A Day In the Life of a "Booth Babe" 687
jfruh writes "Booth babes," promotional models paid to showcase products, are ubiquitous figures at tech trade shows. Ever wonder what they think of their jobs? Well, it may not surprise you to learn that standing up for eight hours in heels isn't much fun. Some enjoy the work, while others don't enjoy being the subject of stares. And one model adds that 'The industry is now moving towards making models show more skin.'"
If they don't like it (Score:4, Insightful)
Why not quit their job?
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe, just maybe, they can't find another job? Or they dislike the other jobs they can get even more?
Quitting your job is not an option for everyone. Don't paint everyone with the brush that you've been painted with, some have less options.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
By definition, the vast majority of women can't get this job.
Should they feel sorry for those that can and do but don't want to?
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
So since the vast majority of women can't get this job that sucks, the ones who have it but think it sucks should like it? The difficulty of getting a job == the desirablilty of the job? What?
This case proves that economic value determined by supply and demand (scarcity = value) is not always real value.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
Sadly that’s part of the issue.
There are two paths that can take a good looking woman to be a "booth babe": Marketing or modeling.
A model or aspiring marketer (perhaps with a full degree) seeks a job, the marketing/modeling agency sees her, she is good looking and will offer her no other position than "Booth Babe" mainly because they know they must force all good looking women that path or they will have no booth babes to sell.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd like to hear comments from these women when they are in their 40s and fat (or just old). "Nobody looks at me anymore. I used to be cute and guys would give me all kinds of attention. Now they don't even look. :-( " Young women (and men) don't appreciate the beauty they have until after it's gone.
I know women in their 40s that exercise regular, lift weights, and look better then they did in their 20-30s. They have hardly any wrinkles (avoided the sun), they had children, and yes they have a career. Some even in the fitness industry. They turn more heads then women half their age, and are proud doing so. Beauty is something you can maintain and improve upon.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
> sucks, the ones who have it but think it sucks should like it?
No, absolutely not. If they don't like it, they should get another job -- probably one in a field other than modeling, because if they don't like wearing heels and showing skin, modeling is really not the ideal career.
Let's talk about career choices here.
I don't like walking, hate uniforms, and am absolutely terrified of dogs. I think I'll be a... mailman! Yes!
I prefer to remain fully clothed, especially in public, don't like wearing uncomfortable clothing such as high heels, and I don't like to have people stare at me. I want to be a... model! Yeah!
Really? Are you totally sure about that?
Re:If they don't like it (Score:4, Informative)
There's a difference between expected job duties and conditions.. in fact, duties and conditions that define the job, and having a crappy boss that treats you like shit.
You don't see many techies complaining because they're exposed to too much technology, or that they hate all the programming they have to do... That's what the job is.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:4, Insightful)
No, but at the same time these are obviously just girls used to having it easy, complaining.
They work 8 hour days, with 1/3 of the time being BREAK TIME.
And when they are working all they have to do is stand and smile, and they think they have it hard and that they are doing real work.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
If someone complained to you about their job as a sewer repair person, wouldn't you say "Well, you chose to work in that field, so stop complaining!"?
If you choose to work in a slaughterhouse, you can't complain that you have to kill animals all day long.
Likewise, going to work as a model is one of those jobs that don't afford much sympathy for being "stared at" or treated like an object. They knew going in what it was like.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:4, Funny)
I would prefer it if the bodypaint is kept to the booth babes and not the majority of slashdotters.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:4, Funny)
That's not paint, it's orange Cheeto's dust.
Options? (Score:3)
Don't paint everyone with the brush that you've been painted with, some have less options.
It's all in the mind
If you think that you have less options, you _will_ have less options
Re:Options? (Score:4, Informative)
*fewer
Re:Options? (Score:5, Informative)
From your own link: In prescriptive grammar fewer is the prescribed comparative to be used in relation to grammatically plural, discretely quantifiable nouns, i.e., count nouns. The comparative less, it is argued, should be used when speaking of a grammatically singular noun (including mass nouns). Descriptive grammarians, however, are only concerned with the extent that this distinction applies in actual human usage.
"Fewer" is for counts; e.g. "fewer and fewer people know the difference between lose and loose". "Less" is for amounts, e.g. "I have less gasoline in my car than I did yesterday."
If you have fewer cornflakes in the box, you have less cereal.
BTW, the wiki article is incredibly badly written. Actually, I should have said "poorly written" but who the fuck cares as long as the meaning is clear?
I hope I've educated a few people.
Re:Options? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's all in the mind
If you think that you have less options, you _will_ have less options
Oh very much so. But the thing to remember that modifying your thought process is right up there with some of the hardest things in life.
Low self-esteem is something that feeds off of itself and just gets worse with time. Depression is not far behind, which puts the person into real trouble because that kills any motivation to try to improve yourself.
The sad part is that there is still this common misconception that low self-esteem and depression are easily overcome. The sufferer just simply can't "Start feeling better". Without professional help, there is really no way out, thus limiting his/her options for life and careers.
'He who conquers others is strong; He who conquers himself is mighty.' -Lao Tse
Re:Options? (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, the Dunning-Kruger effect [wikipedia.org] doesn't help.
Speaking as someone that's dealt with depression since I was a pre-teen along with the extreme lack of self-esteem, it's incredibly demoralizing and makes it difficult to advance. Every time a promotion came up, I would tell myself I was going to go for it and try and psych myself up but in the end my own fear of failure and disappointment kept me from even trying a lot of the time, and when I did actually manage to get promoted, due to the way I internalize everything, I was never able to let the "shit roll down hill"...it always stopped at me and compounded my neuroses and lack of self confidence.
