Coffee-Powered Car Breaks World Record 174
MrSeb writes "A bunch of tea-drinking northern Brits have set a new land speed record for a gasification-powered vehicle, fueled only by coffee beans. The car is called The Coffee Car, and it was created by the Teesdale Conservation Volunteers of Durham, England. The previous gasification-powered speed record — held by some Americans called 'Beaver Energy' — was a mere 47mph, fueled by wood pellets. The Coffee Car averaged no less than 66.5mph and was granted a Guinness World Record in return. Gasification is a process in which any organic fuel is turned into 'syngas,' a mixture of carbon dioxide/monoxide, hydrogen, and methane which can be used in conventional internal combustion engines. The Coffee Car was created with the sole intention of proving that renewable/green energy sources can power cars — and it looks like it succeeded!"
Works with coal too (Score:2, Interesting)
There's a lot more and cheaper coal than "renewable / green" sources (previously called "food").
Just sayin.
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Its Green because in theory when you regrow the plants they will absorb the CO2 that was emitted.
However Humans being as we are, we will probably cut down forests to make room for more of these plants and still end up with a net gain in CO2 in the atmosphere.
If there was a good easy solution we would have come up with it now. The problem is every energy source you will have to make some sort of trade off. The key is trying to at least diversify our energy sources so we are dividing our trade-offs and not
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Even if you cut down a forest, plant-based fuels are still carbon neutral, since a more or less fixed amount of carbon is available at the surface/in the atmosphere within this geological period. Fossil fuels add carbon to the entire system by releasing carbon formerly trapped deep in rock formations.
Desert (Score:3)
"Even if you cut down a forest, ..." ... oops ...
Or it will simply become a desert
You don't want to cut down a whole forest.
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Re:Works with coal too (Score:4, Informative)
Um, I think there is, although you might be making some obscure point I don't understand because I don't spend all day on anti AGW sites:
Climate during the Carboniferous Period
from the fine article:
If you're talking about something else I'd sincerely be interested in reading about it.
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Here is the chart that shows CO2 levels compared to global temps: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image277.gif [geocraft.com]
You'll notice that during the Ordovician period, CO2 was well over 4000ppm, and sometimes upwards of 5000ppm, yet the temperatures near the end of that period were right at modern levels.
Also, if you'll carefully look at the CO2 levels vs. the temps during the Carboniferous period, CO2 had been precipitously dropping for ~50 million years, bottoming out at around 350 ppm... but loo
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You'll notice that during the Ordovician period, CO2 was well over 4000ppm, and sometimes upwards of 5000ppm, yet the temperatures near the end of that period were right at modern levels.
Correlation != Causation
That's why the people studying the climate have to build complicated models. CO2 is just one of the many inputs to those models. Stripping away just the CO2 input and trying to devine its effect on the environment through correlation alone would be like (car analogy coming...) monitoring only spark plug current and trying to correlate that with tire temperature.
there is absolutely no proof that such would endanger life on Earth in any way,
Probably not, but humans are awful at change. If people's property goes away or becomes suddenly unproductive or uninhabitab
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Correlation != Causation
Agreed, however I never argued the opposite... in fact, the entire point of my post was to show that we don't even have correlation on CO2 vs. Temperature, let alone causation. All those same "many inputs" you mentioned that affected the Paleozoic and Mesozoic climate are affecting us today and it is grossly premature to suggest that the infinitesimal human contribution to atmospheric CO2 causes the climate of our planet to change in the slightest.
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Agreed, however I never argued the opposite... in fact, the entire point of my post was to show that we don't even have correlation on CO2 vs. Temperature, let alone causation
Okay then, causation != correlation.
You do not need correlation to have causation. That's the whole point of building the models.
All those same "many inputs" you mentioned that affected the Paleozoic and Mesozoic climate are affecting us today and it is grossly premature to suggest that the infinitesimal human contribution to atmospheric CO2 causes the climate of our planet to change in the slightest.
Ten or fifteen years ago, I would have straight-up agreed with you. There was way too much error in the models, with some of them almost as likely to predict cooling as warming. It's not premature anymore - the models have improved, and AFAIK, there is not a model in existence which comes to a contrary conclusion. Surely if the human contribution were as infinitesimal as you claim
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Oh look another "informed skeptic."
CO2/temperature lag:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/04/the-lag-between-temp-and-co2/ [realclimate.org]
Some articles on periods with unusual CO2/temperature differences:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-higher-in-past.htm [skepticalscience.com]
http://www.skepticalscience.com/CO2-has-been-higher-in-the-past.html [skepticalscience.com]
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The condescending attitude does not advance your cause any.
