'Are You Serious?' Hawaii Island Mayor in Disbelief after Third Vehicle Drives Straight Into Harbor (hawaiinewsnow.com) 116
Last year two different tourists — following GPS directions — drove their cars straight into the same harbor in Hawaii.
And then last weekend — at the same harbor — it happened again. "This time it was different," reports a local news station. "The driver was a local..." Multiple witnesses say the Prius was actually parked at the top of the ramp and that an enforcement officer with the Department of Land and Natural Resources told the owner she had to move it. Witnesses also said that the woman had an issue getting the car started. Eventually, she was able to start the vehicle and called out that the car was running.
Then the car went down the ramp....
More from Hawaii News Now: This follows another viral incident, captured on video in May of last year, showing another SUV sinking in the water with its passengers inside. "The GPS led them into the water," said one witness. Then, a few weeks later, it happened again. Witnesses say the driver, also an out-of-state visitor, was following their GPS directions.
"The first time I heard it, the thought in my head was, you got to be joking," said Hawaii County Mayor Mitch Roth. "The third was — are you serious? This is just another form of people not paying attention to what they're doing."
The news outlet reached out to the Department of Land and Natural Resources — and specifically to its Division of Boating & Ocean Recreation, to ask whether the harbor's boat ramp had adequate lighting and signage.
They responded that a boat ramp descending into the waters of the Pacific ocean is "hard to miss" — and called the recent incidents "operator error."
Meanwhile in Wyoming, SFGate reports that "an SUV with five people inside plunged about 9 feet deep into a 105-degree geyser at Yellowstone National Park after it 'inadvertently drove off the roadway' last Thursday, National Park Service officials said."
And then last weekend — at the same harbor — it happened again. "This time it was different," reports a local news station. "The driver was a local..." Multiple witnesses say the Prius was actually parked at the top of the ramp and that an enforcement officer with the Department of Land and Natural Resources told the owner she had to move it. Witnesses also said that the woman had an issue getting the car started. Eventually, she was able to start the vehicle and called out that the car was running.
Then the car went down the ramp....
More from Hawaii News Now: This follows another viral incident, captured on video in May of last year, showing another SUV sinking in the water with its passengers inside. "The GPS led them into the water," said one witness. Then, a few weeks later, it happened again. Witnesses say the driver, also an out-of-state visitor, was following their GPS directions.
"The first time I heard it, the thought in my head was, you got to be joking," said Hawaii County Mayor Mitch Roth. "The third was — are you serious? This is just another form of people not paying attention to what they're doing."
The news outlet reached out to the Department of Land and Natural Resources — and specifically to its Division of Boating & Ocean Recreation, to ask whether the harbor's boat ramp had adequate lighting and signage.
They responded that a boat ramp descending into the waters of the Pacific ocean is "hard to miss" — and called the recent incidents "operator error."
Meanwhile in Wyoming, SFGate reports that "an SUV with five people inside plunged about 9 feet deep into a 105-degree geyser at Yellowstone National Park after it 'inadvertently drove off the roadway' last Thursday, National Park Service officials said."
Google maps is never wrong (Score:5, Funny)
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Those directions are becoming more realistic nowadays with AI muscling in - how is AI supposed to differentiate between real geography and game geography? Hmm, I just asked for directions to Minas Tirith and Google Maps asked me to choose one of three possibilities.
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I've always wondered because for some reason or other Google Maps gets the location of a place wrong - I've tried fixing it many times by relocating where it is and maybe 1 time in 5 it takes and actually points to the correct location. But then in a couple of days it moves back to the wrong location again,
Not a huge issue since if you opened your eyes you can see it's off, but for it to be that much off is strange.
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Not to mention that you can still do things with Google Maps to hurt businesses. https://www.mobileappdaily.com... [mobileappdaily.com]
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Ironically I find that Google Maps is by far the best when it comes to public transport timetables. Every other one tends to be out of date or not have live data for delays, or just gives you plain wrong information.