Coupled with the stigma that still comes along with mental health issues, particularly in the work environment (you can miss a day if you wake up puking your guts up and nobody bats an eye...try and miss a day because you feel like you're a worthless piece of shit that ruins everything he touches, see how that goes over), it's really quite debilitating. This is why it makes me so fucking angry when people make glib comments about the subject, because it really is a handicap. It would be ridiculous to tell someone that lost an arm "just think positive and everything will be okay", but for some reason, when the subject of depression comes up, there are still a large number of people out there that think you can just turn it off.
God, I fucking wish I could just turn it off. I wish it was as simple as telling myself I'm awesome every morning while I'm staring at myself in the mirror, or reading a few self-help books.
Re:Options? (Score:4, Informative)
It could be a matter of finding the right drug.. or the right supplement.
I have used supplements to cure in a medical way, gout, high blood pressure, and hemorrhoids. By "medical", I mean the results were very fast and repeatable. Not, "take this for 60 days and there will be a 5% improvement".
The esteem issues may be related or unrelated to your depression. You might be able to reduce the size of your emotional problems slightly and make the total load easier. Esteem issues are often parent related. If you have any open issues with your parents, you might be able to resolve those and get some closure.
I had work induced depression last year and had to go on anti anxiety and anti depression medication. I'm still left with sleeplessness now that we are past that period. I think my adrenal glands are still messed up from so much stress. And the hemorrhoids came from sitting in a hard plastic chair for 70 hours a week for several months.
I hope you find something that helps. It sounds like you are intelligent, rational and successful.
Re:Options? (Score:5, Informative)
Now, the sometimes awkward bit. I'll put a TL;DR summary of the below here: For some people, depression is a different beast. We've struggled all our lives to understand it, to combat it, and there IS no "emotional problem" or "open issues with parents" that cause it. Much like a diabetic, it's just there, and just like taking insulin, we take our meds to lesson our symptoms, but these symptoms are always, always, always there, in good times or bad. Often, the best we can hope for is "Take for 60 days with a 5% improvement."; lord knows that the 5% improvement I get from my Lamictal and Depokote cocktail might just be what holds this job down by letting me stagger to the shower in the mornings, instead of sleeping through the alarm and feeling vaguely disappointed I woke up at all. The same goes for important relationships; I have my girlfriend and kids to love; even with my meds, it's a large task; without them... well, I already had one divorce, causing me to lose nearly everything. That is not something I'll risk again, even though it's still difficult. The symptoms themselves are less "horribly sad and emotionally troubled" and more "completely empty and motivationally lethargic" from what I've found, and that is simply not a feeling that's easy to convey.
The long version:
Another area of depression, though, is no "reason-induced" depression; it's just there. To many of us that have struggled with depression all our lives, our parents tell us that even as a very young child we were "moody". Of course we feel bad when we go through the normal struggles of life; job issues, deaths of family members, divorce, etc, just like everybody else, and we can get through those moments, just like everybody else. My dad's death and my divorce were rough, but at no time did I think I couldn't get through them, bad as they were, unless I was also feeling this second kind of depressed, too. I guess I had something of a rough childhood, but there's really no trigger point I can point to that says "Yup. That's why I got sad for no reason last Saturday and couldn't shake it until yesterday". Even "sad" or the common meaning of "depression" aren't the right words. It's more a feeling of complete and total apathy, lethargy, no motivation, just no... substance or will. I think of it more as simply and totally "empty" than "sad", and most of my focus group members have felt much the same.
In my early 20s I would wonder if I was "self-faking" it (something like the Dunning-Kruger link above) to avoid success, or that if I could just find the right supplement or eat right or exercise I'd feel better, but was the lack of motivation my problem? Everybody else seemed to think so, well-meaning or not. If I could power through and find that one thing I need to shake this shit off, would I feel better? I felt so hopeless after I'd let myself get dragged to various drug stores or gyms and find that the latest thing to "cheer me up " STILL wouldn't work. What a pain in the ass.
I had an epiphany one night in my late teens when all my buddies convinced me to take ecstasy. Being on the high-octane side of the bipolar coin at the time, I thought this was a balls-to-the-wall good idea. While everyone at the party was having a great time, I got nothing, all night and after 3 or 4 pills (I assumed the first 2 were duds). May has well have been a handful of Tylenol. In the 12 years since, I've tried q
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Options? (Score:5, Insightful)
The sad part is that there is still this common misconception that low self-esteem and depression are easily overcome. The sufferer just simply can't "Start feeling better". Without professional help, there is really no way out, thus limiting his/her options for life and careers.
The really depressing part is that there is no treatment for moderate depression that works significantly better than placebo. SSRIs [science20.com] only actually work on people with severe major depression. The most empirically supported type of talk therapy, CBT, is effective only in anxiety disorders [nih.gov].
There's really no effective treatment for depression, because depression isn't really an illness. It's a rational response to an abusive world. The real sickos are the ones who are ok with the way things are.
Re:Options? (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't paint everyone with the brush that you've been painted with, some have less options.
It's all in the mind
If you think that you have less options, you _will_ have less options
“If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” -- Bruce Lee
Re:Options? (Score:5, Insightful)
In short, you have nothing to gain by assuming failure. It gains you nothing. If you glibly assume success, and then fail, you still are not in any worse a position than if you assumed failure from the outset and did nothing.
I remember in college someone on an IRC channel complaining that he couldn't get a date because asking girls out was hard. Thing is... there were obviously girls in the channel. The thing that struck me, other than being surprised to see a female in an IRC channel (this was like 1995) was that instead of trying chat them up, he was making himself into a pity party. Now, say what you will, but if a girl is willing to listen to you feel sorry for yourself, she's probably open to listening to you in general. Girls don't usually waste time listening to men be whiners unless they actually think well of them.
