Environmental Enforcement Agents Targeting Guitars 379
tetrahedrassface writes "According to the Wall Street Journal, Federal agents again raided guitar maker Gibson this past week, seizing several pallets of wood and computer documents. At the heart of the issue is the wood that is being used in guitars and whether or not it comes from sustainable sources. The company insists it is being harassed and made to 'cry uncle' to the government's enforcement laws. The article notes that exotic fret and tone woods are protected in order to prevent the equivalent of 'blood diamond like trade,' but the ramifications now extend to guitar owners. If you play a vintage guitar, or a hand-built guitar made of old stock woods that were legally obtained years ago, you better not fly with it. John Thomas, a law professor at Quinnipiac University and a blues and ragtime guitarist, says, 'there's a lot of anxiety, and it's well justified.' Once upon a time, he would have taken one of his vintage guitars on his travels. Now, 'I don't go out of the country with a wooden guitar.'"
It's about time (Score:4, Insightful)
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As a side note - don't come to Sweden wearing shoes of crocodile skin or clothes of other endangered animals - even if it's inherited from your great grandmother.
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Crocodiles are endangered?
Re:It's about time (Score:5, Funny)
They sure are in Sweden!
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Re:It's about time (Score:4, Interesting)
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Sorry to be the one to tell you but...
We past that point a LONG LONG time ago.
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Or, in the case of Gibson, their politics. Martin uses the exact same wood through the exact same supplier but since they donate to the Democrat party they remain unraided.
Re:It's about time (Score:4, Informative)
". . . but since they donate to the Democratic party they remain unraided."
There. Fixed that for you.
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> What ever happend to the sentiment expressed in the 10th amendment, that "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."?
Time passed, the world changed and the idea became increasingly irrelevant.
The constitution says nothing about:
The Internet. We would not have an internet if it wasn't for federal funding and involvement. Individual network providers would have acted exactly like the cell
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Give me a break. There are unsolved murders in my city, but you know what? I still expect the cops to respond if I find my house has been broken into, even though they haven't solved all the problems of greater scale and importance. In real life, we can do more than one thing at a time, and "There are more important things to do" is not an excuse to put off every task in life that doesn't ma
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Yessir, I live in Newark, NJ and I am glad that they cleaned up [passaicriver.org] the Passaic River [epa.gov] and got rid of all of those other Superfund sites [cqs.com] in the Garden State.
BRB, going for a swim with the three-eyed fishes.
Re:It's about time (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd miss it. For every dollar that the EPA spends on stuff like this, or even on less frivolous but still apparently controversial things like protected rivers from over use, they spend dozens on things like keeping factories and power plants in check. Lets not forget what things were like before the EPA. CO2 and global warming would be the least of our problems without someone with the authority to prevent outright abuse of the ecosystem.
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they spend dozens on things like keeping factories and power plants in check.
It sure would be nice to still have some factories.
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Then we shouldn't have allowed the business class to move production to Asian and Mexico.
It could have been prevented, but we were told that information and service jobs would carry the USA into the future.
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The part you're omitting is the one where the streetlights had to be kept on 24 hours a day in Pittsburgh, and the river caught fire in Cleveland.
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Yes, poster is right, most of the Eastern Bloc countries are toxic waste dumps now. In communist countries the gov controls everything that it gives a shit about. Unfortunately, what factories did with their waste and what people threw into rivers wasn't among those things.
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The people living next to a little place called Rocky Flats might have a different opinion...
Re:It's about time (Score:5, Informative)
It's about time the EPA had its funding cut. There's nine billion [epa.gov] that few would miss.
Why not cut the Department of Defense or the the FAA instead? I suggest this because they have just as much to do with the Fish and Wildlife Service as the EPA.
In case I am being too subtle, the FWS is not part of the EPA. In fact the service predates the EPA by about 100 years.
LAND OF THE FREE? (Score:5, Insightful)
Innocent until proven guilty?
Burden of evidence on the accuser?
Hope you enjoyed the "War on Drugs". Seizure logic is now your new normal.
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Shutting down an American company is helping no one. They will build them in Mexico if this keeps up.
