Texas Plumber Sues Car Dealer After His Truck Ends Up In Videos of Syria's Front Lines (mashable.com) 347
New submitter hydrodog writes: A Texas plumber traded in his truck, which ended up in ISIS videos showing his logo and phone number. Now he is getting hundreds of harassing phone calls for 'supporting ISIS' and is suing the dealership for not taking off his information before selling it. He is seeking more than $1 million in damages. According to Mashable: "According to the complaint, filed last week, a salesman at the dealership, Edgar Vasquez, told Oberholtzer 'not to worry about the decal,' saying that peeling it off would 'blemish the vehicle paint.' 'At no time did Vasquez or any other agent, servant, or employee of the Defendant tell Plaintiff that Defendant would leave the decals on the truck, which would be transferred in some fashion to international jihadists conducting warfare upon innocents in Syria,' reads the complaint.
BRB (Score:5, Funny)
Applying Hillary Clinton logos and decals to my car and trading it in.
BRB.
Re: (Score:3)
Cool, I'll help you both!
Re:BRB (Score:4, Funny)
For maximum confusion, put Trump on one door & Clinton on the other.
Re: (Score:3)
If we're going to go through all that trouble, can't we just, you know, send them there in person? It's not too much to ask, is it? I'd help crowd-fund a project like that. We don't even have to force them or do anything illegal. We'll just send 'em on a campaign trip, all expenses paid, and maybe lose the return tickets.
The two of them could see the plight of their fellow humans, see through their differences, learn to cooperate through thick and rough times, and be great friends in the end - maybe even ha
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Fox does not report any particular fact inaccurately [without an excuse]. Instead, what it does is pick and choose which facts to report in order to imply a misleading conclusion. It also carefully chooses who to interview, so that slick, well-spoken Republicans can have a "fair and balanced" debate against the most moronic Democrat they can get their hands on. Moreover, when those Republican interviewees blatantly lie, the anchors can repeat that "[person] said [claim], and he seems very credible" over and over again. The anchor never technically lied -- [person] did say [claim] -- but the anchor is complicit in spreading the lie.
Not saying it makes it right, but you see the same thing on CNN and MSNBC for the democrats (well MSNBC doesn't try to pretend it's fair.)
Not during the news (Score:4)
Re:BRB (Score:5, Insightful)
Toyota has always had this problem (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/66d1d3ec-2f19-11e0-88ec-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3uLdcGolO
FTFA:
In a statement...Toyota added: “It is not our proudest piece of product placement. But it shows the Taliban are looking for the same qualities as any other truck buyer: quality and durability.”
That's a bold pivot to a positive message. Maybe the plumber can lean in and tell customers if he can put up with ISIS's shit, he can put up with theirs.
Re:Toyota has always had this problem (Score:5, Funny)
1. Buy a number of used Toyota trucks
2. Paint the logo of your worst competitor on them
3. Ship them to the Middle East
4. Profit !
Re: (Score:2)
Don't just put their logo on it - write "Proudly donated by ((Company Name Here)). Allahu akhbar!" under their logo ;)
Oh, and add the shahada so that some islamist group or another is sure to buy it. Plus, any sort of arabic writing looks scary to westerners. Or just get a black truck and ship it with a can of white paint and a brush so that they can do the rest ;)
Re: (Score:2)
"Blah, blah, blah...so tossing in a grenade first is OK"
And what TV show where you watching?
Re: (Score:3)
Dude it's called the news, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] and http://justiceforbabyboubou.co... [justiceforbabyboubou.com] (I suppose a flashbang is a baby grenade meant for babies), but hey if it makes you feel better, like what ever.
Re: (Score:2)
3. Ship them to the Middle East
4. Profit !
Or, more likely: 4. Be convicted of supporting terrorism.
Re: (Score:3)
> Or, more likely: 4. Be convicted of supporting terrorism.
Good point, there is only one legal way to support terrorists....pay your taxes. Then when the money is used for terrorism or to arm a terrorist group (and it will, and does), its A-OK.
Re:Toyota has always had this problem (Score:4, Interesting)
This guy traded in a Ford F250, which is a medium duty full sized pickup truck with a 300HP engine vs, the toyota Hiluz a light duty compact pickup with a 150 Hp engine. The toyota has a hard time hauling a 12.5mm machinegun, that antiaircraft gun would definitely break it's back, I'd bet the F250 doesn't last long with that thing onboard. The gun is going to have no accuracy, after the first round the whole truck is going to rocking all over the place.