Needless to say, I felt that an obvious opportunity was being wasted. I berated him for allowing his waangst to override his ability to see opportunity, and then simply asked one of the girls out. I expected to fail, obviously, but I wanted to demonstrate that failure doesn't kill you. Instead she accepted and we ended up dating for a few months until the end of my senior year.
There is only really one set of characteristics that separates highly successful people from others: recognizing and acting on opportunity. While I admit, being reckless is not a good idea either, you would be surprised about the number of opportunities out there that are really pretty low risk. The catch with those is that they don't come regularly and you can't psych yourself up to take advantage of them, you have to just see them and go for it. Being smart enough to see the angles helps a lot, but that shouldn't be a problem in this forum.
You have to accept failure as a possibility of any action, but you have to understand that inaction is always worse than a failed action. Doing nothing ensures that you get nothing.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
If they really have no skills and qualification for other jobs they should be thankful that they're not an ugly girl and qualify for these easy and relatively high paying jobs (pays more than McD right?).
When opportunity knocks too many women just complain about the noise.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
No, but at the same time, they knew exactly what was expected of them when they applied for that job. They knew exactly what was going to be involved. They sought out that job, probably because they felt they were too good to flip burgers or ring people out at Target, or those jobs wouldn't afford them the wage that they desire.
If you want to talk about the way the industry objectifies women, then fine, I'll agree that there is objectification there. If you want to ban booth babes to try and change this, be my guest...personally, using sex in advertising has never, ever worked on me (and honestly, I've always felt that it was fucking stupid). But let's not pretend that the women doing this job are oppressed in some way. They know exactly why they're standing there in that skimpy-ass outfit in their Fuck Me Pumps, and if that bothers them, then they probably shouldn't have applied in the first place. It's really no different than a vegetarian working at McDonald's bitching about handling meat.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
You tell me, as a reasonable person, what sort of expectations you would have applying for a job as a booth babe (or whatever PC term they call it on paper).
If being ogled by creepy dudes is not one of them, then your expectations are not realistic. That's just common sense.
I have a hard time believing that many of the women in this line of work were coming into it not knowing full well what it was going to be like. It's not like these women just woke up hot one day and decided to capitalize on it. They've likely been involved in selling their bodies (not literally, but I wouldn't be surprised if some really had) since they were younger. They probably modeled a little bit, did pageants, shit like that. Point is, the "I had no idea the job was going to be like this" idea is completely unbelievable to me. This isn't the 40's, these girls didn't just step off the bus from Omaha and get taken advantage of.
Like I said, nobody forced them to sell themselves in this way, and there is no shortage of willing and eager women waiting right behind them to take their spot if they want to give it up. If they do decide to leave, I'll be the first to cheer them on, because I'm sure it must get old being stared at all day (as someone with extremely low self-esteem, it would be torturous for me), but at the same time, I would at least have the critical thinking skills to not apply for that job in the first place.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of the ladies waving their "accessories" left and right on the shows (like E3). It only helps to reinforce the stereotype image people have of games and gamers. I think the games and gadgets industry (and probably the cars industry, another big offender) is better off without these stereotype girls draped all over flat screens and hubcaps. Still, if these girls have a problem with the job they have, then they shouldn't do it.
I see the other reactions about how some of them may have no choice, but that's such self-victimization. Everyone has a choice, the only thing that's stopping these girls from getting a different, more appropriate job is their own lack of belief that they can. If you think the job sucks, sure, I can understand that, but don't enter a room filled with oversexed nerds wearing nothing but a bikini or figure hugging cat suit and expect them to judge you on your intelligence.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:4, Insightful)
Why? This quote from the article is illuminating:
"But the work is pretty relaxed and you don't have to do a lot in order to get paid."
Because we have trained women to accept, even seek, objectification.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it's more that humanity is inherently lazy.
How many men out there would gladly be a 'booth boy' if given the chance? Head on down to your local Walmart, McDonald's, pretty much any retail establishment, and ask any guy working there if he would trade in his shitty job to stand around in a speedo looking hot for the ladies all day. Go ahead and ask. I guarantee you, 99% of guys would gladly agree, not because they've been trained to seek objectification, but because it sure as fuck beats real work.
You want to pay me to stand there in a skimpy outfit and feign interest in people? Where do I sign up?
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
I have no pity for people that base their entire carer on their looks and then complain that it's not lucrative enough. It's not lucrative enough because you're not all that good looking. If you were hotter you'd have better options than booth babe. Sorry, but it's a shallow business you got into there.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
Where the heck do you live that McD, Walmart, and 'department stores' all pay more than $100/day? Doing the math $100/day is $12.50 an hour with 8 hours. Where I live in PA those places pay minimum wage to $9/hour (capped) and you have to hope you can actually get an 8 hour shift.
That said, I don't have pity for them either. Most of the women interviewed worked as models or dancers most of the time. What exactly do they think those fields are about...?
Slashdot really living down to its reputation here (Score:5, Informative)
First, RTFA. There was essentially no complaining at all in the article, besides a little "it's tiring to stand in heels for eight hours" Really really sad the number of slashdotters who without reading the article just assumed that it was a bunch of women whining. Not to mention the number of posts here responding to accusations of sexism that were never made. Defensive much?
Second, to the parent post, you know what the one who didn't like it did? She quit and got a different job.
Given that like every third slashdot post is someone complaining about their job, you'd think people here would maybe cut these women a little slack. Or is it really that offensive to hear a women who's job is to be professionally pretty talk about it just like it's any other job?
Re:Slashdot really living down to its reputation h (Score:5, Insightful)
Note that the first quote you provide is in the reporter's voice, not any of the models. To some extent, this reads like the kind of story where the reporter started with an angle and wrote it regardless of what the actual subjects say. The direct quotes are all pretty down to earth: "But the work is pretty relaxed and you don't have to do a lot in order to get paid," "It's not a great feeling to see that, but there's nothing that can really be done. We work to promote products," "I'm used to it" and so on. Of the four women quoted, three don't say much more than that a job's a job, and standing and smiling all day is harder than it looks. Ellen Lee, the only woman who's quoted complaining about the job, is pointed out as looking for other work.