The main flaw in Google Maps is that it doesn't recalculate if it notices you are late and going to miss your ride. It's tricky to do because even if you arrive 10 minutes late, the but might be 15 minutes late. It's a UI issue really, and getting better as more services have live positioning da
Not surprising (Score:3)
With as incompetent so many people are at driving, why would this be surprising? The GPS told them where to go, and that's where they went. Forget about paying attention. That's for suckers.
Re:Not surprising (Score:4, Informative)
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Probably the car was stopped there because the driver was confused about following the line on the screen. But was then instructed to get moving ... so proceeded to follow the line.
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Here in Adelaide, South Australia we have a really cool bus system called O-Bahn, it a dedicated bus track down the Torrens river valley, with a automatic guidance system based on outrunner wheels. At each end there are masses of signs saying do not enter etc, but at least once a year, someone does, and ends up falling down the centre of the concrete tracks.
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With as incompetent so many people are at driving, why would this be surprising? The GPS told them where to go, and that's where they went. Forget about paying attention. That's for suckers.
Death by GPS has been a thing for years now.
But yes, people seriously don't pay attention when they're driving. Too busy doing important things like stuffing their face or playing with their phones. Automatic transmissions, automatic emergency braking, lane assist, so on and so forth... they've been taught that they don't need to pay attention because the car will magically save them from anything.
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And some people are just stupid. I know a woman who, if the GPS told her to drive off a cliff, she'd point the car in that direction and press the accelerator. If she survived, she'd just complain "I was just following the GPS." She's now in her 60s or early 70s, and I have no idea how she's made it this long.
That's why we can't have flying cars. (Score:5, Funny)
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Actually, it would not happen that way. Flying cars would clearly require pilot qualifications or would need to be completely autonomous. The first practically kills the idea, the second is not ready and will not be ready for a long time to come.
Ever see Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Average American drivers are positively sane and skilled compared to the drivers I encounter in Southeast Asia.
Re: Ever see Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan? (Score:3)
Just because you are somewhere with different rules for driving that you don't understand does not mean that they are insane. If you were trying to drive there, they all thought that *you* were the insane driver. Maybe that's why all the comments have been about crazy US drivers...
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Most nations, even those that are not signatories, use traffic signals and signage as per the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals [wikipedia.org], or signals and signs that are very close to the same. So, even without reading the local driver's handbooks, the basics of the traffic rules are very easy to discern. And yes... having been to some of those aforementioned countries in Southeast Asia, including a couple that ARE signatories; I can say from personal experience that the locals flout the rules a lot more
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This exactly. When the locals have a term for driving the wrong way (counterflow!) as an example, you have to know the rules are more like suggestions. The laws and rules of driving here are routinely disregarded, the vehicle operators themselves often display a startling inability to control their machines and so on.
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I recall seeing a ... travel documentary, I think, where a driver in India was explaining the rules of the road as, "His car is bigger, so he goes first. My car is bigger than that one, so I go first." I can't recall what would happen if two identical cars met each other.
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Then you go somewhere like Moscow, where they have all the appropriate signage and more or less congruent rules of the road but drivers really don't give a flying flip and do whatever the heck they think they can get away with and still survive. Three lanes become five at rush hour, driving so close to each other that even at 100 kph you could touch the next car through an open window.
In all honesty though, although traffic insanity like Moscow, Lima or Delhi looks horrendously dangerous to us spoiled Amer
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It's mostly because of the dashcams, you can't get insurance in most of Russia without paying a ridiculous price unless you install and use one.
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Sorry for the double post.
Having said that, yeah, some of the crashes are truly spectacular because of the speed they drive at and the percentage of people who will not hesitate to drive while drunk/high/stoned/generally fucked-up.
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Perhaps you would have to see it to understand it. They drive the wrong way, pass 3 or 4 abreast, stop sideways in traffic, all while often showing an inability to control the vehicle that seems to be from lack of time at the controls. It's not that the rules are different, it's that the rules are disregarded coupled with about 1/3 of the drivers lacking basic skills.