Here's my version
1. Get a bunch of F250's Mossy Oak Desert Camo specials,
2. Sell to Turkish Used car Salesmen.
3. Have onboard Sync send emails with truck's GPS location to IhateTerrorists@CIA.gov every day
4. Have the trucks engine shutdown every time an A10 or F16 comes within 10Km of truck
Toyota is good for jihad (Score:5, Interesting)
In 1997, Robert Fisk interviewed Osama bin Laden in the mountains of Afghanistan, as described in his book The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East. But first, he had to get there.
Wade Hoyt is the best PR spokesman EVER! (Score:4, Interesting)
the information, once released (Score:2)
Truck traded in USA ends up in Syria how? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Truck traded in USA ends up in Syria how? (Score:5, Funny)
Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
Re:Truck traded in USA ends up in Syria how? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Truck traded in USA ends up in Syria how? (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, putting the truck in a container or car carrier is only one piece of the puzzle. They cannot ship them in via the Mediterranean Sea, as that part of Syria is controlled by Assad and other non ISIS groups. Lebanon will also not work. And I doubt Israel allows the cars to cross. Therefore, the car must go around Africa or use the Suez Canal and then to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and/or Irak. alternatively, they could go through Turkey. But Turkey is our ally and would never ever do such thing.
Re: About $1400 + import duty + paperwork (Score:2)
You do realize that the same procedure and costs apply to new cars as well? I have moved my car from US to Finland and the process sounds similar, most of the paperwork was managed by the company I hired to do the move. Over all I saved $10000 when I did the transfer. Car value in US drops much faster than in developing countries as well, it's because in US people can afford letting go of used cars and get new instead. Taxes on cheap cars are less than taxes on new cars because the tax is percentage of the
Re: (Score:2)
Shipping used vehicles overseas for sale has been going on for years. The vehicle might not sell well at home, but overseas it will.
For example, a lot of used Japanese cars get shipped to Europe, especially the UK where we also dive on the left. A friend of mine bought an R34 GTR in 2004 for 1/20th the list price, import duty and all. It was three years old and had 20k on the clock.
Re:Truck traded in USA ends up in Syria how? (Score:4, Funny)
"especially the UK where we also dive on the left."
Is the water deeper on that side?
Re: (Score:2)
That's for individuals relocating to Turkey and wanting to bring their vehicles along with them. "One car per family" isn't applicable to importers/dealers.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Same way that assault rifles sold by US company ends up in the hands of terrorists in Paris?
Re:Truck traded in USA ends up in Syria how? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh you'd be surprised at the amount of stolen cars being shipped out. The only search something like 2% of cargo containers right now, and shipping out a two stolen cars with one legit car happens quite a bit. Kind of like how here in the Americas, car thieves will buy a wrecked vehicle(usually water damaged or salvage), swipe the VIN, then slap it onto a stolen car. Which is why you check dashboard VIN against the other stamped VIN's on the vehicle parts(windows, doors, transmission, engine, body panels, subframe etc) when you buy. Hell there was a dealership here in Ontario that bought up a bunch of cheap vehicles and had them all seized because they were stolen, and they didn't double check to see if there was matching/mismatched VIN's.
If someone is runs a legit repair, seeing 4-5 VINs is common since they're removing parts from one salvage vehicle to another and then reselling a repaired vehicle. Of course, you need to check those VINs to make sure that they weren't stolen too, since chopshops do exist.
Re:Truck traded in USA ends up in Syria how? (Score:4, Informative)
I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people involved were shady and a government with a brain would follow the paper trail of this specific truck and figure out who should go to jail.
How is selling cars for export to Turkey illegal? Or selling used cars in Turkey for that matter? I'm pretty sure selling cars directly to dealers in Syria isn't illegal.
Because the Government of Turkey supports and gives aid and comfort to terrorists.
Because the US government has placed a trade embargo against against Turkey.
Except it hasn't.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
A more important question would be I f the heavy machine gun mounted on it is also US made, and how it ended up in their
It's a Russian ZU-23-2, so unlikely to be local NRA sourced.
So blatantly obvious... (Score:2)
Defendant response (Score:2)
The defendant, however, says he mentioned it 2 or 3 times.
Remove Your Own Logos (Score:2)
Who is damaged if an asset tag or logo is found on a device a decade later?
Who benefits from resale of used product a decade earlier?
Who should bear the liability? Who got the profit, of the logo in original use, of the device at auction?