These all seem within the usual spectrum of responses when people are asked about their jobs. I guess the formula "You knew that [X] existed when you took the job, so you have no right to complain about it." just doesn't ring true for me. If X = {'carpal tunnel syndrome', 'stupid management', 'TPS reports'}, I suspect there'd be a supportive reaction from slashdoters. So why when X = 'sexisim' is there such a huge angry response?
Re:If they don't like it (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, just like those goddamn whiny miners who still wanted to work in order to support their families but kept bitching about how much they were dying! Who the hell do they think they are!
Complaining about your job and asking and sometimes demanding that your employer do more to improve your work situation is a proud American tradition. It's the reason why the majority of American workers today have things like weekends, overtime pay, and sick days. There's absolutely nothing wrong with workers telling their bosses they want better work conditions.
Re:If they don't like it (Score:4, Insightful)
Not a great analogy. If the miners were complaining about having to go underground and get ores out of the ground, they should've been fired. But they were complaining about how the work was unsafe because the employer was being irresponsible because they could get away with it. The analogy would be more like if these women were being groped and the managers weren't doing anything about it delibrately. AFAICT that's not happening here.
Though to be fair, the women don't really seem to be complaining about the work so much as how it's kind of a boring job that makes their feet hurt. Not "I signed up to show off my body and they're making me show it off!", which seems to be what a bunch of people here are imagining.
Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
These women have taken a job where their bodies will be used to manipulate the minds of lonely men by displaying their sexual atttributes, and then some of them have the gall to be upset that they're being regarded as sex objects? Wake me up when someone intelligent is interviewed. They oughta be happy that someone will pay them for something if standing around in heels is one of their finest talents.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:4, Interesting)
I have sympathy on these women. I work a major tradeshow every year and have seen just how bad these women have it. This last year, there was a "Booth babe" across the way from me. Around 3pm every day, booths would give out free alcohol. Around 3:15 she would have 10-15 men all trying to pick up on her at the same time. Literally. On the last full day of the show, the company she was working with threw a big party. I went to it and she was there. She was stuck at the entrance (near an ice sculpture people were taking shots out of) the entire time. She had even more drunk men hitting on her. By 10pm, she looked sad and forlorn, but no one seemed to notice. I went up and talked to her. I told her how I had seen her there all week, being slobbered on by disgusting men, and that I was sorry that she was treated so poorly. After apologizing, she got a huge smile on her face. It literally turned her entire night around. At that point (to show that I was genuine, and not just making a pass at her), I told her to have a goodnight and that I'd see her the next day at the show. The rest of the night she was all smiles.
These women may be pretty, but she was quite smart and didn't like being recognized only for her looks. She was doing this to earn extra money for school, and she had a real job in addition to this side gig. I imagine she is absolutely terrified to work around engineers now, because she is afraid that she will encounter the same treatment in the real world.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll bite the bullet and burn some karma for this one.
No, that wasn't what he meant, thanks for the ad hominem.
What he meant is that when a woman applies for, then gets a job, where almost her sole purpose is to be a sexual object and to dress sexually, in an effort to promote her body in some vague conjunction with a product, then she deserves to be treated as a sexual object.
In the same way someone who applies for, then gets a job, where her sole purpose is to defend the law, should be treated as an officer of the law.
Likewise a woman who applies for, then gets a job, where her sole purpose is "dispensing the word of god" in a safe and conservative setting, should be treated as a nun.
You pretend you can't curse when you're around nuns, you end everything with a sir around a cop, and you make comments about a woman or mans body when their jobs are only 1 piece of clothing away from being a stripper.
I'm sorry, the minute you voluntarily take a job that exploits your sexuality, you lose your right to complain when people treat you as a worker in that job. There is a line between "legitimate harassment" (i hate that that is even a valid phrase), and "illegal harassment", but lets not go pretending they're saints who deserve to never hear a foul word out of anyone mouths.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
You are missing the point. This is not about the booth babes. I don't care about the booth babes. It is about how companies view women.
Would you take your 15 year old daughter who happens to be interested in computers and science to one of these conventions? If you say no, is it because she would be exposed to an industry that shamelessly objectifies women? Could you imagine your daughter wanting to work in one of these companies?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You are missing the point. This is not about the booth babes.
I read the title. Then I read the summary. Then I even read the article. Then I concluded that you have done none of these things.
I don't care about the booth babes.
Yes, we know. You just want to make yourself feel smarter.
It is about how companies view women.
No, it is about how everyone views women who sell (or rent) their bodies as objects.
Would you take your 15 year old daughter who happens to be interested in computers and science to one of these conventions?
I wouldn't have children.
If you say no, is it because she would be exposed to an industry that shamelessly objectifies women?
On that basis you shouldn't let her do basically anything.
Could you imagine your daughter wanting to work in one of these companies?
If I had a daughter working as a booth babe then I would be a big fuckup as a parent. If she went to work for a company that hired booth babes not as a booth
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
Computer and High-Tech fields lack women because the culture is viewed as being misogynistic. Contrast this with the legal field in which women and men are represented in equal numbers. The difference is that anyone who works in the legal profession is trained to understand why sexual harassment is wrong for both moral and legal reasons. You don't see women being objectified in legal conventions. The same is true for the medical profession. Medical device manufacturers don't need booth babes at their conventions. In the tech industry most companies are dominated by 20 or 30-something males, and the morality of sexual harassment never crosses their minds. Women aren't stupid and most aren't going to waste years of their lives becoming educated and proficient in their field only to be resented, objectified, and sexually harassed. It should also be noted that countries that lack strong protection against sexual harassment feature booth babes and other types of promotional models more often.
