Lord British Claims He Owns the Moon 144
An anonymous reader writes "Following the recent discovery of Richard Garriott's old moon rover, the man known as Lord British has laid claim to his own lunar territory. Moon dwellers, all hail your new overlord!"
Property Values (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Property Values (Score:4, Interesting)
Simple. We declare, that as he now has his own land, he and that land, is a country. And that that country just declared war upon us.
*BOOOM*
Done. ^^
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Yup. I guess 'Lord British' has never heard of enclosure. He'll have to build a fence around his rover to indicate the boundaries of his land.
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Then he needs to build a Dyson Sphere. ;^)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabo_v_Queensland_(No_2) [wikipedia.org]
It's just the vibe of the thing.
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Your ignore an important part of the issue which is we've completely massacred all the wildlife in the area and plants that grew there so they can no longer subsist on their land, because of what the Crown did.
Headline. (Score:2, Funny)
Lemme guess (Score:2)
Actually, if I were to guess what next, it would be "Lord British accuses cabbages of conspiring to invade his lunar domain." ;)
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Have you not seen Red Planet?
The nematodes ate all the cabbage, and they destroyed his probe.
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-a less dodgy source [space.com]
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What's next? 'Lord British holds earth to ransom from his moon fortress!
I don't know, but if I see this guy, I'll be tempted to start an interorbital* war by punching the moon's ambasador. Not that I bear any ill will to the guy, just want to get into the history books.
*I suppose I should learn what type of war I'll be starting, and this is probably a good place to find that out. What would that be called? I mean, besides assault. Intrasolar system war? Intertidal orbit war?
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Shhh! As long as he's defending his claim, he won't be making any more shitty, shitty games.
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Ultima IV and V were pretty decent. By Ultima VII the series was so overly self referential that I don't think hardly anyone but old fans would have enjoyed it. Ultima VII still did a lot of stuff that was really innovative then and even now, but was certainly more than a little campy when it came to plot. The ultima games haven't really aged all that well IMO, but are still a lot of fun. The Underworld games were awesome too. Most people seem to forget that Ultima Online was one of the very first MMORPGs t
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Seriously? Peter Molyneux? Peter Molyneux made one good game in his life: Populous. Then he proceeded to make tons of terrible games like Fable afterwards. Now he seems to have mastered the art of bullshit: "our game will let you experience real human emotions blah blah blah"
I wouldn't put Lord British's orig
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ok bad example. warren spector is a pure genius though!
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It seems to me that he DOES occupy the territory. Or rather, an object he owns does. Which is more than anyone else can claim.
Defending his territory...well, maybe we'll find out, someday.
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I don't see how anyone can claim he hasn't defended his territory. Has anybody successfully attacked it? No? Then his defenses seem to be working.
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moron
And I'm a Duke of Sealand (Score:2, Funny)
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If Sealand weren't common knowledge among nerden it would be a perfectly valid idle post.
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TFA (Score:3, Funny)
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Well, the elegance of your wording will surely lead to some positive feedback.
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The poor foetus was a lobotomite, you insensitive clod.
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not the entire moon (Score:1)
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You must be new here.
This came up last time (Score:2)
This claim may be new to the submitter, and to Soulskill, but not to Slashdot. [slashdot.org]
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My personal favorite part was the word ultra-ego.
Really, I didn't know you were such a coin-a-suer
His new neighbor... (Score:3, Funny)
Blowhard, or blows hard, your choice (Score:2)
The lord has already been deposed! (Score:3, Informative)
Explorers stick a flag on new land (Score:2)
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If the US manages to emplace enough population to let Luna qualify for immediate statehood, ahead of anyone else occupying the land, I'm not sure there's anything in the UN treaty excluding doing it. Claiming it as an annexed territory is one thing, having its permanent inhabitants petition for statehood is constitutionally very much another.
Not Bloody Likely (Score:5, Insightful)
Garriott may or may not own a legal title to Lunokhod (it is by no means a given that the auction sale was a legitimate title), but there is no way buying Lunokhod gives him any ownership rights to any piece of the Moon, however small.