"Kids, put your name on it, but remember to take your name off when you resell it." Putting that liability on the auctioneer raises insurance costs we all bear.
Re: (Score:2)
He was happy to leave the decals on there when he thought he might get some free local advertising. Ultimately though he sold the vehicle with them on there, but didn't retain any control over the vehicle post sale. It's his own fault.
Re: (Score:3)
He was happy to leave the decals on there when he thought he might get some free local advertising. Ultimately though he sold the vehicle with them on there, but didn't retain any control over the vehicle post sale. It's his own fault.
Where did you come up with that? The article clearly stated that his son attempted to remove them....
"Mr. Oberholtzer’s son started peeling off the decal on the truck that showed the phone number and name of the company, but the salesman told him to stop"
Re: (Score:3)
He was happy to leave the decals on there
No, he was not. He was in the process of removing them and was instructed by the dealership to cease their removal, and the same person who ordered him to stop also promised to have them removed so that he wouldn't have to. They failed to keep up their end of a verbal contract.
Not the only one wondering... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
...And before that the Taliban and before that practically everyone else in that region who needed a pickup truck.
That's like wondering how the Dodge Caravan became part of the Soccer Mom brand.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Here ya go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:Not the only one wondering... (Score:4, Informative)
Because they are some of the most popular vehicles in Africa and the Middle East. I have a couple of Landcruisers* and people from Africa stop and talk to me when they see me with a nearly 40 year old truck still running fine. That's the brand's reputation back home as well.
*Older models, before Toyota yuppified them and screwed them up.
Re: (Score:3)
*Older models, before Toyota yuppified them and screwed them up.
Until recently I had no idea why Americans thought this. Then I found out you don't get the good Toyotas, namely the Toyota Hilux [wikipedia.org] and J70 Land Crusier. [wikipedia.org].
The US only gets the J200 Land Cruiser Prado, which most places usually just call the Prado as the Land Cruiser is the J70. The J200 Prado is a soft, squishy mum tank with an automatic transmission meant to be driven to the shops or school and back by soft, squishy people. The J70 Land Cruiser is a rough, rugged beast with a manual transmission meant to
I guess my question is answered (Score:5, Funny)
Whenever I see another one of those Daesh videos, I have always wondered where that rogue Toyota dealership is so we can wipe it out. Who know that it was in Texas?
Re: (Score:2)
Whenever I see another one of those Daesh videos, I have always wondered where that rogue Toyota dealership is so we can wipe it out. Who know that it was in Texas?
Better wipe out all of Texas then, just to be sure.
Probably a wasted case (Score:2)
Dealers tend to have full disclosure of transactions. Normally there's a document called a "Due Bill" or a "We Owe" that specifically states that there are no promises or additions made or included that are not written on said document. The same document usually includes language stating no oral additions or deletions will be honored. At the point the seller transferred ownership of the purchase vehicle and the buyer transferred ownership of the trade, the transaction was complete.
Had the customer wanted t
I've wondered the same thing about hard drives (Score:2, Offtopic)
I've always wondered - what about the data that was on your failed drive? Do they just do a quick format? A full format? Or do they do a secure erase on the drive (overwrite every sector with zeros) before sending it back out? If the person who receives your old d
Re: I've wondered the same thing about hard drives (Score:3)
The solution is full-disk encryption.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
You live in a world without backups? How terrifying.
Re: (Score:2)
>> No. The solution is to take backups regularly and scrap any disk that fails. Bonus points if you do burn-in tests so early failures during warranty happens before you put your data on them.
No. The solution is full disk encryption and encrypted backup. Don't board a plane or pass any border without your laptop having FDE and encrypted backups
Last name? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A legal hypothetical (Score:2)
Alice wants something done and pays Bob to do it. Bob subcontract to Carol, who subcontracts to David. David doesn't do it or botches it. Alice is upset and sues Bob. Bob says "It isn't my fault, sue Carol instead". What happens?
What looks to me to be the sensible solution is that Bob petitions the court to have Carol added to the suit, but Bob can't be removed from the suit unless Alice agrees. Carol then has David added to the suit. Assuming that Alice wins, David is liable, but if he cannot or will not p
Re: (Score:2)
Alice wants something done and pays Bob to do it. Bob subcontract to Carol, who subcontracts to David. David doesn't do it or botches it. Alice is upset and sues Bob. Bob says "It isn't my fault, sue Carol instead". What happens?