From this we can conclude that booth babes are a result of fields dominated by young men, fields that don't actively try to protect women workers, and places where objectifying women is less of a taboo. Booth babes are just the tiny speck of cancer that has reached the surface for everyone to see.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:4, Insightful)
Booth babes don't exist because IT is misogynist but because they sell. Showing women near the product makes our primate brains think the product attracts women and so we buy it (but you knew that already, right? if not you aren't watching your quota of ads, consumer!).
Since women don't have to buy the shiniest gadget to attract men tactics are different to target them, but it works just the same.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank you. My first experience with "booth babes" was the Detroit Auto Show; having never gone to such an event before, I hadn't expected to see that. I'm honestly surprised that even guys generally don't see anything wrong with it (as evidenced by the fact that the usage of "booth babes" is ubiquitous at such events). Is it really that hard to picture the scenario where the situation is reversed, that it's women that are most of the people who are into what you're into, and everywhere you go at the show/convention there's big burly guys in bikini briefs getting paid to stand around and show off the products to you for no visibly apparent reason related to the product? How comfortable would you be about that?
The problem isn't that there are women who need a job and take what is offered to them, even if it's demeaning, and aren't happy about what they're having to do. The problem is that we have a culture that says, "It's A-Okay to make objectification of people the standard for conventions."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You're a woman. That's why you don't recognize when the marketing is aimed at you and makes men uncomfortable, although there's no shortage of that either.
I am a man and I do find it insulting that a company thinks it can sell more if it shows me scantily clad women. That doesn't mean I am sympathetic to the women who take these jobs and get objectified as the job description requires: On the contrary, they get paid to manipulate me into buying something that I don't need or paying more than I'd have to if
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not sexist. It's the truth. We men are the marks just like he says. Men are visual people. Women just aren't. That's why they don't understand it. I wish it were different but it's not.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Interesting)
Aren't medical companies notorious for hiring hot ladies as product reps? The idea being middle-aged male doctors are easy to manipulate if the manipulator is young & pretty...
The sexism argument with computers doesn't make sense to me at all. There's a ton more sexism in other industries (try modelling in general, or Hollywood or around the boardrooms of big companies or merchant banking or even working in a bar when the drunks come in). The difference I guess is that nerds are seen as the bottom of the social pile by a lot of people and this perception of the geeks being tragic sleazes has immersed itself in our culture. I'm sure some nerds are sexist pigs, just as I'm sure some bankers are coke-snorting hooker-abusing vermin. However we tend to make TV & movies showing the bankers as kind of bad-boy cool and glamorous. Whereas the geek crowd get the world's best hacker played by Kevin Smith living in his mom's basement...
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Informative)
http://exhibitcitynews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2471:evolving-from-booth-babe-to-exhibit-staff&catid=76:features&Itemid=142 [exhibitcitynews.com]
Maybe not, but they hire from the same agency they just put nicer clothes on them.
But hey out at the medical design and manufacturing show
https://twitter.com/1TradeShowModel/statuses/206122956412289025 [twitter.com]
guess they do hire them after all.. ooops..
another "insightful" post on slashdot.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:4, Interesting)
Computer and High-Tech fields lack women because the culture is viewed as being misogynistic.
And if you are a woman, you SHOULD go into these fields, because all these tech companies WANT to hire women, if for nothing else to prove they do not discriminate.
My wife quit teaching 7 years ago, spent a year to take a few network classes at a junior college and immediately got a job that paid 40% more than teaching. In the 5 years since then she has tripled what she made as a teacher and is constantly bombarded by recruiters trying to hire her. She is very attractive (especially for a 50 year-old woman), but she also swears like a sailor and has no problem throwing sexist insults straight back at her co-workers and being "one of the guys." And she usually is the only female technical person wherever she works.
So as long as women don't have the "poor, delicate little me" hangup they can easily gain respect, money and power in the tech industry. My wife tries to teach young women this lesson, but none seem to listen.
a different perspective (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in Brazil, where booth babes are a fixture at any trade show. My daughter has been one of them. She's in college, speaks three languages and looks fantastic in a short, tight dress. She gets paid several hundred dollars a night to engage prospective customers outside the booth and qualify them as to whether to bring them into the booths for the salespeople to work them over. Speaking three languages, she's in demand for this job - she's tired at the end of a show, but it's good money and she meets interesting people. She's not a prostitute - she knows that she's being ogled, but she's worked hard on her looks and is proud of them. She gets propositioned occasionally, but she's a big girl and can handle herself. Next year, she'll graduate with a degree in Chemistry from University Federal do Rio de Janeiro, one of the best universities in Brazil, and will go into pharmaceutical research. She's not being degraded - she goes into her job with her eyes open and feels like this is a heck of a lot better than other jobs that she could get.
Jesus, I'm glad I don't live where people debate this shit endlessly.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:4, Informative)
Take CES for instance. I wouldn't take my 15 year old daughter to CES because it is a TRADE EVENT, mostly for corporate buyers and press. No 15 year old is going to be interested in that.
And if they are interested? Who cares? Why not "expose them" to a tech trade show? Because they might learn that sometimes companies pay attractive women to simply stand in their booths wearing skimpy outfits, because it will drive foot traffic and potentially lead to business? Some companies at trade shows put up strobe lights or serve free alcohol for the same reason. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
At 15 the vast majority of girls are more than capable of dealing with "the way the world really works" lessons, including being exposed to an extent to the world's less attractive factors, and it is probably unhelpful (unhealthy even) and almost certainly impractical to try shield them from all that.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:4, Insightful)
You are missing the point. This is not about the booth babes. I don't care about the booth babes. It is about how companies view women.