From http://www.space.com/news/soviet-moon-rover-space-law-100322.html [space.com]:
Validity of ownership?
Enter space lawyer, Joanne Irene Gabrynowicz. She is Director of the National Center for Remote Sensing, Air and Space Law and Research Professor of Law at the University of Mississippi.
"The soundness of a property right depends in large part on the integrity of the documents that memorialize the right," Gabrynowicz told SPACE.com via email. "This is why property buyers conduct title searches before buying property. They want to be sure that the title is good."
Gabrynowicz said that without reading the papers or knowing how they were processed and by whom, she can't speak to the validity of the ownership of a space object purchased at auction.
"However, a contention that buying a space object that landed on the lunar surface from a sovereign nation gives rise to a property right to the territory under it is wrong," Gabrynowicz said.
Gabrynowicz said that States-Parties to the Outer Space Treaty of 1966 cannot acquire lunar territory by landing an object on the moon.
"The USSR was and Russia is a party to the Outer Space Treaty," she added. "It did not acquire the territory under the object when it landed. One cannot sell what one does not own. Since USSR/Russia did not have a property right to the territory under the landed object, there was nothing to sell."
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"The USSR was and Russia is a party to the Outer Space Treaty," she added. "It did not acquire the territory under the object when it landed. One cannot sell what one does not own. Since USSR/Russia did not have a property right to the territory under the landed object, there was nothing to sell."
The treaty only applies to nations, not individuals who purchase something from a nation so I suspect that angle is pretty useless. I'm suspecting a better "he doesn't own anything" angle would be 1) the rover is non-functional or 2) owning a dead rover on the moon is like owning the wreck of a chevy impala on Mars, you'd have a hard time protecting "your" property from the first person who actually made it up there.
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The treaty only applies to nations, not individuals who purchase something from a nation so I suspect that angle is pretty useless.
All ownership rights arise within a system of laws - international law or national law (which assumes also an international legal structure that preserves national rights) . No national law can give him ownership, so you are asserting there is an international statute or legal principle that gives a private individual property rights possessed by no sovereign nation, and is in fact specifically denied them? Please provide information about this novel legal principle.
I note that you appear to be attempting t
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Well, not a political fantasy since the US did originate in the traditional fashion, which is homesteading, which in turn owes its pre-eminent exposition to Locke. So in point of fact, the superseding legal principle is controlling and advancing the value of the land in question, whether here or on Mars or the Moon.
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Well, not a political fantasy since the US did originate in the traditional fashion, which is homesteading, which in turn owes its pre-eminent exposition to Locke. So in point of fact, the superseding legal principle is controlling and advancing the value of the land in question, whether here or on Mars or the Moon.
Political fantasy - whether authored by Locke or anyone else. You do realize that Locke is not the basis of property law anywhere I hope? Homesteaders obtained title from the United States Government (or earlier from the King of the United Kingdom). Special acts of Congress (Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854, The Homestead Act of 1862, etc.) were necessary to allow homesteading in new areas.
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This, of course, is why you can displace indigenous people from "their" land, right? No government ever issued them a proper title, so it isn't really their land...
That is exactly correct. The "title" the homesteaders acquired was granted only by English (and later American) law, completely ignoring Indian claims and rights (even "proper title", issued by English or American government to various Indians and tribes often did not protect their ownership in the end). And the English/Americans could do it only because of superior force of arms. It was the imposition of an outside government that created those "rights" of ownership.
The notion that property rights exist ou
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You nearly got there. Title or no title, it was the "superior force of arms" that counts.
You only own what you can keep. Everything else is just convention.
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Joanne Irene Gabrynowicz.... Space Lawyer!!
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space lawyer
Now there's a job title with a B-movie behind it...
It's much simpler than that (Score:3, Insightful)
And, because R.A.H. is taken as Gospel around here: the moon dwellers didn't gain sovereignty until they showed that they could pummel the bejeezus out of Eart
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Really? I thought the point of the legal system was to avoid all this "might makes right" chaos that would prevail without the law. No wonder your post was modded "insightful"!