Sound like what can happen with a auto drive car and just hope you are not faced with bills pilling up while the courts fight it out.
LOL, that reminds me (Score:3)
That reminds me of the guy in California named "Al Nino" who used to get hateful calls every time the weather forecasters started talking about how "El Nino" might ruin crops this year or whatever. Seriously, people would call him and curse him out for "fucking up the weather".
And also, there was that poor bastard named "Al Cayda", who's received a similar boatload of shit for the last decade or so.
Re: (Score:3)
Was he related to Mike Hunt?
Samzenpus strikes out again (Score:2)
innocents in Syria
We've already been told by all the people running for the GOP nomination to run for POTUS that there are no innocents in Syria, and roughly 30 US governors (including many who are not running for president) have said the same. Clearly, they must be right and samzenpus just did a shitty job of editing that last line.
You fail, "failure machine" samzenpus.
Re:bjoo hjoo (Score:5, Insightful)
Because the dealership specifically stopped him when he started to do so, and promised to remove it themselves before they resold it?
Re:bjoo hjoo (Score:5, Informative)
That is very likely. Dealerships contract out people all the time to install pin striping and other specialty logos. Remember all those fancy graphics on Toyota trucks in the 80s? They didn't leave the factory like that, I worked in a dealership then. These guys know exactly how to remove the old sticks from other dealerships or company logos without leaving a film or scratch. The dealer just got lazy and wholesaled it out. It probably isn't illegal (although it probably was a lie), but it is very bad business.
Re:bjoo hjoo (Score:5, Funny)
What are you trying to say? That the used car dealer was dishonest?
Wow. What is the world coming to.
Re: bjoo hjoo (Score:4, Funny)
I don't worry so much about the decals, but it's bordering on irresponsible by the dealer to not remove the plumber's machine gun before reselling the truck.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Blame ever stricter diesel emissions standards and all the extra crap required to meet those standards.
Why do you think old-model diesel Toyota LandCruisers are so popular out in the Aussie Bush? They have engines that can generally be fixed by any bush mechanic with a set of hand tools.
These days you need sophisticated computer gear just to find out what's wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
Because Land Rovers cost a LOT more. For those that don't know better I don't mean a Range Rover, I mean something simple and solid like a Defender.
Re: (Score:3)
Because Land Rovers cost a LOT more.
If only I had mod points: +1 Funny.
Unless you were being serious? ... yah, not so much.
British cars might be "simple and solid" but "reliable and easy to work on"
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You can keep the Land Rovers.
The problem with European makes is that they assume that one is going to have a garage with the exact tools needed to do upkeep, the exact spec lubricants, and that everyone who works on the vehicle has been to the factory to take training and certification courses. The concept of a "shade-tree mechanic" is not in their playbook.
But in the real world, that can't be done often. In general, American and Japanese cars are engineered to be more forgiving if the right tool isn't in
Re: (Score:3)
LOL - I suggest you set eyes on a Land Rover in the real world, you'll never compare it to a Mercedes after that.
The long story is that it's a British upgrade of a wartime Jeep and it hasn't changed a lot since.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:In the US (Score:4, Insightful)
How is this frivolous? The salesman said that they would remove the logo because the former owner would damage the paint doing it himself and failed to do so.
My first thought was that he should have worried about the logo before selling it. Evidently, he did worry about it and was supposed to be taken care of by the dealership as part of the sale (trade in is a sale in its own right but was conditioned on the purchase of a different vehicle linking both )
Or at least that is the plumber's side of the story.
Re: In the US (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have a somewhat successful business where you can afford trucks and employees, you could easily rake in 1M or more in a year. If your business goes bust or you have to invest into a media campaign or change your phone numbers or even a major decline in customers due to someone else's major fuck-up (if not plain illegal actions, trading with those nations in the US is strictly forbidden), 1M is not too little to ask.
Re: In the US (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
In small town USA? I think it was today here on /. there was an article about the entire town being up in arms against the cancer-causing, photosynthesis-stopping solar panels. The guy got not one call but thousands of calls and death threats from people. Never underestimate the stupid following sheepishly in the media frenzy a Fox News anchor can whip up.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I imagine quite a few people will see that video, around the world. It's essentially free to call anywhere in the US now, from anywhere. He might have to change the numbers just because of the harassment.