Would you take your 15 year old daughter who happens to be interested in computers and science to one of these conventions? If you say no, is it because she would be exposed to an industry that shamelessly objectifies women? Could you imagine your daughter wanting to work in one of these companies?
It's not about how companies view women it's how the world sees beautiful women. Men are aroused by them which creates positive feelings which are then associated with a product. Women idolize beautiful women in the sense that the majority of women want to be as beautiful as they can be and humans tend to emulate eachother. The difference is that *you* see a booth babe and think something negative where a photo of a model wearing far less on the cover of a magazine may illicit an entirely different response (I don't know).
If these professions were so offensive they would not find women to fill them. Those women that do should really not complain about a job that gives you 3 hours off every 8 hours worked just because they have to smile and choose to wear uncomfortable shoes. I know women (and men) who are paid 1/10th the wage to work in a factory and come home with sore feet, hands so swollen that they take an hour to open the next morning, and permanent wrist damage from repetitive strain. Funny thing is, I've never heard one of them complain even though they have far more reason to.
According to the women (Score:3)
... and I've frank talk to many of them on this subject
According to many women, the dress sexy part is actually a "moral boost"
It's kinda hard for us men to grasp, but it goes like this
Women like to be stared
Deep in their psyche they like to be stared by the opposite sex
It made them feel that they have "worth"
That's why we get to see so many women parading their skins, their boobs, their buttocks
But, on the other hand, women do complain about men staring at them
They do complain that we men stare at them as
Re:According to the women (Score:4, Insightful)
It's simple really. So simple, I'm surprised you don't get it. Women want to be stared at by attractive men, and don't want attention from fatties and goons.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
lets not go pretending they're saints who deserve to never hear a foul word out of anyone mouths.
Do they deserve to be subjected to those foul words?
What he meant is that when a woman applies for, then gets a job...
Have you ever taken a crap job because you needed the cash (especially when you were younger)? You might not have, but many others have, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the attendees at these trade shows have, too. If you ever talk to someone about crap jobs they had in the past, is your response something along the lines of: "you took the job, its your fault you deserved to be treated like crap"?
If the answer to that is "no", then you're guilty of double standards.
If you've ever shown sympathy to any slashdotters who put up with awful working conditions as is common in many areas of our industry then you are again guilty of double standards.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
Well if you read the article they are getting paid north of $50 and hour.
Selective quoting, much? That's the rate for a product launch, which is a short event. Short shifts mean more down-time -- that "$50 an hour" is also "$100 dollars a day" and possibly their only income for a week or a month.
As for the trade shows, the article says Computex models are on $100-$170 for 8 hours, which is £12.50 - £21.25 per hour
That's still not bad as an hourly rate, but again, it's not regular work, and there's a Saturday shift in there too.
But Computex is a big one, and as TFA says, other shows pay $60 a day, bringing us into the same territory as the minimum wage in many US states-- $7.50. That's also less than the UK minimum wage, which is about $9.40.
Let's say you get 3 product launches, the full 5 days at Computex and another 15 days at other trade shows -- that's $2140. Not bad for the equivalent of a month's work, but nowhere near $50ph in real terms. But then, it's not going to be a solid month's work. If that's all you're getting from modelling in a year, that's not even an extra $180 each month over your main source of income.
This is why so many girls go into modelling and find themselves dispirited: it's made to look like a glamorous, well-paid job, but it turns out to be exceptionally sleazy and cheap.
For the most part, girls do not know what they're getting into.
Re: (Score:3)
This is why so many girls go into modelling and find themselves dispirited: it's made to look like a glamorous, well-paid job, but it turns out to be exceptionally sleazy and cheap.
For the most part, girls do not know what they're getting into.
That's why these ladies only do the job for one event and never look back,right? Because after the first time they know what they are getting into and shouldn't make the same mistake again, right? I somehow doubt that is the case though....
Re: (Score:3)
Bullshit. What's more, whenever someone on here whines about "lusers", almost everybody rolls their eyes and joins in on the circlejerk. Oh noes, we have to suffer though, the pay, it means nothing. My pointy haired boss is giving me crazy requirements that make no sense, I did not choose to be a tech monkey at all. Blah blah blah. Then a hot chick comes along, and people make a point of saying how much they not care, how those evil hot chicks exploit men.
If it wasn't so funny, I'd say "the nerve", but you
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
A woman should never be regarded as simply an object.
Make sure you don't ever study nutrition, wherein a woman will be regarded as little more than a digestive tract with appendages, or really any book on anatomy or physiology.
And forget about following women in sports, where they are all reduced to a set of statistics.
And don't ever try to hire a woman or do business with her, because she'll be reduced to a set of qualifications, risks, etc.
And don't read gender feminist theory where women are reduced to a political bloc.
Okay, maybe that last one really is dehumanizing.
Re: (Score:3)
Correct, at least in this example.
They are being payed to be 'Models' what do they expect?
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
"These are tough times. A man can get a job, he might not look too close at what that job is."
The problem isn't the girls; it's the position and the culture that accepts that not only is it okay to have such employment positions, but that it's pretty much the standard. Of course from a population of 300 million, half of which are female, a not insignificant percentage of which are in the right age range and attractive, you're going to be able to fill such a position with *someone*. That doesn't mean that
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
It's pretty clearly not what GP meant. I think s/he's saying not that they deserve it (and for the record, I don't think the "it" here is outright sexual harassment, just creepy stares and objectification) because they dress sexy, but because they accepted a job that they knew consisted of nothing but dressing sexy so that they could be objectified for the purpose of selling something.
Blaming the genuinely victimized is bad form, but if being the "victim" is your voluntarily-accepted, paid profession, that's a little different, wouldn't you say? And what is modeling if not being voluntarily objectified?