I am familiar with the apologist explanations for these incongruities, but find their explanations lacking. First, it does not address periods of lowering CO2 levels and rising temperatures (see, for example, the entire Cretaceous period).
Additionally, let us take into account that CO2 only partially contributes to global temperatures, one would still think that when CO2 levels plummet from 4000 ppm in the mid-Devonian to just ~350 ppm in the early
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Wow... it must be a very well established science if 13 years completely invalidates all figures. Fascinating. Oh, wait... nevermind, that page was updated in 2009 and the source site was updated in 2003, so at worst, 8 years.
It is kind of hard to find a site that shows geologic time scale CO2 levels... I guess it's because it causes people to question the popular AGW models...
but here's a different chart from 2002: http://www.biocab.org/carbon_dioxide_geological_timescale.html [biocab.org] (site updated in 2007) It loo
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Besides all that though, I wonder how much of the CO2 which is naturally in the atmosphere/surface wasn't there way back when the coal and oil carbon were. Released by volcanoes from even deeper in the Earth perhaps?
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There are records. Check into the massive deposits of limestone all over the planet. This was the sequestering of CO2 by zooplankton that grew shells, died, became chalk and then were compressed and heating over time into limestone and marble. Think Carbonates. That's were a bunch of the CO2 went.
Today we have a huge opportunity to use carbon for all kinds of interesting purposes. We also have some very promising technologies to sequester it from the atmosphere. A U.S. university wants to be able to create
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So, bring back steam cars, just this time instead of coal they would be powered by wood.
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Wouldn't work...unless EVERYONE was mandated to only use these.
This 'record setting' vehicle...set the record with ONLY an avg speed of about 62mph??!?
You trying driving only 62mph on any roads around where I've lived and you will get mowed down. Hell, that's the speeds you see through neighborhoods with children in them....
But seriously...that is not very quick...most people on main artieries through the cities I've
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62mph is almost 100km/h. In my country the maximum speed limit on a highway is 130, some are 100, most inter-city roads are 90 and inside the city/town/village it is 50. Some people go 10km/h over the limit but more than that and you risk getting your photo taken or getting stopped by the police and having to pay a fine.
Still, steam cars in the 1910s managed to get 100km/h, maybe one designed with modern tools and materials in mind could go faster? Steam is good that it can use anything that burns hot enoug
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The back can be fitted with a bulldozer blade with spikes attached. The vehicle will be partially propelled by the force of idiots on cellphones colliding with it. If you drop the remains off at the recycler, driving the car might yield a net profit.
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Brilliant! This could give electric cars practically unlimited highway range!
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An average speed of 62mph is extremely fast. People drive for weeks without hitting 60mph if they live in the city. You could hit bursts of 200mph and still have an average speed of 62mph. I know that you know what "average" means, Cayenne8.
Are you really saying that where you live if you drive the posted limit that other drivers are going to ram your ca
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Are you really saying that where you live if you drive the posted limit that other drivers are going to ram your car?
Depending on where you are and what time of day it is, driving at the speed limit in the US can be extremely dangerous. It might not feel dangerous to the person going that speed, but there is a huge chain reaction of sudden stops and aggressive lane changes going on behind them.
If you think about it, the speed limit doesn't matter at all - only the average speed of the drivers. Being a standard deviation or so outside of the mean is probably a problem either way. There's something called "traffic waves" an
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I can't imagine any city driver needed to get to 65mph coming off a stop light.
For city drivers, a top speed of 65mph would be no problem, especially if it could accelerate to 65 in 2.5 seconds. Fast acceleration is
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I can't imagine any city driver needed to get to 65mph coming off a stop light.
LOL, sorry I didn't make myself clear.
A car that can only get up to 65MPH probably is very slow getting to even 35MPH.
Fast acceleration is more important for passing and keeping up with traffic than a high top speed.
Exactly.
We had a national speed limit of 55mph for 20 years, and if memory serves, the world did not come to an end.
Did average speeds change much? I feel like I still set cruise control around 70-74MPH, even with the 65MPH speed limits - same as I did at 55MPH (though then I had to tail someone or risk getting a ticket). This study [slashdot.org] is the one that often gets cited - an oldie but goodie. But then this site [saferoads.org] lists a bunch of stats to the contrary - so I dunno. All I know is that I'm a lot happier a
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Me too, but apparently enough of the people who care about their licenses (like truck drivers) drove 55 that the consumption of fuel went down significantly.