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> If you were trying to drive there, they all thought that *you* were the insane driver.
"silly yank, stopping for red lights and pedestrians!"
Re: That's why we can't have flying cars. (Score:2)
And flying debris from all the filthy unkempt areas littered with trash ftom our new "who cares" people will go flying in people's eyes, windows, cars...
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Actually, it would not happen that way. Flying cars would clearly require pilot qualifications or would need to be completely autonomous. The first practically kills the idea, the second is not ready and will not be ready for a long time to come.
The practicality of a license filters out most but not all the idiots. Some pilots are just reckless [youtube.com].
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Sure. But it kills the numbers.
Re: That's why we can't have flying cars. (Score:2)
But maybe we can have self-floating cars ?
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We can't make Darwin awards too easy to get, that will degrade its prestige and value!
and people are worried about self-driving cars (Score:5, Insightful)
The media never reports on cars that don't do anything interesting - we only hear about it when it's unusual. So you can't rely on the media to get an accurate idea of how things are going, they only report the extremes.
The only reason the public is concerned about the safety of self-driving cars is that's the only time the media reports on them is when they have a problem. But right here we can see that people also have some pretty extreme driving problems too. (and probably more than self-driving cars)
Re:and people are worried about self-driving cars (Score:4)
Self-driving cars have probably been safer than people as drivers for a while. They still have function issues. In the end, people will have to realize that most of them suck as drivers and self-driving will be the future. But that will still take a while.
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Good luck. I've known some really crazy drivers who thought THEY were the safe driver. (Including one who looked around to look at the person they were talking to.)
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Liability and insurance will leave them no choice.
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I was involved in a survey with Department of Main Roads 20 years ago. It turned out that some 90% of males believed they were above average drivers. The same proportion responded that it would be likely that they are involved in an accident at some point and it will be the other person's fault. Women faired better, but it was still like 80something% thought they were hot shit behind the wheel.
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How did the self driving cars respond?
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There's always the line:
"According to statistics, 75% of motorists feel they have 'above average' driving skills, which means that at least 25% of them are wrong."
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It is probably a lot worse, because quite a few of above average drivers will be above average because they understand how limited their skills are and hence are careful.
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There's always the line:
"According to statistics, 75% of motorists feel they have 'above average' driving skills, which means that at least 25% of them are wrong."
The Dunning-Kruger effect comes into play whenever we self assess. Those least competent will rate themselves highly where as those who are competent will doubt themselves.
To me the line between a good driver and a bad one is that a bad one will never, ever admit that they were wrong or made a mistake. Hence they keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Good drivers own up to their mistakes, it's the first step in making sure you don't make the same mistake again.
It's OK if you fuck up (hope
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Don't forget that it varies from day to day. For me, on a good day, well rested, nothing on my mind, I do a good job driving, then other days I'm tired, pissed off or such and I'm a crappy driver.
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Yep. Dunning-Kruger effect at work. Incidentally, high intelligence is no protection. Somewhere around the same percentage of university professors also believes they are way above average. Talk about high-functioning idiots.
As a side-note, I know I am a bad driver. I was never in an accident, but I have some appreciation what level of control of the situation I actually have. When I moved to a different city with excellent public transport, I gave up driving altogether.
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I wonder if at least part of the problem is that people think the bar for 'average' is much lower than it actually is? If they think the 'average' guy is the one we see on the news stuck in a ditch, and they don't tend to get stuck in a ditch, then they're above average.
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Once again I am in the minority. That's OK, I'm used to it by now. I'm a shitty driver, I hate driving, and even though I haven't had an accident since 1995 that's as much luck as anything else. My wife is a much better driver, I really don't understand why the hell she makes me do almost all the driving unless it's just an excuse to swear at me.
When Level 5 driving is a real thing I'm getting it. Let her swear at the autopilot all she wants.
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Self-driving cars have probably been safer than people as drivers for a while.