Do you think that when a naive, wide-eyed pretty young woman, just out of high school, goes to the modelling agency, the agent says "Coooorrrrrr, those dirty old pervs are gonna have a great time wrapping their eyes round your tits!!!"?
No, they talk all sweetly about elegance and class and other nice neutral ideas.
On a similar note, when you were last on the job market, did your current boss tell you about all the budgetary hassles; cutbacks in the staff entertainments programme and irritating bureaucracy in the company, or did he tell you it was a great place to work and like one big happy family?
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
So noone should be allowed to complain about a job "they took"?
I know you're a troll but I'm up late because I had a headache so I'll take this question anyway. No one should be allowed to complain about the fundamentals of a job they took. If you take a job whose title is "Shoveler of Elephant Shit" and then you whine about how you don't like shoveling elephant shit, nobody will give a fuck. Now, if you complain that you've been given a spoon to shovel the shit with, that's a valid complaint; you're actually a spooner of elephant shit, and that's a whole different job. But if you've been hired to be ogled by horny dorks sans social skills, you don't get to complain about being ogled by them. If someone tries to slip you one on the conference floor, complain; that is not appropriate behavior. If you're paid to wear a bikini in front of nerds and someone stares at your tits on the conference floor, stick those fucking tits out — that's what you're being paid for.
If I were to somehow secure a job as a model, I wouldn't complain if people told me how much they admired the way I looked. That'd be my job function. This would also have to be some kind of parallel reality, but the point still stands. If you get a job as eye candy don't complain when you're perceived as nothing more than a sweet treat. That's how it works, whether you're a booth babe or a trophy wife.
Or put simply, by their actions shall you know them.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:There was a talk show with models (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:There was a talk show with models (Score:5, Funny)
You aren't trying hard enough.
Re:Hard to feel bad for them (Score:5, Funny)
Yup. Essentially the product that they sell is their body. Guess what profession that reminds me of?
Football?
Be thankful (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody pays us for standing around. Imagine having to do actual work.
Re: (Score:3)
Thing is, business relationship management is real work. I'm a manager of sorts in the finance industry, and part of my job is maintaining relationships with brokers. That involves, among other things, having Yahoo IM open all day, presenting a particular persona, and being prepared/able to flirt with Korean women on demand. And evidently it isn't as easy as you'd think, as there are a bunch of people at work who just can't do it and he
Re: (Score:3)
> I. REALLY. DO. NOT. WANT. TO. SEE. YOU. IN. HIGH. HEELS. AND. A. MINISKIRT.
It's an *Anonymous* Coward on Slashdot, so you cannot possibly know who he or she is, and what their looks are.
No, I don't (Score:5, Insightful)
Ever wonder what they think of their jobs?
I couldn't care less. Why is this on Slashdot again?
Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)
How do you...
Ah, yes, there's a certain form to these things, let's see...
First you write "Obligatory" and then your medium.
Ok. I can do this.
Khm.
Obligatory Penny Arcade. [penny-arcade.com]
Yes! Nailed it!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This one works too. [penny-arcade.com]
Pass the popcorn (Score:5, Insightful)
These comments should be funny...
A boycott is needed (Score:4, Insightful)
She said problems with sexism have been absent from her own work as a model. "I'm used to it," she said
Just because you are used to it doesn't mean that sexism is absent. There really needs to be a boycott of companies that use these tactics. The tech industry is probably the last major holdout in the understanding that women are not simply sex objects. Women refuse to work in the tech industry because of sexual harassment. Unfortunately, the field becomes dominated by men who don't understand it, which then perpetuates the alienation cycle.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't care about the booth babes. I care about women who aren't booth babes and who might want to work in the tech industry. That is why a boycott is needed. Get it?
Stupid if they object to it. (Score:3)
Re:Stupid if they object to it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Have any of your friends ever had to stick at a crap job because they needed the money? Are you this sympathetic? Are they still friends with you?
"Her other part-time job as a dancer" (Score:5, Insightful)
"Her other part-time job as a dancer" ... dads, it's up to you to keep your daughters off the pole. 'Nuff said.
Every career has drawbacks (Score:5, Insightful)
This career is dead-end, 100% shallow (they don't even have to know what the fuck it is they are holding) and based on their looks.
It's also an obviously annoying work-place.
However, your reviews are based on your abilitiy to smile and how you look, meaning it only requires you to do exactly ONE thing.
And they complain?
Work in mcdonalds or any other no-skill job and see how funny it is.
Fucking whiners.
"just no respect" (Score:3)
Really?
Did you engineer the product?
No? Ummm.... so you're wanting respect simply for standing up at a booth meeting people?
Re:"just no respect" (Score:5, Insightful)
There's respect for achieving great things, and then there's respect for being a fellow member of our species. I'm guessing it's the latter that they want.
Re:"just no respect" (Score:5, Insightful)
There's respect for achieving great things, and then there's respect for being a fellow member of our species. I'm guessing it's the latter that they want.
What they want is to not be treated like a sex object, after accepting a job as a sex object.
sexism (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry.These women take jobs that are sexist (their job is to arouse the customer and link sexiness and sensuality to some plastic product that isn't really sexy at all) by some sexist companies and then get ogled by the people who are supposed to ogle them.
No. Sympathy. At. All.
While I don't agree with the whole concept of booth babes (I would prefer having real people from the companies instead of models. Not scantily clad, just real people who know the product) it is very hard to sympathise with those who choose to take part in it. They knew what the job was about when they took it. If I take a job that entails wearing a Borat style Mankini then I know I will be the subject of stares (not for the same reasons as these women, but still, my crotch will garner some stares) and then it's my own stupidity to blame if I'm unhappy about being stared at...
But, again. Stupid companies. Stop using booth babes. It makes the industry look adolescent in nature, and is disrespectful to all women, and even more disrespectful to women in tech.
THIS kind of attitude is why many of us geeks can't get a date.. change it!
