something like "Invest now to get in on the ground floor of this major new pyramid scheme."
Re:My translation said (Score:0)
Re:My translation said (Score:2)
Re:I'm disappointed (Score:1)
my dad studied this stuff for his phd in the 50s, and he told me once, when I was a little kid, that the museum storerooms are overflowing with papyri and cuniform clay tablets, and most of them are todo lists, and doodles and stuff like that - just like most of the paper and e stuff we write today
Somewhat misleading headline. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Somewhat misleading headline. (Score:3)
We are saddened by the passing of yet another antique historian, and offer our sincerest condolences to your next of kin
Re:Somewhat misleading headline. (Score:2)
Can you recommend any works for earlier periods? I'm a casual historian (history buff? not sure of the best way to put that. hobbyist? you get the idea) myself and currently looking into pre-Ptolemaic Egypt. I have a (as yet unread) copy of Nicolas Grimal's A History of Ancient Egypt, but I'm not sure where to go next.
Re:Somewhat misleading headline. (Score:0)
The word you're looking for is "enthusiast"?
Re:Somewhat misleading headline. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Somewhat misleading headline. (Score:2)
Thank you. I'll dig in on those and then curse you or laud you to the skies in a few months' time :)
Re:Somewhat misleading headline. (Score:2)
Egypt in Late Antiquity (1993)
It really doesn't take a lot for something to be considered old and/or antiquated these days.
There's your problem... (Score:4, Funny)
There's your problem. These symbols that you're translating as "Door of Heaven" should be something more like "Star Gate".
I can spot the chevron (Score:2)
Re:I can spot the chevron (Score:1)
Isn't there another one in Antarctica?
-- Henry Jones, Sr.
I translated a line ! (Score:2)
Made for Crowdsourcing (Score:3)
I heard about this on RadioLab awhile ago - a trash dump full of fragments of old scrolls. I believe it was the "Detective Stories" episode: http://www.radiolab.org/2007/sep/10/ [radiolab.org]
They were saying it would take centuries to match up all of the pieces, because they only had a few people working on it, and so many scraps to go through. My immediate thought was that they should scan them all and put them on the Internet, and some bored 17 year old would write a program in Scala that would run in the cloud and match everything up in a weekend. Sounds like somebody else had the same idea ...
I started one (Score:3)
Re:I started one (Score:2)
Hey! Ever hear of a SPOILER ALERT?
Let me guess... (Score:2)
horrible software for viewing the framents. (Score:0)
Just took a look at it nice site but 3 levels of zoom to look at the very small fragment they give you. Its a digital image let me zoom in so i can actually see something and maybe we could help.
This is so cool! (Score:3)
Re:This is so cool! (Score:0)
you think these scrolls aren't really late egyptian playboy equivalents?
Re:This is so cool! (Score:2)
95% are member enlargment ads (Score:2)
i.e. http://www.flickr.com/photos/32382279@N02/3043826837/ [flickr.com]
Copyright? (Score:1)
"Images may not be copied or offloaded, and the images and their texts may not be published. All digital images of the Oxyrhynchus Papyri are © Imaging Papyri Project, University of Oxford. The papyri themselves are owned by the Egypt Exploration Society, London. All rights reserved."
They want help transcribing these documents, but don't want anyone to keep copies of the images? How rude.
Re:Copyright? (Score:2)
Man, these copyright extension acts are really getting out of hand.
Kidding aside - so much for letting opencv spend a night or two on it.
Hello? this is the future (Score:2)
Make it a facebook games, and get millions of players overnight. Give them a free virtual hat or something.
Re:Hello? this is the future (Score:0)
+1
Re:Hello? this is the future (Score:2)
Firefox? (Score:2)
Quite a shame, finally found a fragment I could transcribe too
Re:Firefox? (Score:2)
app works in firefox just fine. I'm not sure you have to register to start transcribing.
Re:Firefox? (Score:2)
Re:Firefox? (Score:2)
text to speach? (Score:1)
Amazon Turk (Score:0)
Why can't they apply for a research grant, like the rest of us, and pay for Amazon Turk to do it?
My fragment. (Score:0)
PC LOAD LETTER
Huh? What the fuck does that mean?
Reminds me of Bubba-Ho-Tep (Score:0)
[in the washroom stall, looking at hieroglyphics on the wall]
JFK: Now this top line translates into, "Pharoah gobbles donkey goobers," and the bottom line, "Cleopatra does the nasty."
Elvis: Say what?
JFK: Well pretty much, that's the best I can translate it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0281686/
Copyright critters on ancient documents. (Score:1)
Images may not be copied or offloaded, and the images and their texts may not be published. All digital images of the Oxyrhynchus Papyri are © Imaging Papyri Project, University of Oxford. The papyri themselves are owned by the Egypt Exploration Society, London. All rights reserved.
I think translating these are a good idea but hell if the above isn't a killjoy for crowd-sourcing. Yes we want you to work for us.. no you can not take a bit copy of something you find really interesting that you've helped us out with.
Re:Copyright critters on ancient documents. (Score:2)
fragments of papyrus (Score:2)
Is this [youtube.com] why?