So rather than 'no one' it would definitely seem to be helping Mexicans.
I'm sure that foreign CEOs cry themselves to sleep when they see the US government shutting down US companies to 'save the environment'.
Actually, maybe they do; with tears of laughter.
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There are loads of guitars built in Mexico, the imported into the USA. The exotic woods used by guitar makers cause deforestation in sensitive areas.
But the advice of not bringing your old guitar back into the company after a trip is total bullshit and a scare tactic to defend Gibson (maybe Fender, Taylor, and others, too). They should be ashamed.
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That's OK. Keep this going and - of course - there will be no American market to afford such things. Big business has already planned thing along these lines, for some time now.
There are new, Asian middle-classes to exploit, for a couple of decades. It's called "Corporate Crop Rotation". It keeps populations insecure and dependent, rather than empowered and questioning.
Meanwhile, we can play on ANYTHING!
http://www.cigarboxnation.com/photo/pizzicasso-bass-1 [cigarboxnation.com]
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Yes, but it's a lot easier to bribe a Mexican official to give a record of properly imported wood.
Re:LAND OF THE FREE? (Score:4, Insightful)
I believe the point is that it should be the states responsibility to prove that the guitar is made with illegally harvested wood, not my responsibility to prove that it isn't. For the most part, customs/immigration has never really operated on any kind of presumption of innocence and the current climate isn't likely to make that any better.
Re:LAND OF THE FREE? (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't even a compliance issue. The U.S. government objects to the importation of unfinished wood (raw imports), while Gibson has imported finished wood from India. However, the U.S. contends that the wood is not finished ENOUGH, although the Indian government is quite satisfied with the paperwork on their end (no objection and considers the wood properly finished).
So although all the paperwork is technically in order, the US government is on a massive fishing expedition to force Gibson into 'compliance' even though they haven't broken any laws.
Indian article here:
http://m.timesofindia.com/PDATOI/articleshow/9756435.cms
This reminds me of the way the government has sent those mortgage liars to jail:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/business/26nocera.html
Pop the little guys because all the big fish are too hard to catch. Government at work for you.
Asset forfeiture (Score:5, Informative)
Forget it - this is asset forfeiture. The feds already raided Gibson once, back in 2009. [justia.com] They took a lot of ebony, but never filed charges. Gibson is still fighting the asset forfeiture case, and the burden of proof is exactly wrong: Gibson must prove their innocence of any wrong-doing. The feds want to keep the stuff; it would be auctioned off, and they would get to keep the proceeds. One of the theories explaining this second raid is that the feds are pissed that Gibson hasn't just rolled over on the first case.
Asset forfeiture is perverse: you aren't charged with anything at all - your *property* is. The Gibson case is entitled "United States of America v. Ebony Wood in Various Forms". There is no presumption of innocence, because your property isn't a person, and anyway isn't being charged with a crime. The fact that this is naked theft is apparently beside the point - it is a very lucrative racket for law enforcement agencies at all levels.
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Exactly my point.
The precedent for these "laws" were set by the so-called "war on drugs".
When a few people claimed that that this was the first step on a slippery slope towards fascism, they were decried as shrill, bleeding-hearts. The mainstream-media equivalent of being "Godwinned" into humiliation or silence.
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To whom. Under what circumstance?
Import tariffs were the principal source of US Federal revenues until the early 20th century. These were supplanted by Fiat Currency and Income Taxes.
Income was replaced by DEBT.
But, you'd rather be a slave in Nike's with a Samsung TV, than free?
Dwight, is that you? (Score:2)
I thought Matthew Broderick already took care of these guys years ago? Did they get out of prison?
Gibson Forums (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Gibson Forums (Score:5, Informative)
Not mentioned on the forums:
For more info: The Affidavit (PDF warning) [worldnow.com].
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And somehow this elite made the shipment go through 4 middlemen who magically happened to fill the customs paperwork in the way most likely to get the stuff through the respective customs while concealing the end customer for the goods. And magically, this elite made sure that the incriminating goods would end up in Gibson's warehouse. All that to incriminate an honest to god, republican-donating, bastion of American entrepreneurship.