When you've got a powerful political force intent on convincing people that any regulation is bad, I doubt anything like that's gonna happen.
But I sure would love to be able to hook up to an I
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When you've got a powerful political force intent on convincing people that any regulation is bad, I doubt anything like that's gonna happen.
People will completely ignore the politicians and their ideological madness if DOT saves them 30 seconds on their commute :)
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Re:Works with coal too (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would one want to use dirty old coal?
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It also works with cellulose
If cellulose ever became valuable, farmers would grow switchgrass where food formerly was grown - in general, if you have to farm it, it is still competing with food and raising the price of food.
Why would one want to use dirty old coal?
Only economic reasons. It's hard to beat "dig rock out of otherwise fallow ground" for cost.
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It also works with cellulose (the parts of the plant you don't eat). No strip mining, no tailings, no net CO2 (assuming you keep growing the plant, you are just cycling the CO2).
You mean that same cellulose left in the fields by farmers to control erosion, reduce fertilizer costs, and control weeds?
Does anyone else see a problem with this logic?
Considering that most synthetic fertilizer uses natural gas as feedstock and/or fuel would it not be simpler and more energy efficient to leave the cellulose in the fields and burn the natural gas in our cars? I've seen what corn ethanol has done to food and fuel prices. I don't want to live through what doubling down on that will do to my
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Yes but coal pollutes more, so the whole concept of being green is gone with that remark.
"Gasification" (Score:4, Informative)
Just for those who don't know. This was very popular during and after WW-II in Germany as gas supplies were next to non-existent. In these gasification systems, you could burn pretty much anything combustible. Wood was popular a popular choice. It's a very old technology.
Not 100% related, but the original Diesel engine, ran on peanut oil. Fossil fuels only got used later in Diesel technology.
Myth (Score:3, Informative)
Diesel designed his engine around coal dust.
Someone else ran it on peanut oil for exhibition in Paris.
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Diesel designed his engine around coal dust.
That's incorrect. From the wikipedia article [wikipedia.org]:
"It is often reported that Diesel designed his engine to run on peanut oil. Diesel stated in his published papers, "at the Paris Exhibition in 1900 (Exposition Universelle) there was shown by the Otto Company a small diesel engine, which, at the request of the French Government ran on Arachide (earth-nut or pea-nut) oil (see biodiesel), and worked so smoothly that only a few people were aware of it. The engine was constructed for using mineral oil, and was then w
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http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=9773 [pistonheads.com]
The first experimental engine was built in 1893 and used high pressure air to blast the coal dust into the combustion chamber. While the prototype blew its cylinder head off but, four years later, Diesel produced a reasonably reliable engine. His ideas for an engine where the combustion would be carried out within the cylinder were published in 1893, one year after he applied for his first patent.
Further developments using coal dust as fuel failed. A compres
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Here is the link to the WWII use of the technology. I was going to post the info, but you beat me to it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas [wikipedia.org]
History of wood gas (Score:2)
This was very popular during and after WW-II in Germany as gas supplies were next to non-existent. In these gasification systems, you could burn pretty much anything combustible. Wood was popular a popular choice. It's a very old technology.
You are correct... see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator#History [wikipedia.org]. Wood gas was also used to fuel vehicles in WWII Japan.
"The Coffee Car was created with the sole intention of proving that renewable/green energy sources can power cars — and it looks l
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I wonder if it would be possible to set up a dual-fuel (bio)diesel/gasification engine. That would be the ultimate Zombie Apocalypse Vehicle power plant. No diesel available? No problem, just toss in some (re)killed zombie parts!
Next step... (Score:5, Funny)
Mr. Fusion!
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(Score:3, Insightful)
This is where I need a mod (+1, Wish It Were Insightful).
It's not that green... (Score:2)
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The article is not clear on this, but the site it references (coffeecar.org) states the fuel is spent coffee grounds. So, it's maybe a little greener than using whole raw beans. At least it's using something that would otherwise go into the garbage, or my garden.
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I'd think that, after proof of concept stage, they would look for a good fuel that could be converted at low cost and low environmental impact. One biofuel candidate I've heard of is Kudzu. It's an invasive vine species that's taken over parts of the south. We could harvest it and, given its quick growth rate, it'd grow back rapidly. Even if we wound up depleting the supply, we'd only be cleaning up an invasive species that we introduced into the ecosystem in the first place.