I'm going to start working out and arming myself to the teeth. If my neighbor cannot defend his claim to his swimming pool, well then I guess it's MY swimming pool now.
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Live someplace with a weak government and you'll see what I mean.
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Didn't some company in Neveda try selling titles/deeds to the Moon years back? You know, I don't think any of those titles/deeds are going to be worth anything. I think true ownership will be when someone actually takes up residence or makes use of a given property on the Moon. No pointing and saying, "Hey, that there, it's mine!"
I'm not a lawyer, but common sense sort of dictates this, doesn't it? I mean, under whose authority will those titles/deeds be enforced? We're all here back on Earth afterall.
If you google "moon property" there are several such charlatans out there. I had the same question the first time I saw that..."under whose authority?" The websites I looked at were very vague on the topic.
I guess the "common sense dictate" is this: if you buy "property on the moon" and think that it's anything other than a joke/novelty, you deserve to get ripped off.
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Let him eat cheese! (Score:2)
(subject says it all...)
Can't believe he is being serious (Score:2, Insightful)
I guess I could be wrong, but I have a feeling he is kinda joking around when he made the cracks about having people pay to "park in his spot." I find it hard to believe that he is being serious about having real claim to any moon property (other than the landers, themselves). Am I the only one thinking he is just goofing off with such statements?
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Disputed (Score:2)
(We like da moon / and it is pa-ten-ted...)
Lord British can go suck a dick. (Score:1, Troll)
'Nuff said.
The moon is owned by a chilean. Period! (Score:2, Funny)
in English [wikipedia.org] and Spanish (more complete) [wikipedia.org]
Don't argue with me about Wikipedia not being the total truth.
Poor Fact Checking in Article (Score:2, Insightful)
Wow. No fact checking. Typical over-the-top-can't-get-the-facts-right journalism. The article tries to paint Lord British as laying claim to the entire moon, in the title, when in reality he's only even trying to claim at least the land on which the rover sits, and at most the land the rover crossed before it laid to rest.
The lawyer who was quoted when asked if he really owned the lander, is, quite frankly, covering her ass, as any good lawyer would do, when asked a question like that. What she says, that s
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But do the international laws that cover the "right of discovery" actually cover the moon or any other celestial body?
And is there any piece of land on Earth owned by a private individual but not part of any country?
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I hereby claim ownership of Uranus. (Score:1)
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Ow! STOP That!!!
What did I tell you? Larkin Decision! (Score:2)
Last time this came up I joked about the Larkin Decision... I didn't think he'd really look into laying claim to Lunar territory.. XD
(Larkin Decision wouldn't actually apply, though - owning a piece of gear on the Moon isn't enough, you have to live there...)
Moon Town (Score:3, Funny)
I believe he was referring to the town [rpgclassics.com] in Ultima III, which he really could lay claim to.
Also, couldn't you visit the moon in Ultima II? My memory of that is hazy. I know Ronald McDonald was in it at some point.
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In Ultima (I) you could end up space traveling.
Boy, that takes me back....1982, I believe.
vehicle ownership OK: but the parking spot? (Score:1)
Not yet his... (Score:3, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty [wikipedia.org]
As a citizen of a nation whom signed that treaty, his government's law is still held over him, and the UK law (by treaty) is that no nation or person can own the moon, it is there for all of mankind.
Maybe possibly he could do so if he has his citizenship canceled (Is that possible in the UK? I know it is in the USA but obviously that doesn't apply here)
However with no citizenship to pretty much any first world nation with space technology, that will leave him out in the cold for trying to claim his property. He also stands a good chance of getting shot down if he did somehow manage to launch from a country that does not have a space program.
(ZOMG, is that an incoming ICMB?! better not take any chances, press the red button!)
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Re:Not yet his... (Score:4, Insightful)
Contrary to his title, "Lord British" is not, in fact, British. He's actually American and even went to my high school in League City, Texas, USA.
Ahh, I was going by the Wikipedia article, which while not disagreeing with you, does state he was born in Cambridge England, then moved to Texas in the US.
Assuming that is true, he is/was indeed a British citizen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Garriott [wikipedia.org]
Even if he is a US citizen, or dual citizenship, both countries still have signed the treaty I mentioned and he would still fall under those laws.