Or maybe you believe that the most logical/efficient order procedure for G
This is why environmentalism has a bad name (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, this is absolutely ridiculous. Arresting someone, fining them, and taking their guitar because they can't trace every last component it's made of? Or fining someone $17,000 with clearly grandfather ivory keys (which everyone acknowledges are legitimate to own) simply because his paperwork was a little out of order? FFS, we wonder why our world is so fucked up when artists (some actually talented people) are forced to put up with shit like that. Hell, I bet taking a Stradivarius out of the country would probably get it "seized" and a major fine levied on you, simply because it would be absolutely impossible to trace all its components.
All this in the name of "environmentalism." Why the hell is a guitar or antique musical instrument even considered a piece of "flora or fauna" anyways? Are we gonna have to register cotton shirts next, to make sure slavery wasn't involved in the manufacture? As a bit of a musician myself (I play violin as a hobby), these sorts of things really piss me off. Laws shouldn't be created to force people to prove the legality of what they are carrying. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? In this case, it looks like you need paperwork proving you're innocence or you are automatically guilty. Also, I don't think the wood used in guitars is a major contributor to deforestation. In fact, I think that ranks right down there as the least possible thing they could worry about. What's next, making sure pipes are made of sustainable sources of wood?
Sure, I know poaching of elephants is a major problem. This sort of BS isn't helping the cause any though.
Re:This is why environmentalism has a bad name (Score:5, Funny)
FFS, we wonder why our world is so fucked up when artists (some actually talented people) are forced to put up with shit like that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't many of the most famous musical 'artists' been demanding that we must 'do something' for the environment for decades now?
Well, now we're doing something, and they should be happy.
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They said "do something to help the environment" not "do something that make it look like your helping the environment without actually producing any measurable benefit". Is there an phrase equivalent to security theater for environmentalism? Greenwashing maybe?
Re:This is why environmentalism has a bad name (Score:5, Informative)
Or fining someone $17,000 with clearly grandfather ivory keys (which everyone acknowledges are legitimate to own) simply because his paperwork was a little out of order?
Saying that the guy had his paperwork "a little out of order" is disingenuous. The person in question was trying to import 11 pianos, and had declared that there was no Ivory on them. However, that was only true because he had removed the Ivory keys and hidden them in his luggage, where they were uncovered by customs inspectors. And not only that, his company had asked officials about the importation requirements prior to this, so he clearly knew what he was doing, and was caught red-handed.
http://www.justice.gov/usao/gan/press/2011/03-09-11.html
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The rest of the world has their share of retardedness. Don't blindly hate the US without taking a look at your country's closeted skeletons.
Seriously... (Score:3)
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Dear Music Industry (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems as if for years, you have been using the BanHammer of the Government to force others to comply with your agenda of increased control and profits. Now, that you have gotten what you asked for, why are you unhappy? The environmentalists are getting their agenda pushed by the government, just like yours. Why on Earth would you be surprised. Ohh that's right, you artsy types haven't heard of the law of unintended consequences. Congratulations, welcome to the club of people who realize Government interference in everything isn't a good thing. I hope you enjoy getting what you asked for.
Sincerely,
Everyone else.
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Wait a minute.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Manufacturing jobs not being exported. (Score:2)
This is about India not wanting manufacturing jobs exported not about environmentalism.
Hysteria! Panic! (Score:3)
Fact: Suspected illegal materials seized from manufacturer.
Article speculation: guitars will be seized by Nazi enforcers from individuals.
Warning flag that article is inflammatory: use of "artsy do-gooders only too eager to tell others what kind of light bulbs they have to buy"
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Fact: Anyone can be suspected of ANYTHING.
Fact: These laws are not created to protect. They are created to control and convict. They are not expected to be followed. Create enough laws and everyone is a criminal.
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Fact: Suspected illegal materials seized from manufacturer. Article speculation: guitars will be seized by Nazi enforcers from individuals.