People keep saying this and yet I have never found myself having any of the issues that the self driving cars have. And yet they are safer than me?
No, I think what you should be saying is the self-driving cars have an average safety record that is comparable or better than the average human record.
But even that is arguable. Just because a few people drag down the average by a LOT, does not mean that the median driver is worse than any average (mean/median/mode) of self-driving.
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But right here we can see that people also have some pretty extreme driving problems too. (and probably more than self-driving cars)
Self-driving cars doing the same thing [imgur.com] humans do [youtube.com] when driving [imgur.com].
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Those are all Teslas, and they're explicitly not ready for prime-time. Waymo's are supposed to be much better.
That said, he was talking about rate, so posting a few incidents doesn't say much about the rate at which said incidents occur, which is the main point.
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Banning shitty media, doesn’t solve the problem of ignorant kids being “raised” by incompetent parents who also can’t drive without technology telling them how to.
That requires a level of personal sacrifice well beyond most scorned single parents raising kids these days, can afford.
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Yes, considering that most people don't know how to make change without having the cash register tell them how much is coming back. Those of us who still do, know how to make change without bothering to work out how much change to give.
Its one hell of an enigma when the same Generation that struggles to make change, can calculate the difference between a shitty 20% tip and a decent 35% tip on the fly in their head within milliseconds.
Math skills are apparently relative.
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Truth. But making change isn't really math in the usual sense. It's taking enough pennies to reach the next nickle or dime, from there to a quarter then up to an even dollar. I can make change in a few seconds without ever needing to know what the total amount will be, and not caring. It's not that kids today can't do that, they've never been taught, probably because their trainers don't know either.
Re: and people are worried about self-driving cars (Score:2)
I'd have to argue that people driving into the ocean there no longer qualifies as unusual, yet it's still being reported on.
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We can't make Darwin awards too easy to get, that will degrade its prestige and value.
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> The only reason the public is concerned about the safety of self-driving cars is that's the only time the media reports on them is when they have a problem.
I have no interest in the news about who's self driving car sucessfully managed to navigate to Costco today. I'm afraid I really cant be arsed about that. Perhaps its a generational thing? Seeing as the younger generation wish to know who on their freinds list has taken a shower, which which shampoo and then what they made for breakfast as well as
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Ban GPS (Score:5, Funny)
This is why we need to not use GPS, or any type of computer. I only use a computer cause I'm addicted, it's not my fault. I'm not responsible.
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It's handy though, if used correctly. I always scope out my route first before I leave, not as a last minute thing. Which helps because most of the time it's a pain to get GPS to work with the rental car anyway. Then, if for some reason there's a detour, I can still use the GPS, but if everything is going smooth I can navigate without it's help. Sometimes I ignore the GPS because it's plainly trying to confuse me - like it told me to leave the freeway and take a frontage road for two miles then get back
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No. Ban poor drivers. Diving skills, situational awareness, and reflexes can all be trained and/or learned. If a driver declines to be competent... and yes they do in fact decline and refuse to be competent... then take their licenses away (And, of course, implement stringent and harsh penalties for driving without a valid license. Doing so should be treated as the same sort of malicious and willful negligence as firing off a gun in some random direction with no care for what's downrange.). Driving is
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GPS is what makes people into bad drivers in the first place. They just can't imagine driving without it. Too scary!
Taking away GPS will fix it. Same as taking away social media will fix another particularly bad behaviour.
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With that UID you're probably old enough to remember seeing people trying to read the map at the same time that they're driving down the expressway if you think about it. I remember seeing idiots with the map spread out completely in front of them while their spouse held the wheel from the passenger seat.
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Google Maps is crazy easy to update. Literally anyone can report an error. The few I have submitted over the years have been corrected quickly.