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Idle stories from Britain... (Score:1)
Moonglow (Score:2)
PUBLIC NOTICE! (Score:2)
I have purchased the entire galaxy known as NGC 1365. If you're interested in renting a planet, the price is $1.8M/month US. If anyone settles there without my permission, expect to be sued.
Further, I am leasing all the space between the Earth and the Moon. If you'd like access to the Moon, the toll will be set at $750,000 US each way.
For ownership verification please see the public records division on Alpha Centauri.
Thank you.
The Case for Lunar Property Rights (Score:2)
According to an article in Popular Mechanics [popularmechanics.com] from the June 2008 issue:
With the space race in full flower, though, the real worry was national sovereignty. Both the United States and the Soviet Union wanted to reach the moon first but, in fact, each was more worried about what would happen if they arrived second. Fears that the competition might trigger World War III led to the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which was eventually ratified by 62 countries. According to article II of the treaty, "Outer Space, includi
No! It's Mine, not His (Score:2)
In 1967 I bought a square inch of the Moon for $1 from a street vendor in San Francisco; and I have the deed to prove it.
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You could have purchased a square inch of paper that could fly you to the moon instead :D
I keep telling him... (Score:1)
The moon already has a king.
He needs to move there to claim it (Score:2, Interesting)
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Not without violating international law, which prevents territorial claims on the moon.
No need to go to the moon - simply stopping their supply flights will do the trick nicely.
No, producing supplies locally is not an option
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Not without violating international law, which prevents territorial claims on the moon.
Sorry, but international law is only valid on or around planet Earth. You are welcome to cite examples where international law has been applied and/or enforced outside of L1.
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You are welcome to prove that international law is only valid in or around the planet Earth. The numerous signatories to the agreements about the moon don't seem to agree with you. (Not to mention it's hilariously funny you'd choose L1.)
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You are welcome to cite examples where international law has been applied and/or enforced outside of L1
Sure thing. The Outer Space Treaty requires parties to it to conduct their exploration in a way which "avoids harmful contamination" of celestial bodies. This requirement is one of several factors which inform NASA's current policy on preventing biological contamination of Mars and Europa.
So the Outer Space Treaty is being *applied* in contexts outside Earth orbit. Nobody's tried to *enforce* it yet, b
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"Not without violating international law, which prevents territorial claims on the moon."
You have a profound lack of insight on how laws come about.
He now owns as much of the moon as he can control. About as much as I do.
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You have a profound lack of a clue.
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Hint: When a nation becomes a signatory to a treaty, her citizens are thus bound as well.
Idiot.
Planet orbiting Earth (Score:1)
FTFA: "Last week, NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter found Lunokhod 2, sitting clearly on the planet’s surface."
First Pluto ceases to be a planet... Now the Moon is no longer a moon, but a planet... What is this solar system coming to?
Nice try, but... (Score:1)
Moongate (Score:2)
Which moon? (Score:2)
Trammel or Felluca?
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TFA is a misquote (Score:2)
Well, if he does own the moon... (Score:2)
Loony (Score:2)
And in further news Loony British still thinks Ultima is relvant...
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he bought his way into space with his ridiculous riches and he expects to be looked up to?
Well, if he's in space, then aren't we all looking up to him?
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Well, that depends.
If he is in orbit above the opposite side of the planet, we are actually looking down on him. Or when in the John we are even peeing down or poo-pooing down or .... you get the idea.
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Well, I hope so, IgnoramusMaximus. You know, if there's one thing I've learnt from being in the Army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cos it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment. Morale totally destroyed... by pooh-pooh!
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Even back in the day they weren't good RPGs. The ONLY thing they had going was that they were available on Apple II. That's it. That's the only reason Ultima sold a single copy. Ultima was a huge failure on all other platforms. People were so starved for software they'd put up with his lousy storylines and horrible interfaces. Oh, and you got a printed-on-cloth map. Of course, these were the nimnuls who were too stupid to spend less than a third of the money buying a Commodore 64, with it's far more impress