Warning flag that article is inflammatory: use of "artsy do-gooders only too eager to tell others what kind of light bulbs they have to buy"
They coulda been a little more subtle with that. The WSJ has always had a slant, but they were better at hiding it before Rupert.
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What's is even worse is the level of manufactured internet outrage that drowns out any factual content. Try to do a search to find some unbiased information and facts and 99% of what you find are the initial biased articles and the massive flood of propaganda fed from the biased outlets to all their minion blog sites.
And the sad part, slashdot is becoming part of this lib
The Economic Stupidity of (Some) Environmentalists (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's ignore for a second that the government cares about how an Indian government interprets and Indian law for an American domestic manufacturer. Here's the utter stupidity...
If you have something like ivory or some rare wood, if you make the value of it next to nothing, legitimate businesses will have no incentive to have that resource conserved.
Let's say you are in some rainforest and you have this really rare tree that is valuable for its wood. If legitimate businesses can use it and it has value, you can find a way to harvest it and make sure more grows. If it has no value, you plow the thing over and grow some crops.
The same goes for different animal species as well.
Do you think elephants will stop being hunted because of ivory bans? If you allow a certain percentage of elephants to be culled, I'm pretty sure a group of people will make sure there are plenty of elephants.
The Economic Stupidity of (most) Economists (Score:2)
Like most Economists, you're assuming that people make long-term, rational decisions when deciding about purchases or actions. They don't. They mostly go for the immediate fix, for the immediate pleasure rather than the delayed one, etc.
And that's even ignoring the fact that in some situations, even culling a small percentage of the population puts the entire species at risk.
Maaaattt Daaaaamon (Score:2)
This is fucking ridiculous (Score:3)
This seizure suit that I read was filed highlights one of the ways that they do an end run around the Constitution. The suit isn't "United States v Gibson Guitar Corporation", it's "United States v. Ebony Wood In Various Forms". They don't file suit against the legal entity, but they file suit against the property to be seized itself. Someone please explain to me how that's Constitutional, seeing that inanimate wood cannot defend against itself.
It's called in rem jurisdiction (Score:2, Informative)
Since you are obviously expert enough in Constitutional law to believe this lawsuit is unconstitutional, it surprises me that you have never heard of in rem jurisdiction, which is one of the oldest concepts in Anglo-American common law and naval law.
Not exactly... (Score:5, Informative)
The feds claim against Gibson is not that they are using wood from non sustainable sources, as stated above. Gibson has clear documentation showing that it is.The feds maintain that the issue is that the wood was not "finished" by Indian workers, as (possibly) required by Indian law.
Incidentally, the Indian government is not involved.
It simply ain't that simple ... (Score:2)
If they were talking about an endangered animal, particularly an easily recognisable and cute species, I'm sure that quite a few people would be changing their tone. The problem is that trees just don't have that huggable demeanour and very few people could tell the difference between a cherry and a peach tree unless it was bearing fruit. I also think that people have no conception of how long it takes a lot of plants to mature to the point where they can be harvested. The trees in your yard may grow fro
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Nature "endangers" plenty of animals without our assistance at all. Who's fighting for those animals?
Every bit of Flora and Fauna? (Score:2)
The tangled intersection of international laws is enforced through a thicket of paperwork. Recent revisions to 1900's Lacey Act require that anyone crossing the U.S. border declare every bit of flora or fauna being brought into the country. One is under "strict liability" to fill out the paperwork—and without any mistakes.
I guess I should read the full Lacey Act as amended, because I could be traveling with a lot of flora and fauna. My clothes, luggage, shoes, food . . . I assume that my shirt is made from non-endangered cotton and not something else, but I sure can't prove that. I could show the label, if it's not worn off, but I have no documentation of the provenance of the fabric. Are those pearl buttons? Endangered abalone? A coral necklace?
And that's before worrying about the laws of every other country -- which might
Some things to consider (Score:3, Interesting)
CF Martin IV, a well-known contributor to Obama and the DNC, also makes guitars from Indian Rosewood, and is one of Gibson's main competitors in the acoustic guitar space.
The CEO of Gibson is a vocal republican running a non-union shop.
Gibson is being targeted. CF Martin is not.