Re:sexism (Score:5, Insightful)
How about sympathy for those of us who are female and work in the industry, then arrive at a trade-show only to see women used purely as decoration over-and-over-and-over again ?
It's insulting, and sends the message that this is a thing for guys, that we don't really *belong* here (other than as decoration)
Re:sexism (Score:5, Insightful)
As I said (lower in my first comment), the COMPANIES should stop this because it is disrespectful to women, and in particular it's disrespectful to women in tech (those are the women who might want to go to tech trade shows, right?)
I have no sympathy for women who choose to get paid for being decorations. That's who the article is about.
The article SHOULD really focus on: "WTF is going on? It's 2012 and big tech companies still act like a horny teen boy. WTF?"
Re:sexism (Score:5, Interesting)
As it is here in Sweden. The last woman I saw in a booth at a computer convention was there because she's the CEO of a gaming company.
But it still happens, and is common everywhere except a few countries in Europe. Not cool.
Re:sexism (Score:5, Funny)
THIS kind of attitude is why many of us geeks can't get a date.. change it!
The NFL has had the same problem for years all those sexist jocks make girls dress up in skimpy outfits and jump around on the sidelines for them. If only they realized the end result is that football players can't get a date they would stop.
Re: (Score:3)
(Lost all my mod points in The Great War, so I'll post instead...)
People have to earn a buck to live in a capitalist system.
Some people whore themselves out as booth babes. Other people whore themselves out as hired lawyers by Microsoft.
I'm sure they wish they had better jobs. I'm sure they didn't think when they were 14 years old, "When I drop out of high school I wanna be a booth babe!". Something bad happened in these people's lives where "Booth Babe" is what they had to do to make ends meet.
How do I
Sexism? How about Discrimination? (Score:5, Insightful)
NEP;DR (Score:5, Insightful)
Blah blah blah feminism blah blah blah don't exploit women blah blah blah if I had a daughter blah blah blah.
In fact most of us didn't read it because there weren't enough pictures.
Sexism? Yep, misandry. (Score:4, Insightful)
You know what I find sexist: Being seen as someone who is more driven by his libido than his rational thought processes, which is the premise of employing "booth babes". Those women are actively and willingly participating in this sexist (misandrist, in this case) type of advertising and have the nerve to complain about the cases where it succeeds.
Bill Gates was once a booth babe (Score:5, Funny)
That's modeling (Score:5, Informative)
That's modeling. Below the top 100 or so supermodels, nobody is making much money. If you've spent any time in LA, you've met actress/model/waitress types, competing for low-end modeling jobs. There's trade show work, like this. There's catalog modeling ("OK, the next item is S-3721, the beige skirt, and hurry it up, we have 50 more to do before lunch"), fit modeling for designers ("it's too loose in the back, stand still while we get the pins in"), and extra work in movies ("be in makeup at 4 AM, we shoot at dawn").
In the early days of Autodesk, the company was doing about 30 trade shows a year. They hired two young women to run the trade show operation. They were both California blondes with cheerleader personalities who liked to travel. They could do a small trade show alone; they knew how to use the software and do demos. For bigger shows, they'd have assistance, but for smaller ones, it was sometimes just the two of them. It surprised some people that they weren't just decorative, and it amused them to be underestimated.
They had booth setup down. They had a space-frame booth made in Scandinavia which fit into a large rolling suitcase. (Those were rare in the early 1980s) They'd roll their cases up to a booth space, take out the space frame, grab hold of the ends, pull to unfold it, and lock it open. Setup took about two minutes. One of the women described to me the look of anger and hatred she got from union labor at Chicago's McCormick Place when doing this. She grinned back, and wasn't intimidated.
Re: (Score:3)
I'd love to hear that conversation.
Boss, Company X's product would save our company $3M a year in costs, but I told them to fuck off because THEY HAD BOOTH BABES at a TRADE SHOW!! Surely we don't need those cost savings.
Re: (Score:3)
While I agree on the stupidity of having booth babes, those women DID choose to do a job where the sole purpose is attracting men.
They were not forced into the job and they probably chose from a number of alternatives which were available to them based on their skillset and ambitions.
Let's not have the illusion that any individual has the exact same abilities, wants and needs as all other humans.
If you have a daughter and if your daughter is the type of girl who prefers to be a booth babes over having a nor
Pull that rod out of your arse (Score:5, Insightful)
"ook at my low user ID, I've been here for longer than some of you have been alive."
No one cares. I'm probably the same age as you but I don't go around pointing it out as if it somehow adds extra weight to the argument.
"I am literally white hot angry with whomever did it b"
You'll get over it.
"f you have a daughter, I expect you'll want her to be a geekgrrl. If you want that outcome, you will join me in boycotting booth babes."
Actually if I had a daughter I'd let her do whatever she wanted. Unfortunately you obviously don't realise it but you're just another one of those self righteous prudish males who seem to think that women should only do the jobs YOU approve of. Newsflash pal - its the WOMEN who get to decide whether to do it , not people like you.
I suspect in another century you'd be at the pulpit foaming at the mouth and damning any woman who dared go out with an unmarried man or wear a short skirt or speak before a man gave her permission.
You know what - Fuck you and your kind.
Re:I don't do business with lowlife scum (Score:4, Interesting)
In the case of booth babes, I doubt all these women have the luxery of picking and choosing which events they attend. I'm sure there is fierce competition for the positions and that if you want the good modelling jobs you also have to do some of shit ones too. Everyone here seems to be treating it with a "put up and shut up" attitude without thinking beyond their own limited perception. Just because a women, or a man for that matter, is a model doesn't mean they are talentless, doesn't mean they're bimbo's, doesn't mean they're stupid and most importantly, doesn't mean they are without emotions. There is also a difference between being looked at and being leered at.