Besides, this seems like a definite case where punitive damages are in order. The dealership screwed up massively, and should be punished for it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: In the US (Score:5, Insightful)
How about the legitimate customers who were afraid to use his business because of what their neighbours might think? It takes a lot less than "Oh, is that the ISIS guy?" to kill a business in small town America. And what about the customers who tried to get through, but due to the hundreds of crank calls, couldn't get through and switched to another plumber, thereby losing current and future business?
Most small non-internet businesses are basically out of business without usable phones, and if this business is anything like my plumber, his number is stickered to every single piece of major work his company has done since 1984, and changing his number would undo all of that marketing effort. I'm certain I'm not the only one that calls the company that did the installation when I need service, at least if I'm happy with the original work -- Even if it's not a warranty issue, I know they deal with all of the brands of equipment installed, and they aren't going to claim the original installation was defective and charge me an arm and a leg fixing made-up issues with the original installation either.
$1M isn't much actual damages for current and future business, and some punitive damages would seem to be in order if the dealership failed to remove the logo as contracted, if that was part of the arrangement (which, admittedly, will likely be difficult to prove)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Contractors frequently have deals to do work with other businesses. Imagine he has a contract to take care of the plumbing for some local hotels. Hotel management gets wind of the story, and even though they know he's innocent, but in light of the negative publicity, don't want anything that could tarnish their own reputation, so they cancel his deal.
Yes, that's totally made up, but it's not difficult to imagine other scenarios.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I think you missed the part where this texan plumber's truck was featured in the Colbert Report [cc.com], a segment which was rebroadcast primetime during the emmys, therefore making the subset of people who watched the video and and connected the truck to the business into the millions.
The article also mentions that Homeland Security and the FBI met with him and advised him to carry a gun due to the hundreds of daily calls and threats he was receiving. There is cause for him to be concerned with his safety here.
Re: In the US (Score:5, Funny)
I think it's obvious where he'll be sending that million...
Re: (Score:2)
Re:In the US (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not ridiculously high. The man and his business's reputation cannot be restored to its former state and other than suffering a monetary slam, the dealer can do nothing to help with that.
Re: (Score:3)
No, because you can only blame yourself. Or al-Baghdadi, good luck in suing him.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
I think most people can appreciate that not all things with the same name are related. I remember the band Anthrax considered changing their name after 9/11 when all the anthrax letters were being sent to congress and news stations. They ultimately decided to keep their name, and that decision was regarded as a stand against terrorism (although it later turned out to be just a guy that worked for the US government, and unrelated to the 9/11 attacks).
Issis is still a nice name, I think she should keep it
Re: (Score:3)
Re:In the US (Score:5, Insightful)
His life and his family's lives, and his business have all been put at risk. Tell us why you think the amount is frivolous? Oh, you meant frivolously low.
Re: (Score:2)
There are plenty of people whose lives are actually at risk. I think I'd rather my company's name show up randomly in one Isis video rather than spent one single day in Iraq or Syria. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve anything. I'm saying he doesn't deserve what it takes an average American to earn in half their lifetime. The family of a soldier that actually dies in combat only gets like half a million.
So yes, I think twice as much as what a dead serviceman's family gets is a little too much for maybe
Re: (Score:2)
Soldier's death benefit is only $100k http://www.military.com/benefi... [military.com]
But that's completely unrelated to this story. Soldier's volunteer...I did without any expectation that should I lose my life, my family would get more than enough to bury me ($20k back in my time).
There's plenty of precedent for paying more than $1M in cases similar this.
Re: (Score:2)
His business reputation (even if he wins) is now in ruins. He will have to rename the company and start build clients again from scratch, PERHAPS a few of his steady clients will understand and move to the new business, but a lot will simply pick another plumber.
Re: (Score:2)
A. I am not convinced his life is definitely in danger. It could be, but there are people who lives are actually definitely in danger on a daily basis.
B. The families of soldiers actually killed in combat only get about half a million dollars.
I understand that soldiers volunteer to have their lives be put in harms way, but I find it very hard to believe that $1M is a fair amount of money for what I consider to be a relatively small injury compared to the sacrifice of others have had to make for much less c
Re: (Score:3)
Now that he's made the papers and news, he'll get more attention as a side-effect and get companies due to the sympathy dollar. He shouldn't change his business name at all or at least make sure the old number is forwarded to his new number. He's accomplished the goal given to him by his lawyer and, likely, crisis management/PR advisor he's hired for just this occasion. Those two are the first two calls you should make when something like this happens and both are available at fairly low prices with the lat
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So trace the calls and arrest all the violent, clueless bastards who were calling in threats.