The problem is not all GPS use Google Maps data. There is a street at the end of my block that is one-way inbound, which makes my street a no-outlet. During tourist season we see a steady stream of out-of-towners drive down to it, then make a u-turn and drive back up. Once when I was out doing yard work, a guy on a Harley with big speakers went by (because you n
And you want to give people like that AI? (Score:2)
The LLM-variant prone to hallucinations? Good luck!
short form is: (Score:2)
YCFS
That is all.
Do these same people take a left going the wrong way on a one-way street too? (probably)
Video of Previous Incidents (Score:5, Informative)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Not the first time...not going to be the last (Score:3)
We are so quick to blame computers. But I recall paper maps used to have 'errors' that drove people into buildings and lakes. But we've been so focused on technology that we have forgotten the lessons of the past. If it can go wrong, it will.
Even a few years back, cars were getting stuck in the mud due to a maps error - despite passing large signs stating that they should not go this way. The problem isn't so much that the technology (or even paper maps) is wrong. The problem is that critical thinking and observation skills are no longer taught.
And, it seems, the next US administration will go to great lengths to not teach those very skills that could save lives.
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I also remember paper maps, and your "navigator," if you were lucky enough to have one, sat in the front passenger seat. You did whatever they told you because it was easiest to just drive and let them do the thinking.
Then we replaced the meatbag with a computer and now all of sudden it's the driver's fault for following directions unquestioningly.
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Install a camera there! (Score:2)
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Thanks for that. Terribly funny stuff (I don't know why though). No karma, but that was the best laugh of the day.
Blindly following ... (Score:2)
Last year two different tourists — following GPS directions — drove their cars straight into the same harbor in Hawaii. And then last weekend — at the same harbor — it happened again. "This time it was different," reports a local news station. "The driver was a local..."
Many of these people probably vote too.
Much of the globe is addicted to a new drug. (Score:4, Interesting)
I broke the cycle of addiction a few years ago when I accidentally dropped my Samsung Galaxy Z-Flip on the first day of a two-week trip out of town. I was in the greater Chicago area and only vaguely remembered my way around. I grew up there part of my life, that shouldn't have happened. It took three days for me to figure out where I was going; for that three days, I had to sit and think for five, ten minutes at the start of every trip. When my ingrained memory of the region's roadmap returned, it was quite the revelation.
Now, I'm the IT geek that only barely tolerates the cell phone; and only because I can create a hotspot with it. Oh, and I do like the original "Cellular Telephone" thing - it's like a telephone without wires, is that sci-fi or what? I felt my brain actively change as the addiction faded. I'll admit that even now I miss playing Empires and Puzzles (I was Bannor of the Bloodguard, a group I created). I intentionally swore off all gaming more complex than Klondike or Minesweeper - and I barely touch those.
I'm only just now returning to /. and only from a desktop client. If I could find a flip-phone that did hotspot on the T-Mobile network, I'd be on that like a pit-bull on a steak. I don't need a (quasi-) GP computing device in my pocket and I sure don't want it thinking for me or even augmenting my native skills. That is addiction and causes existing highly desirable skills to atrophy.
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The other side of the coin, I was perpetually getting lost driving before Google Maps. Now I almost never get lost.
For those of us with poor senses of direction Google Maps has been a game changer. It's even better when traveling abroad as it makes getting around when you cant read the signs infinitely easier.
That doesnt mean one should blindly follow it like a dummy though.
Another spooky point is (Score:4, Insightful)
Democracy is not good (Score:2)
It's merely the least bad solution given the propensity of humans to be evil. The bible promises that one day Jesus will reign, but also warns that before then an 'anti-Christ' will deceive the world into accepting his rule. Test for the real Jesus? He will descend from the skies and cause the Mount of Olives to split in two, as predicted by a prophecy which showed knowledge of an existing fault line that the prophet couldn't have known about.
Fucking Retards (Score:2)
In All Fairness (Score:3)
In all fairness, they certainly didn't miss the boat ramp.
Now I understand! (Score:1)
Multiple witnesses say the Prius
No need to read any further!
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I push down the lever on the toaster, and wait for the toast to pop up. Appliance car works the same.