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No real environmentalists you know the actual scientists who study the environment. Know there are trade offs and a real complex set of problems that happen. What we think of as environmentalists are average person who read the summary of the summary of the articles and gets outraged by the values, and will either spend time complaining about it, or coming up ways of manipulating their ideas so they can market to those who are complaining about it, to make them feel good about being self righteous.
Yes Glo
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An earth full of tired tree cutters?
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You really think their attitude is more "See, we can run the world on coffee grounds" than it is "See, you can do all sorts of wacky things, like running a car on coffee grounds"?
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How does thermodynamics come into play? If the earth were a closed system, that would be one thing, but we have this convenient star that periodically gives us some extra energy....
As far as being "green" as pointed out elsewhere, this would, ideally, be "carbon neutral", although in practice it would at best be merely less carbon intensive than fossil fuels. So, it's "green" as in "not as bad as some alternatives".
What it really comes down to is using the biomass as a convenient storage and transport mec
why coffee? (Score:2)
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The site coffeecar.org makes reference to using waste from coffee shops. So, I guess that better than wasting perfectly good beans.
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The costs of pro
The total cost would be interesting to know... (Score:4, Interesting)
Not that gasoline as we know and use it today comes with no cost, but if efficiency and cleanliness is what they are after, a little more disclosure would be useful.
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Good point. But gasification has the clever side-effect of letting you use otherwise wasted heat from exhaust and cooling systems to at least partially power it. Maybe you can also burn some of the coffee grounds directly to start up the process.
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What's the energy density of stored fuel? (Score:3)
If it's sensible, this could be useful in some areas, for some vehicles. Looks like the whole gassification assembly is not exactly a work of precision engineering and could be built in somewhat sub-standard conditions. I'd expect that many third-world plantations of easily gassified produce have lots of leftovers and not all of those have sensible uses to date - some might be just dumped somewhere to rot.
On a different note, if I were the CEO of Starbucks, I'd get such a car as a publicity and marketing stunt, and power it with dried left-overs from brewing.
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Well, I think we knew it was POSSIBLE (Score:2)
The Coffee Car was created with the sole intention of proving that renewable/green energy sources can power cars.
Yeah, but that's not the trick. The trick is proving that it can be done affordably (i.e., in a way that doesn't make it ten times as expensive as conventional fossil fuels).
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Starbucks saw this coming. (Score:2)
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Now you can spend $5 on a cup of fuel instead of a gallon. :P
Was this submitted by Billy Madison? (Score:2, Insightful)
The Coffee Car was created with the sole intention of proving that renewable/green energy sources can power cars ...
Because everyone knows that wood pellets - you know, the fuel source used by the previous record holder? - aren't a renewable resource. I mean, it's not like they freaking grow on trees or anything, amirite?
I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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The previous record holder only went 47 MPH. While you might call that a "car", I wouldn't recommend taking it on the highway.
To the contrary (Score:2)
The previous record holder only went 47 MPH. While you might call that a "car", I wouldn't recommend taking it on the highway.
I would argue that any conveyance that requires heaps of material such as coffee grounds, or wood pellets should not be taken on the highway even if it can go fast enough - because you can too quickly get beyond your piles of fuel. These things seem much better suited to in-city driving (though the ability to go at least 55 would be desirable even for that).
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How far does a pile of fuel get you? There's always a Starbucks closer than that...
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Trees, coffee, corn/ethanol... both expensive in resources and take long to grow. I'm curious if anyone's tried using common weeds as fuel? Or even bamboo, which can grow up to 100 cm a day...
Pfft (Score:5, Funny)
Everybody knows you dont use Java for speed.
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George disagree. [youtube.com] javajavajavajavajava...
I can just hope this technology flops... (Score:2)
We would all surely hate to see coffee prices go up as it becomes the new super-biodiesel. Maybe we would have to fall back to drinking gasoline?
*crosses fingers* (Score:2)
Mr. Fusion by 2015!
Grounds not Beans! (Score:5, Informative)
The BBC article is not clear on the fuel at all, the site coffeecar.org, states the car uses spent coffee grounds for fuel. So, this isn't as asinine as it originally sounds, just turning waste into syngas, not a useable (valuable, tasty) commodity for syngas.
What about a junk mail powered car? (Score:3)
I'd like to see a practical version of this that runs on junk mail. Unfortunately, burning the inks in glossy coupon flyers probably doesn't smell so good. It might be toxic too.
And yes, it wouldn't really be green. It's just that as long as the postman keeps delivering free fuel to me, I'd like a way to use it.