You do the math.
I'm happy about this (Score:3, Insightful)
Ebony is one of the slowest growing woods in the world, and it's absolutely central to the incredibly fragile and unique Madagascar ecosystem. As long as there is a illegal market in it, somebody will have the incentive to permanently destroy that ecosystem. What's worse, too few will have the incentive to start sustainable ebony plantations. Somebody needs to close the loopholes, flash some badges and make the punishment hurt, or we will completely destroy Madagascar's forests before we transition to sustainable ebony. We need strict laws if we are to make the transition now.
I can understand why people complain about documentation regarding older instruments, but if there were no such requirement, anybody could just say "Oh, this guitar? Yeah, it's old, the laws don't apply to it!" - which would be a gigantic loophole. Authorities need to have the right to say "Prove that it's old". It sounds like this system needs streamlining, but it's absolutely right that we have it in place.
By the way, I own a bass guitar with an ebony fingerboard and I'm certainly not an opponent of musicians who want the finest instruments. But I'm also an environmentalist, and I don't want musicians to be responsible for destroying the third world that they never visit.
Happened to surfboard manufacturers 5 years ago (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.surfermag.com/features/clarkfoam/ [surfermag.com]
Back in 2005, the average price for a new surfboard jumped about 50% (~$400 to ~$600 a board) and that price hasn't come down on anything but generic shapes (i.e. Costco surfboards) since. Now our surfboard blanks are lower quality, come from companies in China, who have no qualms about dumping toxic chemicals into the environment, and they cost about the same because there is no competition other than a few colluding companies. A LOT of independent American surfboard shapers (aka small business owners) have been pushed out because they can't get blanks reliably in small numbers like they could directly from Clark in the past.
As I recall, when Clark shutdown he basically said he'd been dealing with these people (government authorities) for 30 years and couldn't continue to carry this industry on his shoulders or his bank account anymore. The US economy will suffer, likely forever, and we will lose art and innovation, but it wasn't his burden to carry alone. And he walked away. Probably surfing on a remote island paradise somewhere...
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Because you're entering another country and their rules are taking effect? Is it really that hard to see?
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Re:Guilty until proven innocent (Score:5, Interesting)
Lagging behind? The issue here is a law that's two years old, stating that importers must abide by all of the laws of the country from which they are sourcing the materials. Sounds like a good idea on the face of it, but unfortunately, it's very much open to interpretation.
There are several problems here:
1. The government has confiscated over $1M of materials, *and not given a reason for it*
2. The government did the same thing two years ago re: Madagascar woods, and the trial is still dragging on due to government dragging its feet, missing deadlines, requesting stays, etc.
3. The government has claimed that *any* guitar sold by Gibson can be construed as obstruction of justice, and that this can be applied to the BUYER and the RETAILER. So, in other words, they've threatened criminal charges against anyone who buys a Gibson guitar. Because they have not stated a specific infraction, Gibson does not know which guitars this may apply to, and so must assume *all* of them.
4. Gibson assumes that this has to do with an Indian law stating that if any finishing work is done in India, that ALL finishing work must be done in India. Gibson buys half-finished fingerboard blanks from their Indian suppliers, but has all of the proper sign-offs and paperwork to show that this was approved by the government.
5. The government raided a factory using fully-armed SWAT team. This alone is a disturbing trend that must be stopped. They weren't raiding a pot house or a meth lab, they're raiding a guitar factory. Suits, pens and clipboards were much more appropriate than kevlar and automatic weapons.
Here's a video of the CEO talking about the raid. It's a bit long, but the guy seems genuinely baffled as to what could be the cause of the raid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_-taqM5Sk0 [youtube.com]
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Re:Big Deal over nothing. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yup - because all transactions are reversible.
Everything is a luxury.
All markets are infinite.
Regulations are never ever ever corrections to the market. People are not part of the market.
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When their guy Dick Nixon is the one that proposed, and signed it in to law.
He also supported price and wage controls. If he was still alive the Democrats would be running him as a hard-left candidate.
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He also supported the Clean Air Act and OSHA.