Take It Away (Score:1)
Take away people's ability to drive. Make it much harder to get a driver's license. Make it so that if you ever drive a vehicle without a license, you got to jail. If you cause an accident of any kind, your license is revoked, and you must start over with driving school like a teenager to get it back. If your license is revoked, also confiscate any cars you own - you shouldn't even be allowed to own a car without a driver's license.
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No. However, people act like they have a right to drive when they don't and never did. They should be reminded of that.
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No. However, people act like they have a right to drive when they don't and never did. They should be reminded of that.
They do however have a right to vote. Please post a link to the campaign website of anyone running for office with the ideas you've posted to Slashdot as part of their platform.
If you can't find a single candidate anywhere in the country who shares your view then I think I can safely ignore your Slashdot postings, you're never going to change anything. It's easy to spew nonsense on the internet, harder to get elected while spewing nonsense, but clearly not impossible. I await evidence of anyone running for
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A majority of people literally throw their right to vote away by not using it. And nothing you say will change the fact that driving has never been a right. It has always been merely a privilege. One that most humans on this planet can't even do properly.
Same situation (Score:3)
If you arrived there in the dark I wouldnâ(TM)t be surprised if someone drove in the lake. It was a pretty good trap. An intelligent person, with no sign that the road ends there, could easily end up there.
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There have been repeated incidents of people driving off the Washington State Ferry ramps, in spite of the cable festooned with signs that they string across before the ferry leaves.
Why we shouldn't give AI to everyone (Score:2)
Shows the dangers of GPS spoofing. (Score:3)
It is apparently not uncommon for there to be GPS spoofing in areas around commercial ocean going traffic. More specifically, in areas where sanctioned trades or illegal activities are taking place. I recall there were issues regarding illegal dredging [thediplomat.com] for sand in south east Asia.
I assume there was no GPS spoofing in Hawaii but it does highlight our reliance on GPS and demonstrates how GPS spoofing could be a huge problem. Perhaps vehicles should detect inaccuracies in GPS and act accordingly. Is there any testing being performed to measure the impacts of spoofed GPS on self-driving vehicles? Such information could prove interesting.
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But these examples were based on simple stupidity, when you as a sane driver notice the road ending in water you stop.
There's another simple issue here. (Score:2)
These folks shouldn't be driving in the first place. It's not like the 2nd Amendment, there's no constitutional right for people to be able to drive. Federal law should be able to come in and harmonize laws governing who can and cannot operate a vehicle.
A messed up society (Score:2)
We have created a society where it is impossible for many to survive without being able to drive. It has fundamentally disadvantaged those who can't (too young, too old or disabled, included epileptics). One of the strongest cases for automatic driving is that it will restore those people's position in society; bring it on SOON!
Dumb drivers blindly following GPS.... (Score:2)
How do they blame that on GPS? (Score:2)
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I don't blame the GPS (Score:2)
A common cognitive bias with mapping. (Score:2)
Easily fixed! (Score:2)
Autonomous vehicles also use GPS and electronic maps and they always work perfectly. Simply mandate that human GPS devices use the same maps as the JohnnyCabs.
I had a Prius (prime 2020) (Score:2)
That was the bad car I ever had. Every piece of software in it had bugs you didn't believe can go to a car .
I once see my parked car, with my key in my pocket just start out of now where, fortunaly, it does't put it self in drive.
Re: There is error in map (Score:2)
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The rhetoric this election cycle has gotten ridiculous.
Democrats - "If Trump is reelected it will be the end of Democracy and they'll throw all the liberals in jail!!!!"
Republicans - "If Biden is reelected it will be the end of Democracy and they'll throw all the conservatives in jail!!!!"
Everyone else - "Please give us a candidate worth voting for, the 'Lesser Evil' is now just too evil for us to support any more."
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Watching the traffic somewhere like Bangalore an American would assume that very quickly everyone who drives a car should be dead. Instead the drivers are paying complete attention to the road, because there's no other possibility and they generally get home safely.