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runs on junk mail.
I did some testing of fueling a biochar maker with junk mail. I had problems with creosote buildup on the spark arrestor, but I definitely think it could be fixed. Ultimately, though, I suspect low-therm processes, such as vermiculture, would be more efficient both in terms of sequestration rate and ultimately in fuel generation (by using the fertilizer to increase the growth rate of crops that are more suited to biofuel processing).
Don't know if my post really adds much to the conversatio
Coffee powered car (Score:2)
"The car that never sleeps!"
Mind you, if I recall correctly, the 2nd biggest commodity after oil is coffee. If true, we could find ourselves bound by "BIG COFFEE"
Coffee is just the first step (Score:2)
The real problem with coffee powered cars is... (Score:2)
"syngas" is simply a fart (Score:2)
No wonder I let loose so much after drinking coffee.
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Used coffee is cheaper than oil. Essentially free as it's waste product. But if this holds on, not for long.
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Right, but do you understand the orders of magnitude difference between the waste product from coffee consumption and the amount of oil we use? The last time this subject came up, someone calculated that fuel from all the waste biomass in the country would still be a tiny fraction of oil consumption.
Also in that thread, there was speculation that techniques like this might be useful on farms for fuel used at the farm, and for self-sufficiency hobbyists (and survivalist fanatics). So I guess the effort isn
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Yep, I understand. Hence "But if this holds on, not for long.". Sorry for not being clear enough.
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The last time this subject came up, someone calculated that fuel from all the waste biomass in the country would still be a tiny fraction of oil consumption.
Yup. But gasification doesn't have to scale up to power *every* car, it just has to power *my* car. If you make a gasifier, it has to scale to power yours, too.
Oh, you can't weld? Well, tell you what, how about I give you a lift in my wood gas-powered car to the stables, and I'll teach you how to ride a horse instead?
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Yes, later in the same article I quoted, I said that the value would be in local generation for local usage. And yes, I had the same thought -- I don't care if it's commercially viable, if I could finagle it for the truck.
Wood gas power (the way I've seen it implemented) has quite high point source emissions, (non-geek translation: emits lots of black smoke) so your vehicle may not be hugely popular with the neighbors, but there might be a point where consumer vehicles like it are the only ones on the road
Scale (Score:2)
Oh, you can't weld? Well, tell you what, how about I give you a lift in my wood gas-powered car to the stables, and I'll teach you how to ride a horse instead?
If you think wood-gas does not scale well, just figure out the costs associated with owning a horse.
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Except that they're using coffee grounds. To compare it to ethanol, you'd have to somehow be able to eat the corn first, and then make the ethanol from the husks/leaves that remain.
All that aside, coffee grounds were just a whim, not a necessity. The rig they built should work just as well wit
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Which is just the way ethanol is made in cellulosic ethanol plants [wikipedia.org]. The food, you get to eat. The waste, you get to drink. Or drive. Not at the same time, please.
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This can be done by putting the cattle or pig dung in the gasifier. This would be after feeding the corn to the animals of course. It would have to be dried first, same as the coffee grounds. I recall seeing videos of people using dried dung for cooking and heating so there seems to be enough energy density in the dung to make it comparable to wood. Probably a better solution than the coffee beans since they needed to start the process with wood to get the coffee to burn.
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Exactly right, now that you mention it there was an episode of "Apocalypse Pa" where they set up a pickup truck to do exactly that, using waste from their livestock (horses IIRC). The second I hit "submit" I realized I shouldn't have specified "plant-based left-overs", but I guess that's just what was really in my mind given the coffee bean vs corn talk....
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So do you realize they are using spent coffee grounds?
What is next commentators that have no fucking idea what they are talking about? How about a commentator that then makes a bunch of stupid comparisons based on his total lack of knowledge about the situation.
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No, I didn't read the article, because I am a typical Slashdotter. I took the tiny information that I had, extrapolated it any way I wanted, and came to a conclusion that suited my opinion.
What is next, people reading the articles and making insightful, informed comments based on actual knowledge? If you are hanging out here you may want to consider lowering your standards a bit. Oh, and lighten up Francis, it was a joke. Sorry you didn't get it, but I am
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What's with the AOL etc. license plate?
UK number plates have the area the car was registered in, a serial number, and the year of registration.
So, AOL 183T means it was registered in Oxfordshire some time in late 1978 - "OL" was Oxfordshire, "A" and "183" is fairly early in the sequence, and "T" means August 1978 to July 1979.