And he also proposed, in 1974, universal health care in America by providing government funding to private employer-provided insurance plans. Sound familiar?
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When you look at what Nixon passed, he was the most environmentally pro-active president since Theodore Roosevelt.
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I love hearing left-wingers think that Richard Nixon is a right-winger because he has a "R" after his name.
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Re:I love hearing right-wingers complain about EPA (Score:4, Insightful)
Nixon certainly was a right-winger. He may not have been a fascist like most of the current right-wingers, but he was definitely right-wing.
Fascists were left-wing. And in what universe are price and wage controls now 'right wing' policies? If Obama was proposing them people would be calling him a commy.
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In what universe were fascists left-wing?
This one?
I note that you ignored my question about price and wage controls.
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However, challenge accepted. The reason Republicans used to support things like 'cap and trade' and price and wage controls was because the Republican party wasn't always an extreme right-wing party. Republicans have moved so far to the right, that you make Nixon seem like a lefty. It's called the Overton Window, look it up.
Re:I love hearing right-wingers complain about EPA (Score:4, Interesting)
Price and wage controls, economic planning, progressive taxation, ceding individual property rights to the central government, no right to bear arms, comprehensive social welfare.
These some of the original cornerstones of fascist ideology. I fail to see how they square with the American right-wing (note that militarism, nationalism and etho-centrism, the other pillars of fascism, plague communist and socialist countries, also). In any event, early fascists called themselves both anti-marxist, anti-capitalist, and anti-clerical. That claim seems accurate; making most modern uses of "fascist" as an epithet ridiculous.
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You should read up on the Italian fascist movement, and actually read something about those Germans. (Hint: the Nazis weren't le
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When their guy Dick Nixon is the one that proposed, and signed it in to law.
And this is not even about the EPA . . .
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Finally I understand what "underground music scene" means.
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"fuck all of you that vote these fuckers into office"
This argument feels kind of empty in a country with two parties that both suck.
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I would demand all citizens with wooden guitars have their piece audited. If it fails the test, we shred the wood and put them into a giant pile. And the end, we burn the wood in a giant bonfire.
Right! What are they going to do with the seized wood? They can't make trees out of it! I understand going after a major guitar manufacturer, as their supply chain has a direct impact on the harvest of endangered species. However, if a guitar is already sold, and in the hands of the consumer, seizing it has no impact on the harvest of endangered wood.
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That wouldn't work, no "enviro-nazi" would dump that much carbon and other pollutants into the air. They'd probably bury it or send it to China or something.
Oh really? http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/ecoterrorism.asp [adl.org]
Re:Please go after Gibson, not my Gibson (Score:4, Insightful)
I think most sensible people would agree that Gibson should have to prove the rare wood used in their factory was legally obtained.
No, people should expect the accuser to prove their accusation, not the defendant.
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I love it when wingnuts try to tell us we should have voted for the octogenarian and rent-a-nitwit. The fact is the we didn't vote for the better of the two; most of us voted for the least worse. True, Obama hasn't lived up to what he promised, let alone what we hoped he'd do, but we're still better off.
Re:Musicians (Score:4, Funny)
Cthulhu in 2012. Why settle for the lesser evil?
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True, Obama hasn't lived up to what he promised, let alone what we hoped he'd do, but we're still better off.
With over a 9% unemployment rate (that's actually closer to 18%) I think there are millions of Americans who would disagree.
Ah yes. Blame everything on the current president. That always makes sense.
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Exactly. If there is one thing I've learned from the internet, it is that nothing is Obama's fault.
To be more specific:
Everything bad about America today, during Obama's presidency, is Bush's fault.
Everything bad about America during Bush's presidency... was Bush's fault.
Everything bad about America during Clinton's presidency was also Bush's fault. He has a time machine.
Re:Musicians (Score:5, Informative)
This article is fear-mongering. Gibson is suspected of importing illegal goods (in this case, ebony, if the article is to be believed). The CEO of Gibson says they didn't do anything wrong. There is an investigation.
Note: There was never a musician stopped by US customs for travelling with an "illegal" instrument.
Furthermore, the article doesn't give even a moment's thought to why the wood Gibson is accused of using is illegal to import, and why the government agency is required to investigate.
There is no threat to musicians. End of story.
Re:Musicians (Score:4, Informative)
I'd suggest Importing, Exporting or Travelling with Musical Instruments [bluegrasswales.org] for more more information about the restrictions that impact traveling musicians. While it's a bit UK centric, the CITES rules apply here too. As for the idea that the concerns here are just fear-mongering, try taking an older instrument made with ivory somewhere and watch how that turns out, as the most extreme example. Ebony isn't on the CITES list, but there's plenty of other materials appearing in many vintage guitars that are.
Re:Musicians (Score:4, Informative)
The wood isn't illegal. India is protesting because they insist that the wood be processesed, in India, by Indian workers, before Gibson gets it. The state department is enforcing India's claim.
This isn't a matter of ecology, it's just business as usual.
I'm a semi-pro guitarist/musician. This stuff impacts me directly.
I actually called the Indian Embassy. They say they did not file any complaints to anyone about the rosewood, and do not support the raid on Gibson.
Further, the rosewood in question *is* finished into pre-cut & polished fingerboard slabs, was inspected & OK'd for export by Indian authorities, and for import by US Customs (Gibson ain't sneaking this stuff into the country in jungle-built subs, after all, like cocaine!).
AFAICT, Gibson is also the only major US guitar maker that's in a "right-to-work" state. Gibson has also contributed to Republican campaigns. All major US guitar makers that I know of use Indian rosewood and other CITES regulated materials, yet Gibson is the only maker that's been raided (twice since '09!) and had guitars and wood seized.
Gibson is in trouble because the DOJ, in it's infinite wisdom, thinks that the finished fretboard pieces they got from India, although they were deemed OK for export by India and OK'd for import by US Customs aren't, in the F&W's/DOJ's opinion, "finished enough" according to the *F&W'sDOJ's interpretation* of Indian export laws (NOT India's interpretation of THEIR OWN LAW!!...they filed no complaint and don't support the F&W's/DOJ's actions)...and therefor in violation of the amended-in-2008 Lacey Act despite all statements and evidence to the contrary, even from India.
The first raid on Gibson in '09, as far as I can determine, was based upon statements made by either F&W and/or the DOJ to a judge, asserting that they believed some portion/part of the chain-of-custody paperwork was forged, in order to obtain a warrant to raid & search Gibson facilities. So far, NO CHARGES have been filed regarding the '09 raid & seizure, and the DOJ has had the judge delay indefinitely any further court proceedings, leaving some $500K-$1M in guitars & materials seized from Gibson in limbo.
Not necessarily that *Gibson* forged, had forged, or knew of any forging of any documents (could have been any of the suppliers/warehousers/transporters in the chain), but according to the letter of the amended portion of the Lacey Act, *who* forged them, why, or who had knowledge of any irregularity was immaterial, and the Act as written didn't protect Gibson (or any other US company or individual) for criminal or civil liability for acts outside their knowledge or control...called "strict liability"...which was one of the things those opposed to passage of the amendment to the Lacey Act were against due to it's unfairness.
Here's just one example of Lacey Act injustice that put an innocent man in jail for 8 years!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHvJ6ld_Mic [youtube.com]
Here's a piece on the difficulties that individual musicians now face in traveling with guitars and other wood instruments because of CITES: http://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/magazine/guitar-lover%E2%80%99s-guide-cites-conservation-treaty [fretboardjournal.com]
Here's a couple of links to Gibson regarding the raids:
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/ceo-outrage-0826-2011/ [gibson.com]
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/gibson-0825-2011/ [gibson.com]
I'm not against conservation at all. However, the jack-booted ham-handedness with which the laws are written, interpreted, and enforced should be an outrage to anyone.
Strat
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That they're both misguided. And should be voting libertarian. (small "l" not big "L")
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Oh noes you blamed Bush! He hasn't been president since 2008 you know! STOP BLAMING EVERYTHING ON BUSH! LEAVE BUSH ALOOONE! T_T
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